[READY] Fencing Equipment

[Snaaty]

What it says on the can.

It adds:

• Fencing Jacket
• Fencing Mask
• Fencing Hood
• Lets all of the above spawn with sport-y things
• EDIT: - Fencing Foil
• I suppose this is ready for merging?

[Rivet-the-Zombie]

No fencing foil?

[Snaaty]

You mean foil as in foil, epee and sabre?
If so, I will add those later, but someone once told me to not do too much within one pull request.
Can I put the foils and stuff on the same branch as this one?

[Rivet-the-Zombie]

I'd say since it's all thematically related, and all code related (it's all just json items) it would be fine.

[Snaaty]

Okay, I'll do that next then.
One question, though: If I want to make the fencing weapons useful for stapping zombies, does it make sense to add a recipe to craft a new, "improved" weapon e.g. by using a soldering iron to add some metal pieces and remove others?
I just can't stand the idea of having regular fencing weapons but they're no use in fighting zombies.

[kevingranade]

For the most part foils would be useless at fighting zombies, there are
no precise targets to go after. Epee and sabre would perform better.
What 'bits' are you proposing to add to make them more effective?

[Rivet-the-Zombie]

Okay, I'll do that next then.
One question, though: If I want to make the fencing weapons useful for stapping zombies, does it make sense to add a recipe to craft a new, "improved" weapon e.g. by using a soldering iron to add some metal pieces and remove others?
I just can't stand the idea of having regular fencing weapons but they're no use in fighting zombies.

No need for a special recipe, we've already got this; it's what reinforcing a melee weapon already does.

For the most part foils would be useless at fighting zombies, there are no precise targets to go after. Epee and sabre would perform better.

I'd think a fencing foil would still be better than nothing, and might even be kinda-sorta okay so long as you poked at your target's eyes and such.

I mean, this is a game where you can face down your foes with a spork or an empty beer can as your weapon, so suboptimal damage output doesn't really seem like a hard limiting factor.

[KA101]

I was the one being forceful re PRs, and that was for unrelated things. Fencing gear is all related to itself, and you could probably throw in a fencing salon with spawn point for the book without being out of scope. (Could also be a gymnastics gym: the fencing courses I took IRL took place in a college wrestling room and later at a gymnastics school.)

I was considering the same idea, hadn't had the time.

Re swords, I'd make the found ones bated: rounded metal ball instead of a point, and let's assume you took the rubber cap off. 2 points piercing, no bashing, not DURABLE_MELEE. They're designed to bend if you stab someone, not pierce, and those safety features are not desirable in a combat weapon.

Sorry, Rivet, but I would not want to fight zombies with the foils I used in class. I'd do more damage with a TKD side-kick to the zombie's chest than I would with a fencing stab.

Fabrication can reinforce the blade and sharpen the tip. More like 5-10 piercing, 1-2 bashing, durable, I'd imagine. The rapier should still be better.

[KA101]

Additional thought: fencing swords are designed to accept an electrical charge for scoring purposes. I'm sure some enterprising survivor could up the voltage. Shock-sabres, etc would be entirely acceptable from my perspective.

[KA101]

Uh, the masks I wore (over a decade ago, granted) were steel mesh, rigid and tightly woven. Gets hot/sweaty and can make it tougher to breathe if you're exerting yourself for more than 10-15 minutes, and definitely impairs perception for trap-spotting purposes. Would easily justify 2-3 eye and mouth encumbrance, and I wouldn't make 'em fittable.

Fencing masks are NOT an everyday-wear item. ;-)

[Rivet-the-Zombie]

The only fencing foil I've ever had the opportunity to handle had a blunted tip, but it was more like the end of the 'blade' had been drawn thin and annealed around a mandrel to make a sort of loop out of the end of it. It definitely wasn't sharp, but I wouldn't want somebody poking me in the eyes with it.

