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Luty pattern SMGs #22688

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kevingranade opened this Issue Jan 1, 2018 · 14 comments

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kevingranade commented Jan 1, 2018

We have frequently discussed the limits of the players ability to craft firearms from scratch. This gun represents one extreme of those limits, a proven, if suboptimal submachine gun crafted entirely from standard materials with simple tools.

Main site of Luty (archived)
http://thehomegunsmith.com/
Article about the gun
http://armamentresearch.com/pa-luty-9mm-submachine-guns/
Related YouTube video
https://youtu.be/sIhGCRIQnCA
Archive of book in pdf
https://archive.org/stream/Expedient_Homemade_Firearms_9mm_Submachine_Gun_P_A_Luty_Paladin_Press

The drawbacks are clear however, this is a smoothbore gun with no recoil management and an unreliable and low capacity feed mechanism.

Tool requirements:

  1. Electric drill and bits
    Existing item
  2. Hacksaw
    Existing item
  3. Selection of metal files
    Existing item I think
  4. Angle grinder
    New item
  5. Bench grinder
    New item
  6. Hammer
    Existing item
  7. Set square
    New item
  8. Pin reamer
    New item
  9. Taper cutting tool
    ???
  10. Countersink tool
    Either new item or part of the drill bit set.
  11. Large vise
    New item

Some of these items, such as the reamers and countersink tools, could arguably be included in toolkits, possibly existing ones.
The key new items:

  1. Angle grinder, a common handheld powertool. Has MANY other uses.
  2. Bench grinder, a common powered bench-top power tool.
  3. Set square, a common and easily fabricated hand tool.
  4. Large vise, a common and fabricatable bench fixture.
  5. Expedient Homemade Firearms, a new book containing the recipe for the expedient smg.
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ZhilkinSerg Jan 2, 2018

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Angle grinder looks a lot like circualr saw with different disk.

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ZhilkinSerg commented Jan 2, 2018

Angle grinder looks a lot like circualr saw with different disk.

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ZhilkinSerg Jan 2, 2018

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Countersink is just type of cutter head for drills, isn't it?

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ZhilkinSerg commented Jan 2, 2018

Countersink is just type of cutter head for drills, isn't it?

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ZhilkinSerg Jan 2, 2018

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We also need lathe probably - lot of round shaped things can be done with that.

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ZhilkinSerg commented Jan 2, 2018

We also need lathe probably - lot of round shaped things can be done with that.

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Rivet-the-Zombie Jan 2, 2018

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Angle grinder looks a lot like circualr saw with different disk.

The handle/motor part is a different shape though, so you can get the abrasive disc into corners and such.

Countersink is just type of cutter head for drills, isn't it?

They make special bits for it, but you can make countersink holes with a larger size bit and a guide/bit of extra care.

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Rivet-the-Zombie commented Jan 2, 2018

Angle grinder looks a lot like circualr saw with different disk.

The handle/motor part is a different shape though, so you can get the abrasive disc into corners and such.

Countersink is just type of cutter head for drills, isn't it?

They make special bits for it, but you can make countersink holes with a larger size bit and a guide/bit of extra care.

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kevingranade Jan 2, 2018

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Angle grinder looks a lot like circualr saw with different disk.

It's similar, but the differences are pretty critical.

Countersink is just type of cutter head for drills, isn't it?

Yes, which is why it didn't make it to the final list of 5 new items.

We also need lathe probably - lot of round shaped things can be done with that.

Please read the book I linked, at least the intro. The whole point of expedient firearms is to avoid specialised tools like lathes. A lathe is 100x rarer than the rest of the tools combined.

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kevingranade commented Jan 2, 2018

Angle grinder looks a lot like circualr saw with different disk.

It's similar, but the differences are pretty critical.

Countersink is just type of cutter head for drills, isn't it?

Yes, which is why it didn't make it to the final list of 5 new items.

We also need lathe probably - lot of round shaped things can be done with that.

Please read the book I linked, at least the intro. The whole point of expedient firearms is to avoid specialised tools like lathes. A lathe is 100x rarer than the rest of the tools combined.

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ZhilkinSerg Jan 2, 2018

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Please read the book I linked, at least the intro. The whole point of expedient firearms is to avoid specialised tools like lathes. A lathe is 100x rarer than the rest of the tools combined.

