So, hello and Happy New Year. Thanks for joining first session in 2024. This is our 61st session
in total. Let's see how far we get this year. Hey, Ash Rash, thanks for joining. Today I
just started the recording, started doing a brief, brief intro. So, I don't know how
everyone feels about after, you know, the break, coming back to things. I always need
a bit of a refresher. And something that I've been doing the last few days is going through
old stuff. So, seeing what issues we have outstanding, what pull requests there are,
and also the ideas document. So, once again, we have our notes document to which I'll share
that you can type stuff in. So, we can use that to take notes. And I wanted to first
start by gathering stuff to talk about. Something that I think would be great is if we, just
to talk about what I already put in there, is taking this roadmap and creating, well,
creating the ideas document, this one here, and turning it into a roadmap. And by roadmap,
I mean, you know, something like this that we've had. This is a roadmap, community roadmap
for 2023. And you just split things up roughly by quarters to stuff that you want to do.
It never works out exactly that way. But it still helps just everyone get kind of on the
same page and think about things and make sure we have some stuff planned out. Yeah,
so that's something that I think would be good. We don't have to create the roadmap necessarily
here, but just kind of figure out what we want to do. The alternative would be just work more
mid-short-term milestones. It's another approach. Maybe both. What are some other topics that you'd
like to chat about? Yeah, roadmaps. Gonna have some mitsuba street food snack mix along the way
here. Some other things I put in there are two active pull requests. One, a header image for the
resources page, which is very straightforward. And then the covenants challenge, which came up,
someone on Twitter posted that they'd love to see covenants UX. Because there's all this
conversation around covenants happening and these different technical approaches, but there's no
consensus on which one to go for. And someone said, well, this should really be fleshed out
in design and explored very deeply. And then Dan, Yashash was in that conversation, too,
and then Dan created a PR there. That'd be a cool thing to make happen. I think it was Alex
Leishman from River, the CEO of River, and then Dan was replying to that. I mean, it's interesting.
Sorry, go ahead, Yashash. So I was just saying that in the past few weeks on Bitcoin Twitter,
it has been like people are only seem to be talking and fighting about two things. One of them is the
high fees and the spam filter stuff. And the other is this covenant stuff. And the covenant
stuff seems like super technical. They like only talking abbreviations because it's like
complicated stuff. There are so many proposers. CTV, CSFS, Opcat. It all seems a bit intimidating,
to be honest. And they are also talking about a few use cases, I guess. But then it's also a
challenge for everyone to understand which covenants proposers enable what exactly and
which one should we want to activate. And if it requires a soft fork or whatever, it seems,
you know, there's an art in there. Yeah, I can't follow all of this stuff. But I did listen to
Stefan Leverer podcast this morning on the bus, which talked about that covenants could enable
tons of lightning scaling. So it seems like there are all kinds of different things.
I think the issue is that there won't be enough UTXOs in general. So they will have to be shared
at some point. And I mean, that's one aspect of these covenants. Another aspect would be that you
can actually do, let's say, spending based on, for instance, the amount of coin or the height of the
value of the transaction and these kinds of things. And maybe it's not even, from a design
perspective, we don't even have to know which one of these proposals will be kind of implemented
or agreed upon because we just can design what is needed in that regard. So we don't necessarily
have to be constrained by the technical or too much by the technical implementation.
I think we could add to the conversation, but I don't think we can. I mean, there's so much
to consider from the technical stuff to thinking about how this could be abused and break the system
and go wrong. There's all kinds of stuff. But yeah, that would be a cool thing to kick off.
Maybe we could do a learning Bitcoin and design session about it, just to wrap our heads around
these different things and gather some intel. I was thinking about the same thing about frost
because I'm starting to read up about it in the part of this multi-stake, multi-key
setups. So that could also be a topic for such a call.
I mean, so Stephen traditionally did the learning Bitcoin and design calls,
but he's been very busy. So I reached out to him about picking up that series again,
if he would want to do it or if it's fine if someone else does it or whatnot.
But then we could just make this a monthly thing.