Either way that it's blunted, it seems to me that filing the end off to a point (which would necessitate a second item and a recipe to do so) would make it into a fairly effective, if not particularly durable, stabbing weapon.

[KA101]

Agreed that most foils nowadays are somewhat pointier than the ones I've had the opportunity to use. And yeah, sharpening the point and reinforcing the blade were what I'd been thinking of doing.

[kevingranade]

To clarify, I'm not saying sharpened foils should do no damage, just a
fairly minimal amount on zombies, they'd definitely qualify for the precise
quality (if that's still around?)
I was reading, "useful for stabbing zombies" as "similar damage to other
swords".

[Snaaty]

Thanks all of you for your suggestions! I really appreciate it!

I will do the changes to the fencing masks, that you proposed, KA101.

So, should I add the different types of fencing weapons as well? IIRC, they're pretty much the same for non-fencing (but zombie-stabbing) reasons.
I agree, that those fencing weapons should not be able to deal real damage. Reinforcing the weapon is certainly a way, but I believe creating a recipe to change some things, to reduce the "bendiness", my attaching metal and to sharpen the tip is a good way to make them less terrible. Preferably this could be done early, so that the Fencing Profession can make some use of their starting foil.

EDIT: I would also like to add a recipe to cut out the eyes and mouth areas of the fencing mask, so it can perhaps be worn as a sem-normal piece of armour.

EDIT2: Shock sabres! Yay!
EDIT3: How would I go about to add those shock sabres?
I'm no electrician, so I don't really know how to do those things.

[kevingranade]

Adding stiffeners? That doesn't sound like a reasonable thing to do at
all. What kind of damage are you thinking of for an 'improved' foil? I'm
thinking a ballpark of pierce 5 at the most, with the precise attribute if
it's still around.

[Snaaty]

A fencing foil will easily bend if you stab something with it. Making it not-bendable should increase the force, don't you think?
I already gave the fencing foil that we have now the precise tag, I assume it's still working, it used by the stingers, for example.

[KA101]

KA101 shrugs

Kevin wants to keep the foils non-rigid, so be it.

[kevingranade]

I don't mean making it stiffer is a bad idea, I mean you're liable to ruin
the weapon trying to do it.

[KA101]

I don't mean making it stiffer is a bad idea, I mean you're liable to ruin the weapon trying to do it.

Uh, then it's a bad idea, Kevin. ;-P

[EnticingPuddles]

Hey guys, since I am a fencer, I can tell you that reinforcing a foil would definitely increase its damage, since the bendiness of fencing weapons is part of what makes it safe to use, but it would also make the foil break, since bending is the foil's way of avoiding snapping. Epees on the other hand, are already pretty stiff (since they're thicker) and would probably make much better weapons than foils. Sabers would also be pretty dangerous (I got a chunk of my finger taken out by a saber once. Don't stand next to a saber bout)

On the topic of fencing gear, it hasn't been legal to use purely cotton fencing gear since 1982. Nowadays fencing gear is required to be made with super tough synthetic fabrics inside (basically Kevlar except bleach resistant). I think it would make sense for jackets and knickers to have Kevlar/Cotton as materials instead of cotton/leather or just cotton. Also, from experience, fencing masks aren't that bad to wear. They're a little stuffy in the summer, but not uncomfortable (if they fit well).

TL;DR:
Reinforcing a foil would increase it's damage output, but make it break pretty easily
Epees and sabers would be much better weapons
Fencing gear is made of Kevlar and cotton
Fencing masks are a little stuffy, but not uncomfortable

PS: all fencing weapons are made of steel, and foils and sabers weigh 500g, while Epees weigh 750g.

Hope I was helpful

[KA101]

Thanks for the info, EnticingPuddles. Feel free to comment on the Fencing style, if you like.

[Snaaty]

Okay, thanks for the details. I will try to change the data accordingly.
I have only fenced once in my life, so I am sorry, that I didn't get the details all right.

[KA101]

Snaaty: 's OK. We appreciate you putting in the time and effort.