Remove stuck weapon penalty #18754

mugling · Oct 12, 2016

Four flags and 200 lines of code for the badly designed stuck weapon penalty isn't sensible and is an obstacle to a better melee system. In particular it prevents weapons having both cutting and piercing stats. This makes it hard to design items such as the halberd. This PR drops support for the penalty.

The next PR will update the JSON data to specify explicit values for piercing instead of relying on the STAB and SPEAR flags. Longer term the different damage types will start to diverge and have varying effectiveness against different monsters with the game automatically selecting the best available option.

mugling · Oct 12, 2016

Added bonus: fixes #14882 which is currently blocking 0.D.

Ready

Coolthulhu · Oct 12, 2016

Coolthulhu reviewed Oct 12, 2016

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Coolthulhu · Oct 12, 2016

doc/JSON_FLAGS.md

@@ -780,19 +780,15 @@ Some armor flags, such as `WATCH` and `ALARMCLOCK` are compatible with other ite
 ### Flags

 - ```ALWAYS_TWOHAND``` Item is always wielded with two hands. Without this, the items volume and weight are used to calculate this.
- ```CHOP``` Does cutting damage, with a high chance of getting stuck.
 - ```DIAMOND``` Diamond coating adds 30% bonus to cutting damage
 - ```MESSY``` Resistant to getting stuck in a monster. Potentially cause more gore in the future?


Needs description change. It does create more gore (especially fun when smashing corpses), but no longer affects sticking.

