Set default season length to 91 days

[kevingranade]

As close to 365 / 4 as is possible with a resolution of days.

Summary

SUMMARY: None
Changes the default season length to 91, and therefore the default year length to 364.

Purpose of change

With the recent proliferation of plant and animal growth based features, the default season length of 14 is increasingly problematic due to extremely long-term events becoming the norm rather than the exception. This sets the default to a sane real-world value without removing the ability of players to select the old behaviour should they desire.

It also announces the intent that choosing non-standard timespans can and will cause issues such as rendering farming non-functional.

Describe alternatives you've considered

Scaling other event durations such as crop growth and animal reproductive cycles is unpalatable due to both the never-ending nature of adjustments it requires, as well as unexpected side effects such as potentially causing greatly accelerated or decelerated maturation and reproduction.

[Robik81]

This certainly sets the phrase "I survived one year in Cataclysm" to whole new level.

I am not even sure I played any of my characters that long.

[Inglonias]

I'd propose a more medium-term default of 30 or 60 days.

Yes, this is user-configurable, but bear in mind that a new player typically uses the defaults on their first playthrough. One can argue that increasing season length heightens the already quite-high difficulty.

[kevingranade]

One can argue that increasing season length heightens the already quite-high difficulty.

You need to actually argue the point rather than saying it's possible.

As far as I can tell longer season lengths are strictly to the benefit of the player, outside of some initially harsh weather, the default start time is the beginning of spring, the best possible time for the player to get started.

Shorter seasons actually make things more difficult because the player has less time before winter sets in to prepare and set up farming.

[Regilith]

This will cause some unrealistic side effects, such as becoming a master martial artist / mechanic / gunsmith by reading books for a few days. It was sort of just handwaved as taking place over a longer period of time before - but now...

I'd also argue that the pace of the game is fundamentally based around 14 day seasons, through loot drops, skill gain rate, monster upgrades versus player power level timings, crop growth, spoilage, time investment required to reach food sustainability, etc.

Most players using the defaults will never live to see a winter, and a 91 day winter would be absolutely brutal, especially for Winter Start scenarios. Considering the pace of the game, 91 day seasons means your average survivor run will have no variability in setting, a perma-spring if you will, before the character hits end game, by which point the run is pretty much over.

I believe that if you don't address the pacing concerns, and players can still enter the end game within the first 30 days or so, you are going to end up with a boring survival experience. The current power progression curve won't support this standalone.

[Nickierv]

I like the longer season length, however 91 days feels bad in terms of divisibility, 90 is more open for sub-season events.
Early/Late season division is 45 days. Early/Mid/Late season is 30 days.

[Robik81]

Early/Mid/Late season is 30 days.

I actually quite like this idea, it might be cool to show this in the UI.

Like Early Spring, day 1 instead of current Spring, day 1 etc.

[tyrael93]

But that's stupid, the game works like shit without the default configs and nobody has ever actually bothered to fix it

[ZhilkinSerg]

But that's stupid, the game works like shit without the default configs and nobody has ever actually bothered to fix it

There were 22 bugfixes merged in last 14 days.

[BlindGuyNW]

I'm mostly curious what the intent is for future directions. Is the game meant to be balanced around the current time lengths for crafting, book learning, and such? Are those going to scale up to match the new default season length?

[kevingranade]

The consistent direction for years now has been that long-term events are scaled based on real-world time durations, this doesn't change that, it just updates the default season length to match the duration everything else is targeting already.

[BlindGuyNW]

Not sure if this is just my copy, but with the latest changes, I am still seeing a default length of 14, at least on the options screen. I have deleted my world, and I am trying to create a new one. The 91 day default is mentioned in the tool tip, but does not seem to be reflected in the option.

…

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On Sep 8, 2018, at 11:25 AM, Kevin Granade ***@***.***> wrote: The consistent direction for years now has been that long-term events are scaled based on real-world time durations, this doesn't change that, it just updates the default season length to match the duration everything else is targeting already. — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

[ZhilkinSerg]

I guess value of 14 is already saved in the options in config folder.

[hameleona]

I don't like it, mostly because it will make the game more boring IMO.
The game-day takes a lot of time to go trough. While I agree a lot of things may be coded with a bit of less math (how hard is it to divide by 6.5 to scale length well?). In a single game day I can drop several trees, build the whole blacksmiting infrastructure, learn 1/3 of what is needed to become a master swordsman and so on, and so on. People have already pointed out, that a lot of the game is geared around 14 day seasons. Will that be changed? Are we to spend 7 in-game days to gain a skill point from a book?
Things happening quickly has a big advantage - a players sees more for less time-investment. I don't even know if I'll have to ever deal with winter on a 90 day season. I have not played a character for 270 days. Before it was a scramble to survive the first winter - nether your base is finished, nether your death-mobile so you actually have to scramble for warm clothing, preserved food and good shelter, engaging in more game-play mechanics and exploring more of the game. I have yet to see somebody trying to defend "the player not engaging more game-systems" as a good thing. Maybe someone will point me to such a place.

Also I don't even want to think how much of an annoying shit winter will be with the broken temperature mechanics the game has.

[ZhilkinSerg]

a lot of the game is geared around 14 day seasons

That is incorrect assumption. Time-related values (i.e. construction/crafting time, spoiling time, etc) are based on real life values. We do not scale/balance them towards 14 days seasons (actually any other season length).

[latogato]

Time-related values (i.e. construction/crafting time, spoiling time, etc) are based on real life values.

Are you sure? I don't think anyone can make a grenade in 5 minutes, a t-shirt in 38 minutes or a bed in 1 hour. Except if the result is crude, terrible, makeshift.

[ZhilkinSerg]

Are you sure? I don't think anyone can make a grenade in 5 minutes, a t-shirt in 38 minutes or a bed in 1 hour. Except if the result is crude, terrible, makeshift.

Sure, there are multiple inconsistencies which should be updated to more realistic values.

[BevapDin]

It seems you have not changed calendar::season_from_default_ratio, which still assumes the default season length is 14. This affects time for brews (which are scaled by this). Is this intended?

[l29ah]

c82517a58fb src/calendar.cpp (BevapDin               2017-12-31 21:44:41 +0100 552)     static const int default_season_length = 14;