Seasonal forage #8420

Reaper42 · Aug 3, 2014

Apples can get only autumn, berries - summer, mushrooms - summer/autumn, eggs, flowers - all seasons but winter.
All wild food can take only from apple tree/shrubs.
Much less food from forage (eggs/wild vegs.)

Robik81 · Aug 3, 2014

Bird eggs are laid in spring and my guess is that reptile eggs is the same case.
Do we have blackberries and cranberries shrubs? In not, this will completely remove them from forest.
Didn't make the math, but from the look on the code, the forage chance is extremely low and combined with seasonal foraging it looks like overkill. In other words, nobody will bother to ever do that... especially at the start of the game, where the chance is like 1% to find something.
You may be forced to forage for eggs late game - for mutagen. With Survival 10, you have like 1% chance to forage 1-2 eggs...

I like the idea of seasonal foraging, but balancing seems off.

KA101 · Aug 3, 2014

KA101 reviewed Aug 3, 2014

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KA101 · Aug 3, 2014

src/game.cpp

            add_msg(m_good, _("You found a nest with some eggs!"));
            if (!one_in(4)) {
-                m.spawn_item(u.posx, u.posy, "egg_bird", rng(2, 5), 0, calendar::turn);
+                m.spawn_item(u.posx, u.posy, "egg_bird", rng(1, 2), 0, calendar::turn);


Eggs are tough to get to in the foraging check, underbrush is only forage-able once per underbrush, and eggs not only are eggs nutritious food and useful for cooking, but late-game mutagen crafting requires eggs in quantity.

Reducing the amount dropped may be realistic, but then requires unrealistic effort on the player's part. I'm gonna ask you to revert this reduction, and the one in lizard eggs. Thanks.

KA101 · Aug 3, 2014

KA101 reviewed Aug 3, 2014

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KA101 · Aug 3, 2014

src/iexamine.cpp

@@ -983,6 +983,9 @@ void iexamine::fswitch(player *p, map *m, int examx, int examy)
 }

 void iexamine::flower_poppy(player *p, map *m, int examx, int examy) {
+  if (calendar::turn.get_season() == WINTER) {
+        add_msg(m_info, _("This frower is dead. You can't get it."));


"flower"

Apart from the typo, heartily approved. It's gonna be hell on Proboscis folks, but that's a downside of being an insect.

Rivet-the-Zombie · Aug 3, 2014

Looks great!

Reaper42 · Aug 3, 2014

Bird eggs are laid in spring and my guess is that reptile eggs is the same case.

eggs, flowers - all seasons but winter.

Do we have blackberries and cranberries shrubs? In not, this will completely remove them from forest.

No. Yes.

Didn't make the math, but from the look on the code, the forage chance is extremely low and combined with seasonal foraging it looks like overkill.

2% with 4 Survival and 8 PER. 50 forage acts give 2-4 (4-10) eggs. 10 eggs give 300 nutrition after cooking. 300 nutrition - one day ration. 50 forage acts is ~30 minutes of game time. Balance is dead, you right.

With Survival 10, you have like 1%

5% with if character not blind.

Robik81 · Aug 3, 2014

Starting character can get survival skill to 2 reasonably fast, lets say his PER is 8. Chance of finding something in underbrush for such player is currently 4 + 0 + 5 = 9% or 1 in 10 foraging action yield something. This might be too high.

After change, it is 1 + 0 / 3 = 1% or 1 in 100 foraging action yield something (IMO crazy)

I would go with formula if (veggy_chance < (u.skillLevel("survival") + (u.per_cur - 8) + 3))
which would be 2 + 0 + 3 = 5%

For character with SURV 10, percentages go 25% (current formula), 5% (Reaper formula), 13% (my formula)

Robik81 · Aug 3, 2014

Bird eggs are laid in spring - I meant in real live, I got it that in your PR it is all but winter.

Your percentages are for successful forage action, but for eggs, it is 1/6 of that. Rest is wild vegetable.

Reaper42 · Aug 3, 2014

25% ... 13%

When you calc it i play and do 50 forage acts and find 2 (5) eggs. SURV skill raise to 2, per - 12 (+1% bonus)

After change, it is 1 + 0 / 3 = 1% or 1 in 100 foraging action yield something (IMO crazy)

You think it easy to find any eggs in forest? 100 forage checks = 100 turns = 10 minutes. Find 2-5 eggs in 10 minutes is very well for city worm.

Your percentages are for successful forage action, but for eggs, it is 1/6 of that. Rest is wild vegetable.

