I suggest adding statistics for Aural style sheets which contain CSS properties such as "speak.... #1515

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Fyrd opened this Issue May 12, 2015 · 25 comments

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Fyrd commented May 12, 2015

I suggest adding statistics for Aural style sheets which contain CSS properties such as "speak."
Aural Style sheets: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/aural.html


This issue was imported from Google Moderator

Moderator votes: +3
Issue added by Rebecca on 2013-10-11
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+1

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hidde commented Aug 12, 2015

+1

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tyxla commented Apr 6, 2016

+1

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@cvrebert cvrebert referenced this issue Aug 31, 2016

Closed

CSS Aural #2768

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cvrebert Aug 31, 2016

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(Aural has been superseded by http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-speech/ )

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cvrebert commented Aug 31, 2016

(Aural has been superseded by http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-speech/ )

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+1

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frob Oct 11, 2016

There is very little info on this. It would be great for this to be included.

+1

frob commented Oct 11, 2016

There is very little info on this. It would be great for this to be included.

+1

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rogerfrace commented Oct 17, 2016

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blzaugg commented Jul 22, 2017

+1

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pat270 commented Jul 22, 2017

+1

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+1

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Malvoz commented Nov 7, 2017

+1

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frob May 16, 2018

Why is there no movement on this three year old issue.

frob commented May 16, 2018

Why is there no movement on this three year old issue.

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techieshark May 16, 2018

CSS 2.1 Aural has been deprecated: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Aural

As @rogerfrace pointed out, for CSS 3 there's the Speech module.

The CSS Speech module is a re-work of the informative CSS2.1 Aural appendix, within which the "aural" media type was described, but also deprecated (in favor of the "speech" media type). Although the [CSS21] specification reserves the "speech" media type, it doesn't actually define the corresponding properties. The Speech module describes the CSS properties that apply to the "speech" media type..

@frob note that this issue is currently behind 4 others in the list of requested features so there's clearly interest. And maybe we can other developers to +1 this?

Suggestions for where to go from here:

  1. We should close this issue, and move discussion (and +1's to here: #1240 )

  2. Anyone with time could contribute a pull request. For base data, you could start here.

Sidenote, I just ran across a good article about CSS Speech. (Also, you'd think with the popularity of voice based devices this will become increasingly important!)

techieshark commented May 16, 2018

CSS 2.1 Aural has been deprecated: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Aural

As @rogerfrace pointed out, for CSS 3 there's the Speech module.

The CSS Speech module is a re-work of the informative CSS2.1 Aural appendix, within which the "aural" media type was described, but also deprecated (in favor of the "speech" media type). Although the [CSS21] specification reserves the "speech" media type, it doesn't actually define the corresponding properties. The Speech module describes the CSS properties that apply to the "speech" media type..

@frob note that this issue is currently behind 4 others in the list of requested features so there's clearly interest. And maybe we can other developers to +1 this?

Suggestions for where to go from here:

  1. We should close this issue, and move discussion (and +1's to here: #1240 )

  2. Anyone with time could contribute a pull request. For base data, you could start here.

Sidenote, I just ran across a good article about CSS Speech. (Also, you'd think with the popularity of voice based devices this will become increasingly important!)

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brennanyoung May 16, 2018

Good to see some discussion!

And thanks for the excellent css-tricks link. It touches on various topics I think are under-explored.

I'd be happy to see this issue closed and migrate our attentions to #1240

I was aware about CSS 2.1 Aural -> CSS 3 speech. Although there is very little information about what is currently going on with CSS 3 speech implementations. Caniuse is the first place I look for such data, so the vacuum is striking. The impression given is that the whole effort is stagnating or even deprecated, although this must certainly be incorrect.

Primarily there should be coverage in caniuse of CSS 3 speech, with CSS 2.1 Aural mentioned in a stub that points to the CSS 3 speech resources.

As I see it, there are two 'real-world' usage concerns here:

  1. Browser support for css 3 speech
  2. Screenreader support for css3 speech

It's all very well if a browser doesn't complain about css3 speech properties, or even does something useful with them, when using the speech synth features, but until screenreaders are standard features of ordinary browsers (go Opera!), what (I believe) we most sorely need is data about how screenreaders handle those properties.

