New issue
Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.
By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.
Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account
Adjust income for MPs #193
Conversation
90th income percentile is probably more appropriate for highly skilled individuals (which I hope MPs would be!).
This might be a good place to add a reference - do you know of a link that backs up the Singapore findings? |
Presumably a relevant factor is whether you continue to have another job as well, as many MPs do. Or positions on boards etc. |
There probably a few. I found: "The Dynamics of Legislative Rewards Among other things, this showed Singapore having clearly the highest legislative reward as ratio of factry workers salary |
Quote from the above: “If Singapore is to continue to have able men Singapore is the greatest champion of civil |
Actually I just checked the stats and UK MPs are already at about 95th percentile: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/276204/table3-1a.pdf Perhaps 95 percentile is appropriate? |
Ah, that's very interesting, and a good reference point. Makes sense to stick it where it is, but link future changes to average income. I wonder if it should be a multiplier of average, rather than a percentile, as that might mean that keeping inequality low is an incentive as well. BTW, if you want to edit the proposal, you can do so on the files changed tab: https://github.com/openpolitics/manifesto/pull/193/files |
Median wage is a better benchmark as it ties MP incentives to the median (median is better than the average, because it rewards reductions in wage inequality)
Good idea. In fact median is even better than average I think since it incentivises reduction in inequality more. |
👍 from me then |
I assume the 3x median wage is around where they are now? |
@jimmytidey probably needs a separate PR, but I'd say that if an MP has other jobs (i.e. is not full time) then they should reduce their MP salary proportionately. Also they should be required to declare that they are standing as a part time MP during their campaign. Voters should know what they are getting! |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom
|
@jimmytidey yes, we already have a section on http://openpolitics.org.uk/manifesto/democracy.html#mps-pay-and-expenses about second jobs - maybe that could be enhanced in a separate PR? |
I like the link to median wages. But reducing MPs wage if they have a second job simply encourages more career politicians rather than enticing expert GPs or teachers or academics etc from bringing their expertise into Parliament. Rather than 'conflicts of interest' I like MPs keeping up to date with the latest information in their particular field and staying qualified in that trade. Much better than spads parachuted into safe MP seats. |
@PaulJRobinson - I don't think you can be doing your job fully as an MP if you are earning a second income. Stay up to date with your field for sure (I consider that part of the MP job!) but if an MP is actually working for anyone else other than the British public I would expect an MP to a) declare it and b) take the salary cut from not being a full time MP. Just IMHO of course. But what we don't want are MPs who are focused on earning money elsewhere and just turn up for expensive dinners and the occasional vote. That isn't representing your constituency properly. |
Ok. If we don't want MPs having second jobs (read second incomes) that's with kind regards, about.me/pauljrobinson On 10 July 2014 11:40, Mike Anderson notifications@github.com wrote:
|
I would be in favour of preventing MPs having second jobs (I think I've said that before). Let's do that in a different PR though and keep this one on the simpler matter of the wage link. |
I think the standard argument is that being an MP is rather a weird job, in that it's highly likely you will be sacked after 5 years. Having not practised as, say, an architect for 5 years, even if you've kept up, could easily be fatal to your career. So if you want people with real jobs to stand in marginal seats, you have to let them carry on at least part time work. If it was up to me I'd leave it up to the MP to work out their balance. If they aren't serving the constituency they won't win the next vote. Not sure I have a view on whether pay from your second job should be deducted from your MP salary. Obviously conflicts of interest are another thing. |
I'd rather pay them for a period after being voted out to give them time to get back into work, than have them split their time while they are supposed to be representing their constituents. |
I will make a proposal in another PR shortly so we can take this conversation there and keep this one on-topic for the actual pay rate. |
Sorry! My fault for getting side-tracked. I'm a 👍 for this as it stands. |
@jimmytidey I guess I agree... though on the flipside having been an MP is a pretty impressive accomplishment that I think would enhance most professional CVs. If the concern is "professional people aren't incentivised enough" then maybe MP salary should just be set higher to compensate. Maybe 5x median? In the grand scheme of things, MP salary is trivial to the nation's finances, but getting the right people and the right behaviour when they are in office is extremely important. |
👍 but could we add a footnote with the median wage at present, and the MPs salary that would represent to make it easier for people to see what that means in practice? |
14-day review period complete. Merging. |
My counter proposal is that we will get better MPs if we pay them less. I propose we advocate cutting MPs' salaries to £50,000 and match them to an index of public sector workers.
On the other points mentioned, I'm afraid Singapore is an awful example of democracy with a de facto single party state. Ironically, the salary issue there is more relevant because the party's selection of candidates really is competitive. But quality according to the PM doesn't necessarily translate into value for the population. |
In short, if you reduce the salary, you remove some of the people who just want to be important and make space for more people who just want to do good Your argument that you can't get good people for low salaries suggests that loads of people in the public sector and in charities are just there because they're not good enough to get a better paid job |
So you'd argue that by lowering the salary, you actively (and intentionally) disincentivise those in society who would get higher-paid jobs elsewhere? |
You would actively disincentivise people for whom the money is an incentive. There are plenty of professionals who would take the pay cut if it's important enough to them. Lawyers and doctors already do so. Yet many people do much more directly beneficial jobs for others for less money because they are driven by the good they are doing. These are the people being squeezed out of politics by others who want to be important. Your cash marketability is clearly not a useful measure of how good an MP you are. And it often isn't the case in many jobs - just look at the banking system. |
Rather than making MP salary a fixed amount, peg it to their prior salary (not necessarily at 100%; could also be at 90% or 110%, say). This doesn't remove the risk of people using elected office gateway to better things elsewhere, but it should help remove any immediate 'motivated by money' issue, with an interesting side effect of encouraging people to actually get some real world experience, rather than just going directly into politics. |
This proposal is open for discussion and voting. If you are a contributor to this repository (and not the proposer), you may vote on whether or not it is accepted. How to voteVote by entering one of the following symbols in a comment on this pull request. Only your last vote will be counted, and you may change your vote at any time until the change is accepted or closed.
Proposals will be accepted and merged once they have a total of 2 points when all votes are counted. Votes will be open for a minimum of 7 days, but will be closed if the proposal is not accepted after 90. Votes are counted automatically here, and results are set in the merge status checks below. ChangesIf the proposer makes a change to the proposal, no votes cast before that change will be counted. |
90th income percentile is probably more appropriate for highly skilled individuals (which I hope MPs would be!).
Singapore is a good example of a country that pays politicians / civil servants well, and gets excellent outcomes as a result.