And if we don't have a super current topic, I do feel like picking up on some existing pages
and going over them, reading through them together would be helpful for
the newer, the more the newcomers or the people who have maybe explored certain areas of Bitcoin,
but not others. Where it's not about super far out tech, but more of the established stuff.
Christoph, I love that idea. I feel like the covenants might be something like that,
like a candidate for the learning and Bitcoin sessions, but maybe also something like silent
image because that seems awesome.
Yeah, I think the main, you know, with design reviews, we've kind of gotten to the point
where people just kind of come up and say, hey, can we do a design review? And I just say, cool,
when you want to do it and we just organize it and they kind of bring the content,
right? It would be good with learning Bitcoin if it was similar to. So if you'd like to have
a session around it, maybe you can be the one to guide the session or maybe you can find someone
to guide the session and invite them in. That would make it much easier for me being often the
person who sets up these calls to just say yes. So I don't feel like I have to do all the research
and everything as well. Yeah, I'd be willing to set up the first session.
And I do think Josie Bake, who Mo hangs out sometimes with in Amsterdam, who works on silent
payments, I think, if I remember correctly, would probably be open to hosting a session.
Yeah, that sounds amazing. I can reach out to the code for Covenant's one. I think he also now has
a series of bips around that. So maybe if he's interested. Yeah, we'd have to make sure just we
get away from the technical stuff. Like there's a certain depth where we just don't go beyond
and we just kind of keep it because otherwise it's just, you know, we want to get to a certain part
of this Covenant's topic. But yeah, sounds awesome. Sounds awesome. Let's just put those on the
calendar then.
Let me see.
Action.
Cool, cool, cool.
Okay, so going back to the
roadmap again. So Michael, I think also you mentioned something that you would like to work on.
And maybe we can just, if there are some existing issues, I can just assign them to you
and put them on the roadmap and then we can just add quarters like Q1, Q2.
Yeah, I already self-assigned myself. It was the one about the descriptors.
Yeah, the first one here in the list. Okay. And then the shared wallet reference design,
let's say revamped. So those are the two. Should I put them in Q1?
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So
you already assigned yourself to the other one as well. I think so.
Okay, perfect. Yeah, those are the two.
Cool. And then they should show up here on our roadmap now.
Yeah, cool. So this roadmap you can always access from
just the regular, if you go up to projects, should be on that list.
And then if you're not familiar with it at the top, you have a few different tabs. You can just
see them by milestones, which we're not using right now. So by quarters would probably be
the way to look at it. Yeah, and I put four things in there. This was part of
me going, last week, trying to clean out a bunch of stuff, because I had to go to the
me going last week, trying to clean out a bunch of stuff, because we have some issues that are
two plus years old. And I really feel like it's either, you know, time to really act on them,
or just get rid of them. And I closed maybe five, six of them where there was,
you know, either someone suggested something, there was absolutely no action, and it doesn't
seem that relevant. There are the ones where I just asked, like, is this relevant or so? And,
you know, if there's no answer in a certain amount of weeks, then I'll just close them.
But I wanted to confirm. And then there are some where I feel like, with a little bit of pushing,
those could be taken care of. And some of them I put on here, which is the Fiat over Lightning,
for which Steven already created a pretty good document, probably just needs wrapping up. I
asked him about it. Then making the Contribute page more actionable, that's ongoing. Creating a
page for Designing Error Stage, which is more like lifting content from one page to another.
And then adding some visuals to the Private Key Management section, that also seems like a
fun little thing to do. Hey, Rakin. Hello. Thanks for joining us today. We were just discussing
a bit of roadmap stuff, who wants to work on what, and kind of what we should focus on.
So we have this Guide 2024 Ideas document. And an easy step is if someone feels strongly
about something, they can just say, I want to do that. And we'll put it on the roadmap,
ideally with an idea of which corridor it would happen in.
Yeah. This governance media, it's way in there.
I got, you know, something that I was wondering about is, we've had the idea of merchant stuff,
having a merchant section in there for a couple of years. There were some false starts.
No one seems to be interested in working on this. We have like, I don't know, five, eight issues
open around merchants. But the momentum just never seems to come together. Should we just ditch it?