Yes, if you talk about summer/autumn

(veggy_chance < (u.skillLevel("survival") + (u.per_cur - 8) + 3))

SURV 4 = 5% SURV 4; PER 12 = 9%
If change to find 5% and more you get too many eggs and can don't care about food.

Robik81 · Aug 3, 2014

Small sample for any meaningful statistics. But you do not need statistic in this case as mathematic formula is simple.

Also, it is not only question of how hard it is to forage. But if it is viable option against other alternatives. If you go overboard with the nerf, everyone will just say FF (f*ck forest) and go loot the city as much better food source. Another question is how much fun is it? It may be true, that you can sustain yourself if you will forage 100 underbushes per day, but it would be extremely boring to do so.

KA101 · Aug 3, 2014

I think some breaks from reality are important, especially since we've recently made weather a bit of a pain at game start. As for the formula, agreed that we're not making hardmode the default, so +1 to +3 (down from the current +5) makes sense. Let the folks have some chance to survive and make their time worthwhile.

In short, I like the seasonal-lockouts, but making the base formula harder seems like a nontrivial change and one that we ought to discuss separately. (I'd prefer to make it a difficulty option, but option-growth tends to be a contentious issue of itself.)

To that end: I'm pulling this for mergetest, but reverting the formula change in the process. Apologies for not noticing & mentioning it earlier, Reaper; feel free to propose reducing it in a separate PR.

Robik81 · Aug 3, 2014

Agree. No reason to keep seasonal foraging, which is change for the better, out just because of balancing debate we can have in separate PR.

Reaper42 · Aug 3, 2014

but it would be extremely boring to do so.

Automated forage?

And so what? SUR + (PRE - 8 ) + 3 and merge? It not important for me, i just flaming.

KA101 · Aug 3, 2014

And so what? SUR + (PRE - 8 ) + 3 and merge? It not important for me, i just flaming.

I'm not sure whether that's angry, unhappy, or shrug and leaving it. Would appreciate some clarification, as "I just flaming" could mean a few different things.

Reaper42 · Aug 3, 2014

Flaming != gabbing?
I can easy make patch for it and i can easy change this code. Otherwise I would have been sad.
I do SUR + (PRE - 8 ) + 3 ?

KA101 · Aug 3, 2014

"Flaming" as speech/writing, so far as I know, is "attacking/insulting/complaining". It's a negative sort of speech.

Once this gets merged--I've gotta verify BevapDin's rework too--then yeah, change it to +3 and file a PR. I'll likely support you as initial testing on +5 garnered eggs without too much trouble.

Right now, I've got it, no worries, you're gonna get in. (There was a check that was && when it should have been ||, but that was trivial to fix once I detected it.)

Reaper42 · Aug 3, 2014

(!one_in(6) && (calendar::turn.get_season() == SUMMER || calendar::turn.get_season() == AUTUMN))

There is all ok.

KA101 · Aug 4, 2014

Uh, sorry, fixed in the merge. Thanks though.

Catabot [Cataclysm-DDA] KA101 pushed 17 new commits to master: http://git.io/sYU57g
Catabot Cataclysm-DDA/master 8e5c7a4 Reaper: Forage fixes.
Catabot Cataclysm-DDA/master 3922561 Reaper: Merge branch 'master' into balance

KA101 · Aug 4, 2014

Closing because of the Git traffic-jam causing it to think it's not merged. Apologies for the confusion: this made it into mainline.

Reaper42 · Aug 4, 2014

Ok.

Robik81 · Aug 4, 2014

@KA101 Veggy formula that got in divides SURV by 2 instead of multiplying it by 2.

Is that intentional?

KA101 · Aug 4, 2014

Nope. File a PR if you're not getting enough forage.

Robik81 · Aug 4, 2014

I will make balancing PR - with charts and stuff and link It here.

KA101 · Aug 4, 2014

Ok, yeah, do that.

Robik81 · Aug 4, 2014

Proposed change PR
#8434

Reaper42 added some commits Jul 26, 2014

Forage fixes.

8e5c7a4

Merge branch 'master' into balance

3922561

Merge branch 'balance' of file:///home/user/git/Cataclysm-DDA/ into b…
…alance

c49f324

Tweaks

b5eb9d9

No food on ground

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3c0a8c9

KA101 self-assigned this Aug 3, 2014

Fix

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f2c1701

KA101 closed this Aug 4, 2014

Tweak food forage change

e0f4145

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Seasonal forage #8420

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