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CQB Bionic #6334

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merged 12 commits into from Mar 17, 2014

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@OvenBaker
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commented Feb 27, 2014

"I know kung-fu!"

Activating this bionic grants you access to Karate, Judo and Tiger Style Kung-fu whilst it remains powered. Great for Manchurian candidates and Neo impersonators!

} else if (power_level >= bio_data.power_cost ||
(weapon_id == "bio_claws_weapon" && bio_id == "bio_claws_weapon") ||
(weapon_id == "bio_blade_weapon" && bio_id == "bio_blade_weapon")) {
int b = tmp - &my_bionics[0];

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@Soyweiser

Soyweiser Feb 27, 2014

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Why remove that line? Wasn;t it important for the activated bionics?

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@OvenBaker

OvenBaker Feb 27, 2014

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Didn't get removed, just got moved earlier in the method so as to be used in the deactivate_bionic function. Made sense to match their signatures for ease of use.

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@Soyweiser

Soyweiser Feb 27, 2014

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Nevermind then. Thanks for clarifying.

@Soyweiser

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commented Feb 27, 2014

I like this PR. Knowledge software!

@@ -389,6 +389,14 @@
"description": "You possess razor-sharp retractable claws underneath your fingernails, ten double-edged blades four centimeters in length that do a small amount of unarmed slashing damage whenever your fingertips are uncovered."
},{
"type" : "bionic",
"id" : "bio_cqb",
"name" : "Close Quarter Battle",

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@KA101

KA101 Feb 27, 2014

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Quarters (sorry).

@KA101

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commented Feb 27, 2014

Interesting idea. I can accept some level of skillsoft (the Enhanced Memory Banks and all) though I'm not sold on this particular implementation being (in-game) ready-to-go.

a) It's one thing to have a backup saving your knowledge as you go. It's another to be able to flash knowledge into someone's brain and have it perfectly accessible. I'm thinking this might be a good candidate for a one-off Lab or MilUnderground room, rather than in the mainstream rolls.

b) Tiger Kung Fu is one of the best styles in the game. Judo simply can't compete, and Karate is better defensively but still isn't on the same tier. (And both of those can be permanently & fairly easily obtained from raiding a dojo or two.) I'd suggest knocking Tiger down to Muay Thai or Krav Maga; maybe Ninjutsu.

b.1) Longer-term issue with bionics giving a Kung Fu form is that I'd like to make those quest/dungeon rewards and upgrade their buffs/techs a little: making a KF user somewhat cinematic, basically. As such I'm hesitant to have the style stored on a chip in one's head (or if it is, have there be something not the same). But that's long-term so not controlling here.

So yeah. I like the general idea, but I'm not sold on the implementation. :-/ Sorry.

@Zireael07

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commented Feb 27, 2014

Maybe have a separate bionic for every martial art style?

@dwarfkoala

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commented Feb 27, 2014

What if you required enhanced memory banks or a human- computer interface
bionic in order to use these things?

@Rivet-the-Zombie

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commented Mar 3, 2014

How about instead of giving you normal combat styles that anybody can learn, it gave you a special cyborg combat style instead?

@OvenBaker

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commented Mar 3, 2014

@KA101 rather than having it push knowledge directly into the brain, I figure the CBM overrides your muscles and basically slaves your body. Whilst it's active, you'll notice you can't select any of your normal styles... only the options it provides. An interesting extension could be for it to also set your unarmed combat, melee and dodge scores to 4 or something and prevent learning.
@Rivet-the-Zombie totally possible, any ideas for "flavour" for the style. I'd imagine it's a Krav Maga type "practical" style, unless you go the other way and have it add options for the arm blade / fingertip razors and such.

@KA101

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commented Mar 4, 2014

I'd considered much the same approach, OvenBaker. It's workable.

@kevingranade

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commented Mar 4, 2014

A cyborg-specific style is a really neat idea, the general concept it makes me think of is that it launches general-purpose attacks that you merely aim a bit, high levels of finesse like t'ai chi or Akido style force redirections are more about intuition and reading your opponent than anything else, so you couldn't pull those off, but hard blocks, punches, kicks, even highly technical sweep kicks etc would be wide open for use. On the other hand if you can make a grab, joint locks and more brute force throws are also mostly memorized patterns (no offense intended to practitioners). More food for thought and less practical direction, sorry :)

@KA101

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commented Mar 4, 2014

Yeah, thinking Cyborjutsu (for lack of a better name) from the chip comes at melee/cutting/unarmed 4 or 5 and locks you into that rank whilst the chip is active. It's good stuff on that chip & skillwires--otherwise they wouldn't install it--but it preempts any real development or mastery on your part.