Or, I don't know, let's just leave it there. What are the issues on emerging stuff that are
just like an example of what is considered emergent? So I think this actually has its own
tags when we click on merchants. So it's in-person point of sale reference design,
updating the personal finance page with something about merchants. For example, just breaking down,
for example, I think one of the things was the difference between having like a street vendor
or someone selling stuff at a yard sale versus in a restaurant where you have multiple waiters who
should be able to take payments but not control the funds and whatnot, then to something much
bigger like an office with multiple locations and all of this stuff. And the bigger you get,
the needs just really change. And just breaking, starting by breaking down these different
groups or users, yeah. And then from there building out some reference designs or building
out content. And then there's stuff like multi-currency display, this case in personas,
brainstorming a first table. So there's in doing a case study based on the Galloway cash register
tracking. With the merchants stuff, I almost feel like we should put it on some kind of wish
list. Yeah, we need someone to really push it forward and kind of be passionate about it.
We don't have that person at the moment. So having lots of issues feels
more of a burden than a help. But I don't know if we should just kind of lump them all into one
with a kind of wishlist title and forget about it for the moment. I'm not sure if you can do
that in GitHub really, but that's kind of what I would say. And then we should try and find
that person who is passionate about it and wants to do it, but
yeah, not have it hanging over the community as a whole.
Yeah. So maybe just consolidate. There's this design tracker, merchants design tracker with
maybe just consolidate everything in there and just close issues where there's basically nothing
was done. Yeah, that could be a thing. And then also add a message in there that we're looking
for contributors. And I think something like that would be cool if someone would, whoever champions
that collaborates with BTC Pay and Galloway and I don't know. I think, what is it? Breeze has a
point of sale. Wallet of Satoshi has a point of sale. Like they don't have to come up with
everything from scratch. There's a lot of stuff out there. Okay.
Okay. Took a note on that one.
Another thing I was wondering about the website itself.
There are a handful of issues around redesigning the homepage. The homepage criticism was that if
you go to bitcoin.design, it's kind of simple and it doesn't really tell you. It's not really
inviting. Showcase the projects, showcase the people, make it more inviting, interesting,
showcase more what the community is about. That was I think a bigger part of the feedback.
So what does everyone want? There could also be feedback. There was some stuff about improving
the search by using a third party service and a few other things. What does everyone
think about touching the site itself? I agree that it could be a little bit more
inviting. I kind of like how you phrased that. To have more of a personality. Is that what
you're talking about? Not necessarily personality. Part of the concept is that we can have all these
different headers. There are five different headers at the top and you land on the page,
there's always a different one. Each one was created by someone else in the community.
And there's a link where you can also design your own header, which I still need to get to.
So that was kind of meant to showcase the creativity of different people and the
different perspectives. And then below that is more the informational. So I don't think that
header necessarily needs to change. It would be cool to have more contributions there.
But I think below that it's more about the information about what are all the things
that are happening here? Like what's happening right now? Maybe a lot of landing pages have
quotes from people like, oh, this community really helped me get going or improve my project or
whatnot. Maybe better showcase the different projects on the homepage or so. There could be
more of these, what do you call it, information sent.
It's quite text heavy, right? You have the header image and then text. And to kind of
maybe have a bit more expressive, like you mentioned, some quotes or kind of a carousel
of screenshots of things that we designed. Or kind of more content navigation and teasers
on the homepage might help.
Yeah. When I look at the projects tab, it's almost like if I skipped the first
text paragraph, we've got these nice sort of squares of projects with icons and headlines.
Kind of feels like that should, or at least part of that could work well on the front page.
That's a good point.
Because it gives you a good overview that there's a lot of stuff going on, a lot of valuable things.
Maybe it doesn't show you what's going on exactly now, but it gives you a good idea of what the
community has already done compared to what we have now, which looks a bit academic almost.
And maybe we could also mention the design foundation on the homepage, right?
Yeah. It is one of those squares actually on the project page. So we could get quite a lot for free
by just nicking some of that. Of course, we could also custom design this whole thing,
but I'm just thinking for some quick wins here. That already seems like it would be
a nicer front door.
