Shotguns should be aligned with rifles.

[Firestorm01X2]

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.
Currently shotgun has somewhat artificial dispersion to reflect its artificial "gamey" close range role. But IRL shotguns can be used to shot birds from the sky.

Describe the solution you'd like
https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/bows-crossbows-and-their-balance/17067/150?

Also, I like how shotguns STILL have not been merged with rifles. I mean, COME ON. Last time I checked shotguns ARE, in fact, rifles (except for the fact the barrel is not rifled).

Describe alternatives you've considered
We need proper aligment of the shotguns since Cataclysm based on realism approach.
#23801

I was the one who aligned shotguns that way. Before my changed shotgun dispersion + slug dispersio was aligned to rifles. Not I understand that.
Instead of what I've done I could just increase maximum shotgun range.

Current ranged balance:

Current ranged balance:

Characters definition: #21244 (comment)

Character	>50% good	<10% good
Novice pistol	5	15
Novice shotgun	6	16
Novice SMG	6	18
Novice rifle	9	25
Competent pistol	15	33
Competent shotgun	15	33
Competent SMG	20	40
Competent rifle	24	48
God pistol	20	120
God shotgun	24	124
God SMG	30	190
God rifle	60	800

[kevingranade]

I think he means skill use, what's your rationale for increasing shotgun range?

[Firestorm01X2]

I think he means skill use, what's your rationale for increasing shotgun range?

Shtogun IRL can be used to shot duck from the sky. In game currently shotguns without slugs limited with 12 tiles. It is fairly short.

Also I finilally understood why shotguns had such werid dispersion numbers in the past. It was based around old_dispersion+100 (slug diepsrion)=rifle dispersion.

[Firestorm01X2]

Current shotgun balance based around modern FPS concept of close range weapon. It may be problem.

But there is may be alternative. We just need to determine it. It is not critical. But it can be done. If needed.

[mlangsdorf]

Shooting skeet with birdshot, there's nothing unusual about breaking a clay target that's flying past the opposite launching station. A skeet range is a 21 yard radius half-circle. so that's 35-45 yards away. Birdshot is tiny compared to buckshot, and loses velocity to air resistance faster, so I'd expect buckshot to have more range.

Converting yards to CDDA tiles is a hazardous exercise, but birdshot being effective to 15 tiles and buckshot to 30 or so isn't crazy. Upping the accurate ranges of shotguns to match SMGs would make sense to me.

[Firestorm01X2]

Converting yards to CDDA tiles is a hazardous exercise, but birdshot being effective to 15 tiles and buckshot to 30 or so isn't crazy.

30 is likely way too much for buckshot. Since 30 tiles is shooting range of enemy anti material turret. But for slugs 25-28 tiles may work.

For buckshot prob

Upping the accurate ranges of shotguns to match SMGs would make sense to me.

Currently shotguns has (mostly) SMG accuracy. But lower max ranges with buckshot.

Converting yards to CDDA tiles is a hazardous exercise,

Yes. But not exactly. We can compare gun type to each other. For example 15 tiles is max glock range. Using that may may approximate needed range.

Also we have this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aGH8N2kITxZ_8i1Vyi1G-FIVfQOTL6euvKxZkYOc-FE/edit#gid=0
from here:
#22756

[Firestorm01X2]

In fact if we will look here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aGH8N2kITxZ_8i1Vyi1G-FIVfQOTL6euvKxZkYOc-FE/edit#gid=0

I see that current max range somewhat fits real values. And even it is pretty optimistic:

Remington 870	12 ga	40 m

Glock	9mm	100 m

Kevin blaming this source is not very reliable but it is global by all Cataclysm weapons.

[darktoes]

For the record I'm 90% sure he was just talking about skill use. I don't use/haven't looked at shotguns enough to comment on their range.

[HotSake]

Shit, if crossbows use Rifles skill, why not shotguns? They're handled the same way, aimed the same way, fired the same way. At least rifles and shotguns are both firearms!

[aierce]

Some realism has to be sacrificed for game-play.

[Firestorm01X2]

Looks like buckshot pellets officialy loss lethality after 50 yards. So our current max ranges seems about right in comparsion with pistols.
Maybe problem in range distribution around all guns itself. But ingame range hard to determine bacause it is grid based turn base roguelike.

[Firestorm01X2]

Sorry missclicked on the mobile. But still issue likely to be closed.

One thing really can be done here - inrease accuracy of slugs. Slug gives +100 dispersion to gun. It was explainable when shotguns had sniper rifle dispersion, but now shotguns dispersion higher then before.