Kevin provides useful input from someone who actually practices T'ai Chi

No worries, that's good info to have: stuff like DDA!Taekwondo, Muay Thai, or even Krav Maga would probably work, but Perception-heavy styles shouldn't (and neither should the Kung Fu forms?)

CQB Bionic now sets combat skills (melee, unarmed, bashing, cutting, …
…stabbing) to 4 whilst active and disables learning.
@OvenBaker

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commented Mar 4, 2014

Updated it so that the main offensive combat stats are set to 4 whilst the bionic is active. I've got a concern now that I don't know what place this bionic has outside of a profession. Given that it integrates into the nervous system, it requires high skills to install. By the time a player gets there, it's mostly worthless to them as they'll likely have the martial styles and better skills to boot. I can see it being a nice choice to boost a profession, though. Possibly worth removing the CBM item so that it doesn't appear in normal play...

@KA101

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commented Mar 4, 2014

  1. Crank it up to 5, then. 4 is "entry-level professional"; 5 is mid-grade.

  2. It helps folks who weren't previously melee fighters: I'm a 90%+ melee fighter when/if I play, and likewise there are folks who'd gasp at the thought of going toe-to-toe with critters. Installing a bionic that lets you turn on Melee Skillz may be more palatable than starting a new character.
    2a) Once the chip runs you through the basics of the style (say, you've done every tech X amount of times?) you can have the stye wit the chip off, and then work up naturally? You don't have the training to actually Know the style, but you kinda remember what it was putting you through, so you can start practicing with the chip off.

  3. Rivet's suggestion is inspirational: how about having the cyberweapons included in the style, so the monoblade and claws get buffs and techs?

@grisamentum

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commented Mar 7, 2014

Maybe the bionic should be the equivalent of a brain USB slot, and you'd need to find a USB stick with kung fu software. (Requires power while running.)

It could also lead to hilarious situations where you don't know what's on a USB stick, and you have to insert it in to your brain USB slot to find out what it is. Maybe it's something amazing like Tiger Kung Fu. Maybe it's something terrible like advertising software that makes you sing a jingle for Atomic Coffee every 1 hour. Maybe it's something in between like "judo, sponsored by National Bank" that gives you judo but makes you spout advertisements in conversation with NPCs.

@Soyweiser

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commented Mar 7, 2014

Identification minigame!! I like it. But iirc we didn't want that.

@KA101

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commented Mar 7, 2014

Identification minigame!! I like it. But iirc we didn't want that.

Correct. Item-ID is a great way to enforce very specific metagaming and promotes "in the know" folks over newcomers. DDA doesn't need artificial barriers to entry. No thanks.

@kevingranade

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commented Mar 15, 2014

A cyborg-specific style would be super nice, but that isn't a hard requirement for merge to me. A follow up PR (from anyone) can swap in a new cyborg style for the placeholder styles it uses now? Thoughts?

@KA101

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commented Mar 16, 2014

I haven't looked at this in a while. Would want to restrict to Lab finale, but apart from that, you want it in, I can look into making that happen.

@OvenBaker

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commented Mar 16, 2014

Work happened, hence work on this was delayed for a while.

I've added a Bionic Combatives style to tie into the bionic. Straightforward strikes, karate-like, with the extra that it grants you arm and leg blocks only if you have the appropriate armor CBM. It does have a few special techniques for the claw and blade CBMs just to make it thematic. You have a 1-in-1000 (at int 8, improved by higher stat) chance to learn a style you're using through the CBM on each attack. I haven't had this proc in testing at this difficulty, although I verified it by temporarily lowering the chance. Should be appropriately uncommon.

@KA101 KA101 self-assigned this Mar 16, 2014

@KA101 KA101 merged commit e37f210 into CleverRaven:master Mar 17, 2014

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@OvenBaker OvenBaker deleted the OvenBaker:cqb-bionic branch Mar 17, 2014

@KA101 KA101 referenced this pull request Apr 27, 2014

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Close Quarter bionic quirks #7439

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