Yeah. I agree on that too. Like I feel like the homepage could be working harder. Like right now,
it doesn't really have a lot of content at all. It just talks about like an intro
para and then it talks about the Bitcoin design guide para and that's it.
Yeah. It's so easy to fall into this trap. Whatever project one works on, like you do
the front door once and then you keep building features without revisiting the front door. So
yeah, it seems like we could do better. Yeah. Okay. I mean, that's something we came up in
the last five minutes here for a proper review of the site. I think it would be cool if everyone
just takes 15 minutes, just kind of click around with that in mind, pretend they're like different
people, someone new to the whole community, someone looking for some specific project,
someone looking for help with a particular design problem or so. Just kind of see if they find
things, how it works out for them on different devices, tablet, mobile.
That'd be cool. Okay. So it seems like maybe these existing issues that we have,
I think five issues in there. Maybe those are not necessarily the ones that we want to do,
but maybe we consolidate again. We create a new issue that says rethink and then we kind of
pick out things that are relevant from those older issues and then we start a proper
effort on it and then just get it done instead of having five two-year-old issues floating around.
Okay. Set up an issue and consolidate. Okay, cool.
Yeah. Is there anything else you'd personally like to work on or that you would love
it if someone worked on like eCash, Covenant, more case studies?
I feel like a Bitcoin Core app case studies needs to go in there.
Yeah. In terms of the, now that I'm starting
to put together actually the inheritance wallet part, I feel like I have to look at Covenant
anyway. It might be related, so I'll probably look at Covenant, try to understand it a bit
more in the next one or two weeks and then we can see, maybe reach out to some people for
a learning session. I know that James Lopp has been writing about Covenant on the CASA blog
and yeah, I can do some research on that. That's awesome. You're really picking the
easy topics, MiniScript and Frost and Covenant. Yeah, but the thing is that it's all about
in this broader range of programmability and that's one of the things probably that
are relevant, especially if you give maybe one emergency keys to a lawyer.
It seemed like a little iceberg with a little thing on the top of the water and
it gets bigger, but it's kind of all related and maybe I can still split it up, but I have to do
some research anyway. That's awesome. Really love it. Glad you're diving into these topics.
That's really awesome. I was thinking of when you mentioned case studies,
I'm not sure if it's a case study or just like a write-up of tutorial, but it could fit in there.
This BGG wallet that I'm working on basically using L.E.K. Node and the Bitcoin UI kit, etc.
That could be a case study in basically building a wallet with our building blocks.
It's something I want to do a write-up anyway, trying to wrap up the wallet to a usable state
and it could end up with their existing a test flight link that could go along with the case
study or something that's so that people could both read and then also get something to try or
install on their phone to see what it led to. Yeah, that'd be super cool. We have this thing
about code resources, so to share with everyone else, around the Bitcoin UI kit there have been
some starting points for code libraries, UI libraries, and then Daniel has been working on
this BGG wallet. This all kind of comes together in a way a little bit more now with Daniel really
trying to push something that's basically like, it's more than just a prototype. It's an actual
functioning product in a way. It's supposed to be a reference wallet, I guess, and reference
in the sense that it's usable and mimics some of our reference designs in the guide.
Perhaps not reference in terms of like all the bells and whistles technically and stuff, but
it's a starting point for people. It should be good enough that they can sort of pick that up
and maybe continue building as opposed to starting from scratch. But it basically works
using LDK node and creating your seed phrase and putting it in your iCloud. There's a ton of stuff
there. It's not just like buttons that don't do anything, right? And even further, I think it's
one of the first ones that use just-in-time channels on a self-custodial wallet, so
it should be much easier to onboard with than most wallets that have been created in the past
where you have to set up channels and figure out liquidity and stuff.
And that's because I think that's what we need in the future from consumer grade
wallets, right? We're not going to get that many people to set up channels, I think.
So yeah, it's hopefully going to be good. It's a little bit sort of cutting edge.
You know, some of these things are just about released or sometimes they're not yet on mainnet.
Yeah, moving target, but it's fun.