Sorry, I've skimmed through the book on archive.org, saw mention of lathe and thought that it could be used to create some home-made baseball bats and similiar things. This is unrelated to firearms.

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ZhilkinSerg commented Jan 2, 2018

Please read the book I linked, at least the intro. The whole point of expedient firearms is to avoid specialised tools like lathes. A lathe is 100x rarer than the rest of the tools combined.

Sorry, I've skimmed through the book on archive.org, saw mention of lathe and thought that it could be used to create some home-made baseball bats and similiar things. This is unrelated to firearms.

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Cyrano7 Jan 3, 2018

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Some other homemade guns like the scrap lever-action shotgun could use this sort of treatment too. I have all those pipe and scrap guns blacklisted for my worlds now because the recipes and functionality are quite questionable. I do like the idea of having crafted from scratch guns in the game though. Lots of youtube and real life examples to go off of.

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Cyrano7 commented Jan 3, 2018

Some other homemade guns like the scrap lever-action shotgun could use this sort of treatment too. I have all those pipe and scrap guns blacklisted for my worlds now because the recipes and functionality are quite questionable. I do like the idea of having crafted from scratch guns in the game though. Lots of youtube and real life examples to go off of.

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Firestorm01X2 Jan 5, 2018

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  1. Why does player need those guns if normal ones could be easily found?
  2. Probably it is better to finish gun balancing before adding new layer of gun crafting.
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Firestorm01X2 commented Jan 5, 2018

  1. Why does player need those guns if normal ones could be easily found?
  2. Probably it is better to finish gun balancing before adding new layer of gun crafting.
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Cyrano7 Jan 6, 2018

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@Firestorm01X2 Well for reason one some ppl may play with no cities enabled or low item spawns which means fewer chances to find firearms.

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Cyrano7 commented Jan 6, 2018

@Firestorm01X2 Well for reason one some ppl may play with no cities enabled or low item spawns which means fewer chances to find firearms.

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kevingranade Jan 7, 2018

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1a. The main reason is if the player finds some kind of workshop with the necessary tools before they're capable of entering a city, particularly if they have spawn rate set very high.
1b. Because it's there.
2a. There is no well-defined "finish" for gun balancing to even target.
2b. Different people have different abilities and priorities for developing game features and content, additions are almost never fungible to the point where it makes sense to trade off effort expended on feature A vs effort expended on feature B.
2c. Gun balance is more or less independent of what guns are available, so adding this new gun isn't going to interfere with future balancing effors. In short they have nothing to do with each other.

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kevingranade commented Jan 7, 2018

1a. The main reason is if the player finds some kind of workshop with the necessary tools before they're capable of entering a city, particularly if they have spawn rate set very high.
1b. Because it's there.
2a. There is no well-defined "finish" for gun balancing to even target.
2b. Different people have different abilities and priorities for developing game features and content, additions are almost never fungible to the point where it makes sense to trade off effort expended on feature A vs effort expended on feature B.
2c. Gun balance is more or less independent of what guns are available, so adding this new gun isn't going to interfere with future balancing effors. In short they have nothing to do with each other.

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Firestorm01X2 Jan 7, 2018

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2a. There is no well-defined "finish" for gun balancing to even target.

There is.
#22211
#21244 (comment)

But well. This issue looks delayed on forever.
So let's add some new guns.

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Firestorm01X2 commented Jan 7, 2018

2a. There is no well-defined "finish" for gun balancing to even target.

There is.
#22211
#21244 (comment)

But well. This issue looks delayed on forever.
So let's add some new guns.

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bl34k Jan 9, 2018

While we're at it, change the 12 gauge pistol recipe to reflect the one in that same site. Currently you don't even need a spring to make it. Also the pipe rifles. They would certainly need at least a drill. Currently most of those gun recipes are far too easy.

bl34k commented Jan 9, 2018

While we're at it, change the 12 gauge pistol recipe to reflect the one in that same site. Currently you don't even need a spring to make it. Also the pipe rifles. They would certainly need at least a drill. Currently most of those gun recipes are far too easy.

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I feel I came late, how are we on items? I'd love to help with this.

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Broken-Admin commented Jan 10, 2018

I feel I came late, how are we on items? I'd love to help with this.

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@Broken-Admin you are welcome to try.

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Night-Pryanik commented May 18, 2018

@Broken-Admin you are welcome to try.

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