Skip to content

Say 2.4.2 is not applicable #626

New issue

Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.

By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.

Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account

Open
wants to merge 8 commits into
base: main
Choose a base branch
from
Open

Say 2.4.2 is not applicable #626

wants to merge 8 commits into from

Conversation

bruce-usab
Copy link
Contributor

@bruce-usab bruce-usab commented Apr 15, 2025

Update guidance for 2.4.2 saying it is not applicable to software and to recommend an alternate requirement better fitting to window titles, per minutes 4/10, 4/17, and 4/24.

Link to anchor of section in deploy preview.

For convenient reference, a few lines from the work statement:

  • Where known, give examples of some success criteria which may not be applicable to a particular non-web technology as needed.
  • Suggested changes to success criteria normative language to more clearly align with non-web software and document technologies.
    • NOTE: “suggested changes to success criteria” would not be suggestions to change WCAG itself, but instead to provide language more meaningful in non-web contexts.

This PR is offered as an alternative to PR #624 which asserts that 2.4.2 is fine as-is.

Updated following 5/1 meeting, keeping as much phrasing from 2.4.2 of November 2024 as possible.

Update comments-by-guideline-and-success-criterion.md
Copy link

netlify bot commented Apr 15, 2025

Deploy Preview for wcag2ict ready!

Name Link
🔨 Latest commit aa6e56f
🔍 Latest deploy log https://app.netlify.com/sites/wcag2ict/deploys/681e425a2c43a30008a46eba
😎 Deploy Preview https://deploy-preview-626--wcag2ict.netlify.app
📱 Preview on mobile
Toggle QR Code...

QR Code

Use your smartphone camera to open QR code link.

To edit notification comments on pull requests, go to your Netlify site configuration.

@bruce-usab bruce-usab marked this pull request as ready for review April 15, 2025 21:51
@bruce-usab bruce-usab changed the title Substitute Product for Page Titled Say 2.4.2 is not applicable Apr 15, 2025
@bruce-usab bruce-usab linked an issue Apr 16, 2025 that may be closed by this pull request

<div class="note wcag2ict">

As described in the WCAG intent, the name of a [non-web software application](#software) or [non-web document](#document) (e.g. document, media file, etc.) is a sufficient title if it describes the topic or purpose.</div>
As described in the WCAG intent, the product name of a [non-web software application](#software) is a sufficient title if it provides descriptive identification.</div>
<div class="note wcag2ict">

Although not required by this success criterion, ensuring that individual windows or screens have a title (where that title describes the topic or purpose) addresses the user needs identified in the Understanding Success Criterion 2.4.2 Intent section, and is generally considered a best practice.</div>

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Sorry but this proposed change solves nothing. True there are a few products that have descriptive identification or name -- but most names are not descriptive. If this is meant to be double-speak for "any name is considered descriptive of a software product because it is the name of the product" then the requirement becomes "The name of the product must be the name of the product" and it is impossible to not meet the SC. So why have it. This is a twisting of the meaning of the SC to solve the problem but only ends up with a nonsense SC that cannot be failed.

@bruce-usab bruce-usab marked this pull request as draft May 1, 2025 13:47
@bruce-usab bruce-usab moved this from Todo to In Progress in WCAG2ICT Note Update May 1, 2025
@bruce-usab bruce-usab moved this from In Progress to Ready for TF to review in WCAG2ICT Note Update May 1, 2025
@bruce-usab bruce-usab marked this pull request as ready for review May 1, 2025 22:15
@bruce-usab
Copy link
Contributor Author

bruce-usab commented May 8, 2025

During call 5/8, per our conversation, I changed the short names (handles) for the two use cases. As I described during the call, this PR aims to change as little as possible from the 15 November 2024 Group Note. For example, the notes have not been updated (regardless that they discuss title, and not name) because (while they might be improved) they are not incorrect.


This applies directly as written, and as described in [Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 2.4.2](https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/Understanding/page-titled#intent) replacing “Web pages” with “non-web documents or software”.
This applies directly as written, and as described in [Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 2.4.2](https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/Understanding/page-titled#intent) replacing “Web pages” with “non-web documents”.
Copy link
Contributor

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Since we also are replacing "Page" with "Document" in the short name, we should also describe this.

Suggested change
This applies directly as written, and as described in [Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 2.4.2](https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/Understanding/page-titled#intent) replacing “Web pages” with “non-web documents”.
This applies directly as written, and as described in [Intent from Understanding Success Criterion 2.4.2](https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG22/Understanding/page-titled#intent) replacing "Page" with "Document" in the short name and “Web pages” with “non-web documents”.


This should **not** be applied directly as written to non-web software. For software, direct application of 2.4.2 Page Titled is problematic. The following criterion is recommended as a substitute:

**2.4.2 <INS>[Software Named]</INS>:** <INS>**[[Non-web software](#software)]**</INS> have names that provide description identification.
Copy link
Contributor

@maryjom maryjom May 9, 2025

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Need to show the replacement markup on all of the text. This also gives us liberty to make the verbiage singular rather than plural.

Suggested change
**2.4.2 <INS>[Software Named]</INS>:** <INS>**[[Non-web software](#software)]**</INS> have names that provide description identification.
**2.4.2 <INS>[Software Named]:** [Non-web software](#software) has a name that provides description identification.]**</INS>


###### Applying SC 2.4.2 Page Titled to Non-Web Software

This should **not** be applied directly as written to non-web software. For software, direct application of 2.4.2 Page Titled is problematic. The following criterion is recommended as a substitute:
Copy link
Contributor

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

The reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.

Suggested change
This should **not** be applied directly as written to non-web software. For software, direct application of 2.4.2 Page Titled is problematic. The following criterion is recommended as a substitute:
This cannot apply directly as written to non-web software. The following criterion is recommended as a substitute:

I am uncomfortable with this strong statement here and would advocate for softer language. For rationale, see #639.

As a global thought, I would agree that if we know why something is problematic or cannot apply directly as written we should explain it.

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment
Projects
Status: Ready for TF to review
Development

Successfully merging this pull request may close these issues.

2.4.2 Page Titled (RE: Error spotted in WCAG2ICT)
4 participants