So what's a good way to go about this now? Should we create an issue or do you want to
put an issue together or put some stuff in the roadmap? Or do you want to think about how to
break this down, maybe start with a code resources page? Then, I don't know, like how would you break
down this bigger project? I think just putting it as a case study for now might be a good start
because it's basically writing a blog post, more or less, about how this thing is built or what you
can do with it. And that can probably link into the other stuff. So I think, yeah, creating an
issue for now saying, you know, BDG wallets case study is something I can sign myself up to for
Q1 probably. Cool, do you want to put an issue together for that? Sure, I'll do that. Awesome,
thank you. You might have to help me put it in the right project and the right milestone and stuff,
but I'll see if I can figure it out. Okay, yeah, we don't have any milestones right now, so we
decided last year we're not working with them since they were not working out for us necessarily.
Okay.
Yeah, so I'm trying to be more of the gap filler right now with the issues that I pick,
which then hopefully allows everyone else to dig into the things that they're just really into.
Does everyone know what the status is of Vault 12 right now? I feel like Vault 12 is kind of
amorphous thing and there's things happening, but it's never quite clear because
it seems to cover a lot of stuff. I don't, I haven't been keeping up.
What does everyone think of
this idea of
scaling in five years reference design?
So let's say, like, let's say we pretend that covenants are there. We pretend
that the frozen sediment is done and works. We pretend Bitcoin is five times more expensive
and the fees are constantly pretty high and we pretend frost is done and we just, we just pretend
game and then we figure out what, maybe what a wallet would be like that allows people to do
small payments and saving some of that stuff.
Personally, personally, I would like it to, to have
kind of some, some kind of holistic integrated experience
for stuff like, because I've been doing some flow charting or kind of conceptual work last week
about pretending, pretending a family fully living on a Bitcoin standard, right? What,
how do you, how do you set that up exactly for these kinds of things? And maybe you have
an integrated Noster chat in these wallets or these, you know, to, to kind of communicate around
value and these kinds of things. So it's definitely, it can definitely be fun and maybe it doesn't even
have to take, to take into consideration, you know, all the technical, different technical components
just say what we, everybody would expect or want, then work backwards, backwards from that, actually.
So, yeah, always fun challenge, but I don't, I don't, I don't want to, you know, my plate is already
pretty, pretty full, but, but that's what I wanted to do actually with transcend and kind of this more
visionary thing. But, yeah, I'd like that.
Yeah, I like, I mean, I love thinking about that too, because I think towards the end of 2023, like
I mean, I love thinking about that too, because I think towards the end of 2023, like,
at least my, my line of thinking and the thing that I was listening to, what went in the direction
where, like, if it seems like we are rushing towards the world where all of these adversarial
use cases, adversarial scenarios might, might, might become real faster, right, because sometimes
it feels like it's just a hypothetical where we say Bitcoin, we only think about adversarial
things and it's like, you know, like based on greed incentives and all of those things. But
what if that, that, that, that kind of world is approaching and maybe it doesn't have to be like
five years out, I think the ETFs might be approved very soon. We know that in the US, the, the
on-ramps and off-ramps are being, let's say, very heavily monitored, right, and so, like, there is
this lot of regulatory interest, let's just say that, you know, so what does that look like? I mean,
what if they, like, try to, like, how could the UX have to be in that kind of a consideration
where you, like, where the blockchain is being surveilled actively and there is
blacklists and whitelists and, like, those things. I think that is, you know, like that ECash,
if we, like, until we have those, these big scaling answers can, maybe there can be ECash
or something else, because in, like, that adversarial thing, that self-custodial thing,
like, that we, we may require that faster than we think, and it might not be just about the numbers
either. Like, in my mind, that is, that is, that is, that is the theme for 2024, like,
like, privacy, self-custody, because everybody is going to be rushing towards the ETF, you know,
the law enforcement is going to come in, so what do we do? Yeah, sorry, that was a bit of a rant,
but. Yeah, you know, that type of stuff does put things in perspective a bit, because there's,
I mean, just the fees doubling is, is such a hard thing, right, where it just makes it in,
not usable for a lot of people. It's just, that's just how it is, right, and if he's double again,
then it doesn't have to double very often for it to just become kind of a luxury network,
and that's not where we want to be, or like you're saying, some of the privacy things,
there are a bunch of people that, if there's no privacy, it's just not going to work for them.