Perhaps bolt-on screenreaders fall out of the scope of caniuse. But what to make of browser vendors that have delegated screenreading to the OS they themselves control. (viz. Apple's Safari with VoiceOver and Microsoft's Edge/IE with Narrator)? It's reasonable to expect that these vendors have allocated some 'design thinking' resources to how the browser and the system-level screen reader interact, and web content professionals will need to know how well they are doing.

Screenreader support for css3 speech is something that needs tracking somewhere, now that WCAG is being mandated across North America, in the EU and in various other regions. If not in caniuse, then where?

It's time to get the ball moving again.

Good to see some discussion!

And thanks for the excellent css-tricks link. It touches on various topics I think are under-explored.

I'd be happy to see this issue closed and migrate our attentions to #1240

I was aware about CSS 2.1 Aural -> CSS 3 speech. Although there is very little information about what is currently going on with CSS 3 speech implementations. Caniuse is the first place I look for such data, so the vacuum is striking. The impression given is that the whole effort is stagnating or even deprecated, although this must certainly be incorrect.

Primarily there should be coverage in caniuse of CSS 3 speech, with CSS 2.1 Aural mentioned in a stub that points to the CSS 3 speech resources.

As I see it, there are two 'real-world' usage concerns here:

  1. Browser support for css 3 speech
  2. Screenreader support for css3 speech

It's all very well if a browser doesn't complain about css3 speech properties, or even does something useful with them, when using the speech synth features, but until screenreaders are standard features of ordinary browsers (go Opera!), what (I believe) we most sorely need is data about how screenreaders handle those properties.

Perhaps bolt-on screenreaders fall out of the scope of caniuse. But what to make of browser vendors that have delegated screenreading to the OS they themselves control. (viz. Apple's Safari with VoiceOver and Microsoft's Edge/IE with Narrator)? It's reasonable to expect that these vendors have allocated some 'design thinking' resources to how the browser and the system-level screen reader interact, and web content professionals will need to know how well they are doing.

Screenreader support for css3 speech is something that needs tracking somewhere, now that WCAG is being mandated across North America, in the EU and in various other regions. If not in caniuse, then where?

It's time to get the ball moving again.

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techieshark May 16, 2018

+1 for this from @brennanyoung:

Primarily there should be coverage in caniuse of CSS 3 speech, with CSS 2.1 Aural mentioned in a stub that points to the CSS 3 speech resources.

Let's keep this issue open until "CSS 2.1 Aural mentioned in a stub" is implemented, and meanwhile focus discussion specific to CSS 3 Speech Module to #1240.

+1 for this from @brennanyoung:

Primarily there should be coverage in caniuse of CSS 3 speech, with CSS 2.1 Aural mentioned in a stub that points to the CSS 3 speech resources.

Let's keep this issue open until "CSS 2.1 Aural mentioned in a stub" is implemented, and meanwhile focus discussion specific to CSS 3 Speech Module to #1240.

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brennanyoung May 17, 2018

OK I just committed a stub for CSS 2.1 Aural. I left all the default versions in, but changed the support flag to "n". AFAICT this is correct, although we perhaps don't need ALL those browser versions listed. (Is there a preferred way to trim those to the minimum "not gonna happen" setting?

brennanyoung commented May 17, 2018

OK I just committed a stub for CSS 2.1 Aural. I left all the default versions in, but changed the support flag to "n". AFAICT this is correct, although we perhaps don't need ALL those browser versions listed. (Is there a preferred way to trim those to the minimum "not gonna happen" setting?

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frob May 22, 2018

@brennanyoung Is there a PR that needs checking? I don't see anything linking any commit and this issue.

frob commented May 22, 2018

@brennanyoung Is there a PR that needs checking? I don't see anything linking any commit and this issue.

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brennanyoung May 23, 2018

@frob
as per #4263 (comment)

So, now the 'stub' appears as a search result, rather than a full entry.

This is quite suitable. When we get the CSS 3 Speech data in there, the stub should also point to that.

@frob
as per #4263 (comment)

So, now the 'stub' appears as a search result, rather than a full entry.

This is quite suitable. When we get the CSS 3 Speech data in there, the stub should also point to that.

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frob May 23, 2018

Should this issue be closed now or do you want to leave it as a reminder to add the speech notes once that entry is added?

frob commented May 23, 2018

Should this issue be closed now or do you want to leave it as a reminder to add the speech notes once that entry is added?

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