Temporal issues (first thread)

jie zheng edited this page Aug 14, 2015 · 2 revisions

part of Three threads about temporal issues

Subject: the right way to do stages


From: Barry Smith phismith@buffalo.edu Date: Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:04 PM To: Alan Ruttenberg alanruttenberg@gmail.com Cc: Stefan Schulz stefan.schulz@medunigraz.at, Werner Ceusters ceusters@buffalo.edu, Mark Ressler mark@markressler.com

E = for some A = for all

fetus is a non-rigid continuant universal, sub-universal of the rigid universal human being fetus-stage is an occurrent universal (all occurrent universals are rigid)  history and temporal part are as defined in the BFO 2.0 Draft Document t can be a temporal instant or temporal interval

x instance_of fetus at t =def.

Eyzt'(fetus-stage(y) & z history_of x & y temporal_part_of z & y occupy t & t part_of t’)  

This is an alternative account using Werner's 'agent_of' (here called unique_major_participant_in) instead of histories:

x unique_major_participant_in p at t =def. material_entity(x) & x participates_in p at t & Ay((y participates_in p at t & material_entity(y) à y part_of x at t)   x instance_of fetus at t =def. Eyt'(fetus-stage(y) & y occupy t & t part_of t’ & x unique_major_participant_in y at t)  


From: Alan Ruttenberg alanruttenberg@gmail.com Date: Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:48 PM To: Barry Smith phismith@buffalo.edu Cc: Stefan Schulz stefan.schulz@medunigraz.at, Werner Ceusters ceusters@buffalo.edu, Mark Ressler mark@markressler.com

Looks like you don't need t' as it is free and there isn't any t that isn't part of some other t', minimally itself. You need somewhere that fetus is_a organism.

In the next OWL prototype I check in this is the universal 'human that lives until fetus' that is_a human Also there will be a 'computational artifact individual'  (i.e. OWL individual that doesn't represent any BFO particular, but which can be used to make temporally restricted assertions on human) currently called 'human as fetus'. Assertions on 'human as fetus' are defined to only hold during the times that the human participates in fetus stage. Because of this, and because 'human as fetus' isn't even a universal, nor the OWL individuals that are its membersBFO particulars,  'human as fetus' is not even a subclass of human.

unique_major_participant is not better than agent_of, IMO, so I'm not bothering to review the below. (sorry Werner).

-Alan


From: Barry Smith phismith@buffalo.edu Date: Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 2:00 PM To: Alan Ruttenberg alanruttenberg@gmail.com Cc: Stefan Schulz stefan.schulz@medunigraz.at, Werner Ceusters ceusters@buffalo.edu, Mark Ressler mark@markressler.com

Even better That won't do, since an embryo is not a fetus BS


From: Alan Ruttenberg alanruttenberg@gmail.com Date: Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 2:04 PM To: Barry Smith phismith@buffalo.edu Cc: Stefan Schulz stefan.schulz@medunigraz.at, Werner Ceusters ceusters@buffalo.edu, Mark Ressler mark@markressler.com

Lost you. can you expand on what you are concluding and how? By my definitions (which strictly extend yours): Every human that lives until fetus is also a human that lives until embryo. No 'human as embryo' is also a 'human as fetus'. I didn't use the terms 'fetus' and 'embryo' (yet - they may turn out to be reasonable labels for something) -Alan


From: Barry Smith phismith@buffalo.edu Date: Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 2:10 PM To: Alan Ruttenberg alanruttenberg@gmail.com

What we are trying to say is x instance of fetus at t This is a different assertion from x instance of human that lives until fetus at t (The difference is incidentally wildly problematic from an epistemological point of view) BS  


From: Alan Ruttenberg alanruttenberg@gmail.com Date: Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:46 PM To: Barry Smith phismith@buffalo.edu

There is no "at t" in my assertion. As far as I know, in the world we live in, either both are true or neither.  "we are doing ontology not epistemology"

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