That's, that's, that's pretty, pretty tough things to work with, and if you can consider those, then
you know, or if we start with those, maybe at the starting points for some explorations, then
we'll have some, it makes priorities, I think, easier. But how do, what's a good format for that,
right, do we just create another issue, or should we just kind of create a
Friday apocalypse work group meeting, where every Friday we figure out how the world's ending,
and then design for it? What's a good way to? I wonder if we could hijack one of these sessions
one time, and maybe next time, or two times for now, say like, hey, this is a different
kind of session, let's brainstorm, whatever, making more of a working thing.
Could be an option, because these sessions feel like we could mix them up a bit.
It's not always we have that many issues to kind of talk through in detail.
What would we call that? That's a good, if everyone wants to do that, then we can definitely do that.
What, what do we call that? What type of session is this? It's like a big picture.
Obviously, it's a future jam. Future jam.
Loomstake session. I don't know.
Yeah, it's a future jam.
Yeah, it's a future jam.
Yeah, it's a future jam.
It's a future jam.
Future jam.
Future jam.
Loomstake session.
I don't know.
I mean, if you also start doing these design huddles, then we could also just use those
to just pick one of them and then just design something for it.
We could combo those.
Okay.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, I think this session is particularly one for around planning because we're starting in the
new year and we basically wrapped up all our PRs at the end of the, right before Christmas.
Does anyone want to be the organizer for these?
Or, I don't know, put something together and maybe identify some of those scenarios to get us going.
Should we just take the next session and figure it out?
Well, I'm not sure if it needs to be the next one necessarily. I mean, I'll open to it too, but
it feels like maybe we take one particularly, we can prepare one particular use case.
Maybe not the super complex, a whole family setup thing. Maybe it's just the one user
beginning. And then maybe ahead of time, we just write up, you know, like an off-page brief or
something. Yeah, I love the idea of like, so, Daniel, are you saying like everybody picks
like a topic and prepare something on that? Or what were you thinking about?
Well, I was thinking more, there was one topic that everybody would think about together, but
I think your idea is also interesting that like one person does a bit of pre-work and says,
well, so it's more maybe of a presenting of different views of what it should be like.
I don't know. Yeah, sometimes it can be hard to kind of work effectively together in a
online session. So that's a different approach. If there's something you want to think about
first individually, then the easiest thing is great. Now the Google Doc shared in the guide
channel and just kind of gather ideas, doomsday scenarios. Yeah, okay. And then we can just pick
one for a call and talk about it. But we can just kind of see where it goes from there.
Yeah, I also love the idea of like Daniel was saying like something super like,
also like realistic that he could maybe do. Are you like homesteading in like the forest,
something like that already on the bit consensus standard? You know, like that sounds like very
hardcore scenario. I think there are other people thinking about that.
How about once we've colonized Mars and you're homesteading on Mars?
They can invite Matt Damon to help us out with that.
Is that is that is Matt Damon related to the Bitcoin, Damon?
Ah, yes. Yes, that's him. Yeah, cool. What else do we have in here?
Yeah, there is there is like something I think, I don't think it's in there. But
I think I hadn't noticed that we don't seem to have anything about adding a watch on the wallet.
Like we have something things tangential to that, but not exactly that. And I wanted to do like a
stub, maybe like a very small thing about that. So that would probably be under the savings wallet,
maybe. Yes. Well, that is that is actually a good question, because I do have a Google doc in which
I'm trying to think about it. I can share it with you guys. But that is one place it could go.
Another place that I thought it could go was the common user flows.
We have a section and we have a bunch of super, super interesting things in there. But this
this thing is not in there. And I feel like we use like mobile palettes or any other palettes.
And we like that is like the default thing to do, right? You just set like set up like a watch only.
Yeah. OK. Yeah. I said I put it in there on the common user flows and we can move it around.
But yeah, that sounds great. Do you do you want to create an issue for it?
Yeah, I'll do that.
