Added mapgen entries in Arcana and Magic Items mod

[DangerNoodle]

Implements basement mapgen entries that were linked to me while working on pull request #18244.

I had stated that I would eventually look into it when I had the chance, as I do now. So far it seems acceptable, uncertain yet about the basement weights the mod author gave them.

Apologies if submitting something suggested by a former contributor is undesirable.

[mugling]

Long term if you're wanting to extend this mod you want to be considering starting a specific repo for it.

[DangerNoodle]

How do I do so?

[mugling]

The simplest way would be to open a new repo in your github account and then import the contents of the mod. You can then collaborate with others on the mod and offer updates via the forum. There is talk about @remyroy extending the autoupdater to support fetching mods from GH which would be an excellent feature.

[remyroy]

Mod versioning and releases would be a good thing too. I started a discussion about it with @pisskop on pisskop/PKs_Rebalancing#8

[mugling]

@remyroy what versioning scheme do you want to use? It's tempted just to use simple incrementing integers as it's very hard for mod authors to get that wrong. I'm not sure we need anything more complex than that?

[remyroy]

Anything that can be somewhat comparable would be nice. PEP 440 is an exhaustive version definition that already has good libraries that can be checked and compared against. A simple incrementing integer would fall into that definition.

[mugling]

We could go with interger versioning and an initially empty contrib directory?

[remyroy]

Sure, that could be what is suggested to the mod authors.

[mugling]

There is a lot to be said for simplicity. I can update the mod loading code to check mods first and then contrib so we can implement a smooth transition. Arcana or PK mod would be the logical two to start with especially as PK is already in it's own repo.

[DangerNoodle]

I am unsure how such a repository can be made to stay consistent with any changes to mainline though, and how to pull content from it into the main repository itself.

This also sounds like you are advocating removing Arcana from the main compiled game, which I am strongly against.

[mugling]

It will be up to the maintainer to maintain consistency with the game. The burden is going to be pushed from the core developers to the maintainers. On the flip side you can make edits without the oversight of the core developers.

[DangerNoodle]

That did not answer my question. Does doing so remove the mod from the core game? Because that does not sound like a good idea.

[mugling]

We can't support all 48 mods in core. Notwithstanding that if your wanting to extend the mod further then it's going to need to take place outside of core. See #19124 for more background but please keep your replies in this thread.

[DangerNoodle]

I am more concerned with maintaining the mod itself. I have no ideas for extending the mod further, I am only adding the content suggested to me by someone else.

Still, are you suggesting removing this mod from core, or simply not expanding upon it in core? That was a simple yes or no question.

[mugling]

You've been given the answer. If you want to either extend or maintain it it should be moved to it's own repo. @remyroy is working on extending the autoupdater to support third-party repos.

There isn't a need to ship conversion mods with the game and past this point it's unlikely purely from a workload perspective to expect ongoing maintenance from developers.

[DangerNoodle]

That would remove it from the compiled editions and make it as good as removed from the game.

[mugling]

Plenty of other mods survive on their merits without being shipped with the game. If the only thing that is keeping this mod alive is the fact we ship it then that isn't a reason per-se to support it. It's somewhat parasitic when you think about it that way.

[chaosvolt]

...are you serious. All the work I put into that mod, and you want to just throw it into the trash.

Or at best, you want the mod to become unofficial again, and hand it off to someone who doesn't know how to make a personal branch of the mod, instead of trusting it to the person who made the bloody thing in the first place. ಠ_ಠ

[mugling]

You can then collaborate with others on the mod

I did specifically have you in mind there. If you want to resume work on the mod in a third-party repo I can't see anyone objecting to that and indeed that might be the best way forward.

[DangerNoodle]

I would consider it better for the mod author to maintain their content via repository.

That said, it would make it significantly harder for contributors to become aware of bugs with the mod.

[mugling]

GH supports cross-reference bugs between repos. That said part of the reason is to make mod authors responsible for their content, bugs and all.

[DangerNoodle]

I am unsure how that works though. Where is this documented?

[mugling]

Try the github help

[DangerNoodle]

That might require permission from the repository where the issues are first being opened though.

[chaosvolt]

...hmm. Might as well make a repo for it and hope I don't fuck it up later. ._.

[DangerNoodle]

Content cited in #19128 could be useful to you as well, in that case. I have since determined the issue discovered was debug-only.

[chaosvolt]

More idiotproofing, sure. :V

[DangerNoodle]

I should likely maintain Mining Mod via the same method.

[pisskop]

I do support the idea that larger mods with a willing, active maintainer be moved out.

Smaller ones or ones that are utilitarian should not be.

[DangerNoodle]

I am still on the fence regarding this. For now though, I have implemented my Mining Mod at https://github.com/DangerNoodle/mining-mod, if it can be presented to others on the forum?

[mugling]

Try resubmitting this PR against chaosvolt/cdda-arcana-mod

[pisskop]

There is a lot to be said for simplicity. I can update the mod loading code to check mods first and then contrib so we can implement a smooth transition. Arcana or PK mod would be the logical two to start with especially as PK is already in it's own repo.

Im willing to do this, especially since I support the change.
but, Im lost for the python

[DangerNoodle]

Given Chaosvolt linked the mapgen entry to me via dropbox (see discussion in #18244), I checked and it would appear they already did so.

[chaosvolt]

I am still on the fence regarding this. For now though, I have implemented my Mining Mod at https://github.com/DangerNoodle/mining-mod, if it can be presented to others on the forum?

Might as well.

[chaosvolt]

I'll be honest though. I do not really want to continue maintaining this. Since February all I've wanted to do is just wash my hands of this project. But I keep coming back because I still care about the project, especially the parts I've expended time and effort into contributing.

And the reason I keep having to come back is due to this half-assed attitude towards mods. People think of them as third-party things when they are effectively part of the project. Their entire purpose is for all the little things decided to be not in line with the desired setting, gameplay, and game balance, but still seen as desirable.

I keep coming back to this because I seem to be the only person that still gives a shit about my old content. I have a repository for the mod now only as a backup in case someone forces the issue and removes the mod. I do not want to keep investing myself in the project anymore, unless I have to. I have enough to deal with both online and offline.

[DangerNoodle]

Understood. I myself do not think I can dedicate enough time to maintaining multiple mods. As it is, all I have been able to do is steadily pick up the slack as I encounter bugs. I am also of the opinion that we should not remove the Arcana and Magic Items mod, but an active maintainer for it would also be desirable.

Removing the mod would leave the same issue of no maintainer for the mod, whether they are submitting pull requests to this repository or to the mod backup repository. Given this implications of this (denying collective responsibility), I can understand the reasons for the mod author expressing frustration.

[DangerNoodle]

I do however object to the fix to martial arts not being added to the current version of the mod. Doing so increases the odds of a later change to martial arts causing inconsistencies between mainline and mod.

Additionally, some fixes and rebalancing appear to have been added to the version of the mod maintained by @chaosvolt, and it would seem acceptable to bring them into the current version of the game, without implementing the basement additions.

[chaosvolt]

I see no reason not to. My old method of overriding the martial arts is only going to cause more problems like that in the future. If they want to reduce the amount of time and effort they have to spend double-checking mods when changing JSON, then retaining the old method and closing this was kind of a bad idea.

But if adding new content was they only reason for closing it, then it should be fine to just add the streamlining and balancing. Especially given I could've bloody well sworn that Dark Priests had the symbol of judgement. Given their point cost, picking that profession is suicide.