Coolthulhu · Oct 12, 2016

Coolthulhu reviewed Oct 12, 2016

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Coolthulhu · Oct 12, 2016

doc/JSON_FLAGS.md

@@ -780,19 +780,15 @@ Some armor flags, such as `WATCH` and `ALARMCLOCK` are compatible with other ite
 ### Flags

 - ```ALWAYS_TWOHAND``` Item is always wielded with two hands. Without this, the items volume and weight are used to calculate this.
- ```CHOP``` Does cutting damage, with a high chance of getting stuck.
 - ```DIAMOND``` Diamond coating adds 30% bonus to cutting damage


Not related, but does it only affect cutting?

Coolthulhu · Oct 12, 2016

Coolthulhu reviewed Oct 12, 2016

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Coolthulhu · Oct 12, 2016

src/melee.cpp

-            ///\EFFECT_STABBING increases damage when pulling out a stuck spear
-            const int stabbing_skill = get_skill_level( skill_stabbing );
-            d.add_damage( DT_CUT, rng( 1, stabbing_skill ) ); //add some extra damage for pulling out a spear
-            t.mod_moves(-30);


Move draining part of spears is one of the features I really liked.
Still, it wasn't really balanced, especially after spears got their reach attacks.

Might be worth resurrecting in some other form.

DangerNoodle · Oct 12, 2016

I can see this being a good thing, yes. I forget whether or not the Deft trait affects getting weapons stuck.

mugling · Oct 12, 2016

I can see this being a good thing, yes

Almost all of the effects never trigger

DangerNoodle · Oct 12, 2016

Regarding the stuckin code, or deftness? Because I recall getting a weapon stuck tends to be somewhat common occurrence with 0 skills.

Unrelated, but comical:

mugling added some commits 22 minutes from now

mugling · Oct 12, 2016

Deftness has no effect

mugling · Oct 12, 2016

Unrelated, but comical:
mugling added some commits 22 minutes from now

Were you not aware that I can predict the future?

DangerNoodle · Oct 12, 2016

Deftness has no effect

I might look into seeing how to mess with recovery time of missed strikes in a later pull request then. Unless you meant that it had no effects that involved weapons sticking in a foe, which was the original intent of my question.

illi-kun · Nov 1, 2016

@mugling It seems that you support obsolete version of PK rebalance mod (see https://github.com/pisskop/PKs_Rebalancing for actual version).

Do you have any idea how you (and other active devs) can announce significant changes in code to inform mod maintainers about required changes?

mugling · Nov 1, 2016

To be honest we probably should drop that mod from core as it's only going to languish there much like legacy blazemod did. Note to @pisskop you almost definitely want to pull the latest maintenance I did on your mod handling the change from edit-mode to copy-from before this happens.

We could do with a developer announcement issue. Something locked to developers that people could subscribe to notifications on?

illi-kun · Nov 1, 2016

I think it will be ideal solution.

mugling · Nov 1, 2016

The question is do we publish changes ad-hoc or on an episodic (weekly) basis?

illi-kun · Nov 1, 2016

I dunno. ad-hoc is better, I guess (since it's easier to miss something in weekly announces).

illi-kun · Nov 1, 2016

Re: drop the mod from core content.
For doing so, we need to provide a clear link to updated version of mod, so players will able to download & setup it easily (we don't need to enforce players to stop playing with this mod).

@remyroy I heard that a lot of people enjoy using your CDDA launcher. Is it possible to request you about a new feature - downloading fresh versions of mods from dedicated repos? I guess I need to write a feature request to your repo about that (in case you're interested in implementation of this feature)?

remyroy · Nov 1, 2016

@illi-kun Yes, please create an issue about it on https://github.com/remyroy/CDDA-Game-Launcher/issues/new

pisskop · Nov 1, 2016

Ill take the time to update it (pks_rebalancing) and reduce it to just what it promises, if you all dont mind.

DangerNoodle · Nov 1, 2016

I was going to say, Pisskop's mod is more actively maintained that Blazemod is.

pisskop · Nov 1, 2016

Does this allow for the same kind of abstraction as ammo?

Can I for instance create a template for a horse. Then add 1.2 attack to it for a zombied version, and then make a 0.8 version for fungus-infected version?

mugling · Nov 1, 2016

I was going to say, Pisskop's mod is more actively maintained that Blazemod is.

Yes I would agree although I suspect your confounding maintenance with expansion. Requiring significant maintenance is a burden on the developers. That the mod author continues to expand the mod is immaterial to this.

Ill take the time to update it (pks_rebalancing) and reduce it to just what it promises, if you all dont mind.

I set out in #19037 some possible criteria for mod inclusion:

reasonably broad appeal

an active maintainer

acceptable code standards

The third was a problem that I hoped to fix via linting. In particular when I updated edit-mode to copy-from I could use jq to make those changes automatically as that part of your mod had been linted. The ancillary problem was dispute over content - discussion is fine but past a certain point if there is no agreement the options are continue in your own branch or accept the developers decision.

Does this allow for the same kind of abstraction as ammo?

Yes it will although relative and proportional are not yet supported (but will be soon).

There are 47 mods in core which is an absolutely silly number to try and support with so few developers. No amount of opining or lengthy forum posts are going to change that fact.

The question with PK mod is what does the project as a whole gain by supporting the mod given it's relatively expensive to do so (genuine question, no snark intended)?

DangerNoodle · Nov 1, 2016

Yes I would agree although I suspect your confounding maintenance with expansion. Requiring significant maintenance is a burden on the developers. That the mod author continues to expand the mod is immaterial to this.

True. Having the mod author around makes it more likely that they will be able to respond to any issues that arise, but does not guarantee it.

As for other mods, that is why a lot of my pull requests have been directed towards mods that no longer have an active maintainer. No one else is available and/or willing to do so.

mugling · Nov 1, 2016

@remyroy could the auto-updater perhaps support a semi-stable weekly build instead? Do you have any statistics on how many players we have, their geographic distribution and update frequency?

@DangerNoodle the mod author doesn't do any maintenance on the mod - that's all done by me and @Coolthulhu. We had the same problem with blazemod until we did that linting exorcism a while ago.

DangerNoodle · Nov 1, 2016

@DangerNoodle the mod author doesn't do any maintenance on the mod - that's all done by me and sometimes @Coolthulhu. We had the same problem with blazemod until it will did that exorcism a while back via the linter.

I was unaware of that. My apologies for that.

mugling · Nov 1, 2016

It's a sincere question though what does the mod have to offer. On the one hand mods attract new developers but in our current situation we spend more time resolving issues with mods than actually working on the game.

remyroy · Nov 1, 2016

@mugling Yes. As long as those builds are somewhere I can list them, sure.

pisskop · Nov 1, 2016

If were going to make it possible for 3rd party mods to be used and updated in conjunction with the game updates than there is no reason to keep it there. Or any large content mod with an owner, really.

remyroy · Nov 1, 2016

@mugling I do not have any statistics on how many players we have, their geographic distribution or their update frequency. Maybe @narc0tiq has some logs on his server since he is the one hosting the actual binary files.

It might be interesting to do another player survey like I did last time (#14273) and include those questions.

narc0tiq · Nov 2, 2016

The live-ish stats at http://dev.narc.ro/awstats/awstats.pl might help, as
far as who downloads what and from where.

I'm not anywhere near a computer, so this is all I have.

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016, 21:15 Rémy Roy notifications@github.com wrote:

@mugling https://github.com/mugling I do not have any statistics on how
many players we have, their geographic distribution or their update
frequency. Maybe @narc0tiq https://github.com/narc0tiq has some logs on
his server since he is the one hosting the actual binary files.

I might be interesting to do another player survey like I did last time (
#14273 #14273) and
include those questions.

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remyroy · Nov 11, 2016

The latest version of the CDDA Game Launcher (1.3.5) uses a custom User-Agent header CDDA-Game-Launcher/[version] when making requests on *.narc.ro. It should be easy to identify if someone wants to create detailed statistics about it.

mugling changed the title ~~Remove stuck weapon penalty [WIP]~~ Remove stuck weapon penalty Oct 12, 2016

Drop CHOP, SLICE, NON_STUCK and STAB flags

191d1f1

mugling added some commits Oct 12, 2016

Fixup LUA definitions

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9e8be0a

Drop unused parameter

e6258d3

Update flags

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abaf1c9

Coolthulhu self-assigned this Oct 15, 2016

Coolthulhu merged commit 8d50091 into CleverRaven:master Oct 15, 2016
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default This has been rescheduled for testing as the 'master' branch has been updated.

illi-kun referenced this pull request Nov 1, 2016
Merged
Remove "CHOP" flag #7

illi-kun referenced this pull request Nov 1, 2016
Open
Feature request: Download & setup fresh versions of mods from dedicated repos #84

illi-kun referenced this pull request Nov 7, 2016
Closed
Base stuck weapon warning on percentage of moves rather than absolute number. #4037

DracoGriffin referenced this pull request Jun 15, 2018
Merged
Time to fix unbalanced weapons, like SPEAR_KNIFE #24005

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Remove stuck weapon penalty #18754

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mugling commented Oct 12, 2016 • edited

mugling changed the title Remove stuck weapon penalty [WIP] Remove stuck weapon penalty Oct 12, 2016

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Coolthulhu merged commit `8d50091` into CleverRaven:master Oct 15, 2016
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