OK. OK, here's another one. Transcripts and localization. We've had the localization
issue open for a year or something or so. It comes up occasionally. We have a Spanish channel in
this world. The transcript thing was brought up last year. I feel like these things, they don't
necessarily draw. You're not going to get just a bunch of people being super pumped about them.
Nevertheless, they could be very worthwhile when done because we might have a lot of
people quietly coming to these resources and turning around and we will never know it.
But maybe they would stay if they would see that they could help localize it or if there
was a transcript or so. What do you think about those two?
Well, I continue to feel it's important, but I also have to, you know,
and I confess that nothing's happened for the whole time. We've talked about it for
probably two years at least. I think there are two parts. One, because I tried to look into this a
little bit probably about a year ago, one part is the technical part. How do you technically
translate or present the website in different languages? And I think that one is the one that
I personally struggle with a bit. I'm not knowledgeable enough with the setup we have
to pick the right package and kind of implement that. But if we had that in the system,
I feel that the actual translation getting people to contribute would potentially be less of an issue.
I mean, there are plenty of countries, there are Spanish-speaking that have Bitcoin groups and
people that are really passionate about things that we could probably leverage and
bring into this community. But yeah, again, we're lacking a champion both on the technical side and
the kind of translation content side. So again, I think it's one of those,
we should move this to wishlist, you know, because it's, yeah, it just doesn't have the champion.
What transcript are you guys hoping to? So pttranscripts.com, someone reached out last,
I think it was in December. So that would be about, they would use AI, I guess, to,
always sounds goofy, everything's magic AI, to create an automated transcript of our videos on
YouTube. And then someone would have to review them. And I think pttranscripts actually paste
people some stats to review transcripts, and then they would all be available. So that would make a
lot of our discussions much more easily searchable. For people who just don't want to sit through the
whole video, or they just want to look for, like, have there been any discussions in all the videos
about Frost or, you know, mini script or so, they could easily just pinpoint this stuff and then
maybe watch the parts or read about the parts that interested them. So it is kind of a content
unlock. And we do have, I don't know, 250 hours of videos or so on YouTube.
I don't, I have no idea what's all in there, if it's worth it. Right, I would just make, I didn't know
if you guys were talking about these video recordings or not. I mean, it makes sense,
I would, I don't speak a lot of Spanish, right, I would do it. I mean, I technically,
I think I could do it, but the reviewing part would be a little challenging.
Yeah, I think the, ideally, the reviewing is pretty straightforward. I do feel like the
localization translation into, you know, broadly used global languages has gotten really, really
good. It might struggle with some of the technical stuff a bit, or if the quality is not good,
someone's mumbling or so. I feel like otherwise it would be pretty straightforward. And the other
thing with translation, I was wondering is, you know, here in my browser, I just pressed this
little translate button and changed it to German. Right. Is that good enough these days? Do we need
localization? Well, what do you think? I mean, when you read this, does it look...
I haven't read it yet, so I'll have to look at some pages and take a look through. But,
you know, even, let's say, this takes us to 80%, right? How much work do we need to do to
actually improve on this? Yeah, I think you're right. It's probably quite easy for people who
are looking for information about these subjects to either find it in their language in their
country or, like you say, find this resource and translate it. I mean, doing with the video things,
I mean, if you wanted to do the video, you would just have to, like, you know, it would probably
be a paid service at this point, even though AI has gotten a lot better. You would probably have
to pay a small fee for the translation, I think, or maybe you could do it like 15 times on a free
trial and then you'd have to pay for it. Then you would just cut the video, you know, the new audio
into the video and then you'd have to export it again, I guess. Or is it a function where you
switch back and forth in the video viewer or is it just... or each video is a separate video?
So, take a look at btctranscripts.com. So, let's say we go to Andreas Antonopoulos.
I'll just click a random one. So, there's a YouTube link here.
This was the speakers who did the transcript.
And at the top, I can choose three different languages. What is that? Spanish, Portuguese,
and Chinese, I think. There's one by Bitcoin Design.
No video posted online, interesting.
Oh, so we're talking about the actual, like, transcripts, so not, like, the video. I mean,
the audio, the actual transcript of the audio, like, the written version of the audio.
