Half movement cost of most terrain

[BrianLefler]

This makes movement cost equal to 25 * move_cost/move_cost_mod instead of 50, and resets the numbers so terrain & furniture is generally half what it was before (except picket fences & opened windows which are same as before--150 & 200).

This is a bigger change than expected, but testing the player seems to move the right speed, zombies are still a bit slower than the player, and I'm still about to get 3-4 free hits on a zombies when kited into bushes or windows (more diagonally). So I think the balance isn't too bad. The forum post requesting this (http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=4696.30) got contentious, but there were 6 people in favor of reducing move cost and 2 against.

[KA101]

Make that 3 against, please. Not sure if the KS video's intended as actual game advice, though @GlyphGryph & company went to some trouble to demonstrate the power of kiting. Nerfing that seems unnecessary.

(I don't recall any objections to being allowed to go without sleep for days on end, without any penalty.)

[John-Candlebury]

I just felt like restating my opposition to this change.

Even if I am nobody in particular

[BrianLefler]

Can you guys try it out first?

I'm not trying to ruin anyone's party and I think I've given the wrong impression about the extent of this change. In testing, kiting remained an effective tactic at a 250 movement cost, more effective than I expected. My random unskilled survivor was still attacking standard zombies 3-4 times without a counterswing. Then I can step back and get another 3-4 hits as the monster takes the same penalty leaving the bush. So 6+ free hits. I honestly thought there was a bug until I tried the same thing in the base game and discovered that at 400 move_cost, I could get 12 free punches on a fat zombie using the same tactic (possibly more, but it was dead).

[Nickboom1]

No, stuff is already nerfed to all hell. Also 6 to 2 isnt that great and a tiny TINY fraction of the amount of people. Also a fat zombie is naturally slower then others. Also what weapon where you using I could only get about 2 or 3 hits not 12+.

[BrianLefler]

I'm experimenting at the old value of 400 with an unskilled, unarmed survivor punching a standard zombie, kited horizontally into a bush.
7 attacks (1 miss), then the zombie counterattacked. Then I backed up a square and should have been able to do it again (I can't verify, because it died after 1 more hit, but that's what happened with the fat zombie and the behavior matches what's in code).

I had picked punches because they were low damage, but I just realized they're ~60 move per attack, so that's going to get more hits than a 100 move-per weapons like nailboards. Another test in base with a nailboard and got 7 total against a zombie cop (3 hits before counterattack on the bush, 4 hits after stepping back). What weapon are you using? Are you backing up after the zombie counterattacks and hitting him then?

[John-Candlebury]

I still think that there are better ways to tackle the issue, for example having each attack you do towards a monster in a bush (or any other piece of damageable furniture) having a 1 in 3 random chance of alsosmashing it, so luring zombies into them is still as advantageous but you just cant use that single bush to clear the whole block

[GlyphGryph]

Does this change the move cost for players/monsters on flat ground?

[BrianLefler]

Not in-game, still 100.

I changed the multiplier went from from 50 to 25 so I needed to change all
the JSON from 2 to 4 to keep flat ground constant. I changed the
multiplier in the first place bc we currently have terrain at 150, 200,
250, and 300 which I didn't want to smash all together into just 150&200.
So now we can have (for example) picket fences at 150 but railings at 125.

[kevingranade]

I'd be happy with misses having a chance of converting to bashes in the target square, but that's not exclusive of this. 7 hits against a zombie (or even 6) with an average speed weapon is quite a lot, especially since you can just kite to another bush if needed.

[AnderHammer]

I'm fine with this.

Just adding another voice, and one that isn't addicted to bush abuse.

[Rivet-the-Zombie]

Yeah, I'm okay with this. Bushes shouldn't slow a creature down THAT much unless it's maybe something like a 'dense thorn bush' or something.

Piles of rubble, house windows (a lot of healthy people have a hard time trying to crawl through those) and the like, or huge piles of corpses all make sense to drastically slow you down as you move past them - but not the common bush.

[atomicdryad]

warning regardless of this being good or bad (I need to test before forming an opinion), there are a few movecost <=> 2 assumptions:

[0]mapgen_sanity_the_journey_continues[root@cylon]/2/c/pr> egrep -ri 'move.*cost' -A 2 --include='*.cpp' src/|egrep -i '[<>=][^a-z
_\)\(]\b2\b'|egrep -v '//.*\b2\b'
src/map.cpp:    if ((move_cost(x, y) == 2 && !hit_items) || !INBOUNDS(x, y))
src/game.cpp:  if ((!u.has_trait("PARKOUR") && m.move_cost(x, y) > 2) ||
src/game.cpp:   if (veh1 && m.move_cost(x,y) != 2)
src/iuse.cpp: } else if (g->m.move_cost(dirx, diry) == 2 && g->levz != -1 &&
src/iuse.cpp: } else if (g->m.move_cost(dirx, diry) == 2 && g->levz != -1 &&
src/iuse.cpp: if (g->m.move_cost(posx, posy) != 2) {
src/iuse.cpp:  if ((g->m.move_cost(posx    , posy - 1) != 2 &&
src/iuse.cpp:       g->m.move_cost(posx    , posy + 1) != 2   ) ||
src/iuse.cpp:      (g->m.move_cost(posx + 1, posy    ) != 2 &&
src/iuse.cpp:       g->m.move_cost(posx - 1, posy    ) != 2   ) ||
src/iuse.cpp:      (g->m.move_cost(posx - 1, posy - 1) != 2 &&
src/iuse.cpp:       g->m.move_cost(posx + 1, posy + 1) != 2   ) ||
src/iuse.cpp:      (g->m.move_cost(posx + 1, posy - 1) != 2 &&
src/iuse.cpp:       g->m.move_cost(posx - 1, posy + 1) != 2   )) {
src/iuse.cpp:    if (g->m.move_cost(posx + i, posy + j) != 2) {
src/mapgen.cpp:                        if (move_cost(x, y) == 2) {
src/player.cpp:             terlist[ter_at_pos].movecost <= 2 ?

[KA101]

Closed as outdated. Sorry, BrianLefler.