I think that's what it would be. And I have to look it up again. I think they use some type of
self-hosted transcription, video transcription service, and then they just clean it up afterwards.
I see. Okay. Because AI is so good nowadays. I mean, you could actually, you know,
have people speaking in different languages if you want to, in real time and video. But
that's where you're probably getting into paid services. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, for search, yeah, I understand that. But I mean, you know, if you get a paid service
for a month and just run all of our 200 videos through it or so, I mean, that's like, that's
totally worth it. Right. I can't imagine it's too crazy expensive. It just requires someone to go
through. Now, what if you switch, if you do the Google thing on a page like this, does it?
So, this is using Safari, but I know Chrome has the same thing. Let's translate this one
to German and see what happens. I never do this, but...
I'm just reading. I just, with Google Translate, translated the time-based recovery page
that I worked on before the holidays, and it's getting pretty close in check. So, I switched to
check. And I think it's probably 80% there. Yeah, that makes it tricky, right? If this is
actually really good, then our own translation efforts are not going to be very helpful for
a while until we... And given the amount of resources we have, or rather don't have,
I think it's probably not where we should put our efforts right now.
Yeah. What's tricky are these kind of specific, very Bitcoin-specific terms and words?
Hmm. Or something like the term safe for later. It's been translated in a kind of money,
as money, like saving money for later. But these are kind of these nuances that basically you
could relatively quickly figure out, but still... So, it actually translates text in images also,
right? Enough? I feel like it can do that these days, that's a...
Yeah, let's see if it can do it in images.
Translate.
Yep. Translate text in images as well.
Yeah. I guess something I'm wondering there too is if you can give translation hints potentially,
if you can provide some extra data on the page about context or something that then
allows the automated localization to work more efficiently.
That'd be interesting. I have no idea if that exists.
But yeah, so should we... I mean, what do we do with this localization issue now?
Basically just say, use your browser.
Put it to the wishlist there, probably as Daniel suggested. I mean,
wait until it gets even better and then officially say that, use the browser translate.
I have to translate the kind of formal documents and I've been using Depot to do that.
It was very, very good from Czech to German and official documents. I mean, it's probably
getting to a point where, yeah, it will be kind of machine-heavy. And the only thing you'd have
to account for is kind of tone of voice and kind of like a glossary with terms that, yeah,
I don't know how to say it in English, but it's probably getting to a point where
and kind of like a glossary with terms that, yeah, that would be translated in the same way
or differently than what the machine would do and kind of teach it that way.
This is also different. Since we just have a website in an application, I cannot run inside
any app I use a localization on there. It works great in the browser and the browser can just
switch things around. So for us, that might be, we might just not, might not be realistic
or necessary for us at this stage. Okay, I'll add a note in there.
Okay.
And then for BTC transcripts, yeah, maybe just do a quick review and I'll take a look at it.
And I'll try to come up with a little bit of a process and how involved it would be.
Maybe it's a matter of just a week of just running some automated thing. We have all
the transcripts, we upload them, done, who knows. Might be straightforward. I'll take a look.
Yeah, cool. Any other big dreams? Where are we at the end of this year?
I don't know. I'll have to think about my grant in some times around March and April.
Yeah, but the big thing is that we don't just add more stuff and improve it, but tons of people use
it and they refer to it and this stuff finds itself into all kinds of products. Yeah, I started out
writing kind of in kind of normal like prose or blog format, like an article about
custody, Bitcoin custody for digital nomad. And kind of try to just write out these different
scenarios without designing anything. Just think through it and have maybe a couple of
these various scenarios fleshed out a bit more. The same basic topic, but from a different angle
each time. Is that your life plan? No, my brother's. He's really traveling around the world. He's in
Morocco right now with his van. He uses an S19 for heating. It has solar panels on the
roof and it does paragliding. So that's kind of his spiel, not mine. You're the family man.
Yeah, I'm more stationary, obviously.
Okay, cool. We're at the hour. Should we wrap it up for any more discussion points?
Probably. Being the family man, I have to pick up my daughter from pottery classes.
Okay, sounds good. Hope she made something awesome there. Yeah, me too. Then I'll stop
the recording here. Thanks all for tuning in.