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Logistics Pipes #3237

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Magentanide opened this issue Jul 2, 2018 · 84 comments
Closed

Logistics Pipes #3237

Magentanide opened this issue Jul 2, 2018 · 84 comments
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Status: RFC (request for comment) Type: Mod Addition New Mod Wanted... Type: Suggestion

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@Magentanide
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... are better than Project Red: Transportation pipes, and should be added as an alternative if Minetweaker scripts comply.
@alphaNOVAircraft
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Is a pretty big mod, Project red is already in the pack, because the rest of the mod is useful (all the redstone stuff), but adding a whole new mod would make the pack bigger with just a improvement of a existing system. As far as i remember that mod was discussed often, but it never seemed that they will add it

@Dream-Master
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it was never added because minetweaker script not worked. But this was versions ago. Since much bc pipes are allready added I see nothing against it. Sure I will run a test first. But as always I need to hear more voices here.

@boubou19
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boubou19 commented Jul 2, 2018

I've heard Logistics Pipes introduce a lot of lags, but it was long time ago so dunno if it's still true.

@alphaNOVAircraft
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Not sure if we need it, imo i do not see a reason for adding a mod that does nearly the same like project red but makes the pack even larger. I personally dont need it, but would use it if it would be in the game and aviable as early as the redpower ones are right now.

@Wolozo7
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Wolozo7 commented Jul 2, 2018

I'd like to see it. The mod is certainly not essential due to Project Red, but after building a PR storage setup, it seems like a much more archaic version of LP.

@Dream-Master
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so far I rember we add project red because of the minetweaker isdue. LP was the first and PR the second choice.

@noobyaran9
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Lets add it and see how people think about it. Preferably add some conversion recipe between project red. If it really got accepted by majority, maybe we can consider removing project red: transportation.

@bartimaeusnek
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i dont think we need another pipe mod, since logistic pipes is 100% ripoff of project red. Im against it due to its laggyness and aswell bc of its dumb usage of reflexion codewise.

@Wolozo7
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Wolozo7 commented Jul 2, 2018

What lag?

@boubou19
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boubou19 commented Jul 2, 2018

Mostly because of the high amount going through the pipes, and having a lot of pipes.

@Ugachaga
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Ugachaga commented Jul 2, 2018

I've heard that LP is pretty powerful pipes. Can someone who understands the differences with Project Red pipes tell about them?

@alphaNOVAircraft
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@Ugachaga id does not actullay behaves so different, you just have some better ways especially in automatisation compared to project red. If you set it up right it can even be better then AE2, but due to the fact that it is actually transporting all the items in the pipes, and not just "generating" them where they need to go like ae2 does, it is way more laggy if build up for the same automations

@damug
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damug commented Jul 2, 2018

I am very fond of logistics bpipes and would much prefer to use it over project red. If I recall there are some uses of it that make it compelling to use in certain situations over ae2 as well, such as small stocking autocrafting setups for your main storage system. Basically it is amazing, and I think it is totally minetweakable these days.

@bengenie
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bengenie commented Jul 2, 2018

I do remeder playing on ftb infinity so it should work but i prefrode ae2 over logistics pipe and ender oi logistics system

@Scottishprog
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Main issue with project red is the fact that a drawer system will show no more than a stack to a retriever. So you don't actually know how much you have in storage, which greatly reduces the utility.

@Magentanide
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@Scottishprog
That's just one problem. Project Red has fewer capabilities, yet is somehow more complicated to understand than LP - not to mention poorly documented.

@Hakameda
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Hakameda commented Jul 4, 2018

+1 Logistics pipes best mod.

@Hakameda
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Hakameda commented Jul 5, 2018

It would also balance itself pretty well, Remove the gear recipes for pipes. Chipsets are MV gated. The most OP thing is the pipe that runs into an enderchest to req items anywhere but gated behind IV. You could drop it in and it would be fairly balanced with no gears

@Bryfer
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Bryfer commented Jul 6, 2018

Iirc there is issues with these pipes and chunk borders?
Items get voided if the next chunk is not loaded, since the pipes gets full

I haven't used these pipes in a very long time tho so maybe it's fixed?

@Hakameda
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Hakameda commented Jul 6, 2018 via email

@HugoBelotDeloro
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I'd be for adding LP as well, but moving PR pipes to LV and making LP a late MV/ early HV thing so they don't overlap, since IIRC PR pipes are already MV and then we get AE late HV.

@Hakameda
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Hakameda commented Jul 7, 2018 via email

@Hakameda
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Hakameda commented Jul 7, 2018 via email

@Dream-Master
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Yea i want to tier them like Project Red pipes but before Ae

@Scottishprog
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I think this would help overall... right now the PR pipes are too expensive for what they provide imho. Hopefully the LP will be priced so they actually get used before AE.

@Dream-Master
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If pr pipes to expensive why i not see a issue here? @Scottishprog

@Hakameda
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Hakameda commented Jul 7, 2018 via email

@noobyaran9
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noobyaran9 commented Jul 9, 2018 •
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copying the same mods on the functional, simplifying the game freeloaders and lazy people

Comment like this are the reason why discussion turns toxic.

copying the same mods on the functional

"Copying". LP may be similar to PR on the functionality, they're basically two different mod. And not to mention LP is far superior than what PR can do in term of functionality and enable the ability to use barrels and storage drawer within the LP system.

Also LP offers integration with AE/ME system which provides a transition to people from LP into AE/ME system instead of ripping everything down and replacing it with AE/ME system.

simplifying the game freeloaders and lazy people

We're not going to let LP in without any changes or sufficient nerfing. How is this even simplifying the game freeloaders and lazy people? You will still need to construct the whole LP system.

@Vernam
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Vernam commented Jul 9, 2018

There are still no valid arguments where it would be clear that a mod is needed as air. at least. so far I see excuses. when I see the meaning in the mod - another matter. so far, someone is too lazy to look for alternatives and get to the applaid system, although this is not so difficult. LP works almost for nothing, which is already a wild simplification.

@Vernam
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Vernam commented Jul 9, 2018

give at least 3 arguments, that LP is necessary for the assembly. Is it difficult? except as a simplification of the game at the mv stage, this is not an argument. until there are at least three arguments - I see a suggestion how to make of gtnh - project ozone 2.

@boubou19
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boubou19 commented Jul 9, 2018

then let lazy people play with AE you can't force them to play like you but keep in mind that there are also hardworkers in the GT:NH community and those ones will be happy to make contraptions with LP

@mitchej123
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mitchej123 commented Jul 9, 2018 •
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License: LP's is more friendly for 1.7.10 packs given almost everyone has moved on from supporting 1.7.10 mods, as it'll let us (without additional permissions) modify, update, distribute and provide support for the mod.

Project Red: https://github.com/MrTJP/ProjectRed/blob/master/LICENSE.md

By default this Mod may only be distributed on its own by the Developers

Logistics Pipes: https://github.com/RS485/LogisticsPipes/blob/dev/LICENSE.md

The user is allowed to redistribute this mod partially, in totality, or included in a distribution.

When distributing binary files, the user must provide means to obtain its entire set of sources or modified sources at no costs.

All distributions of this mod must remain licensed under the MMPL.

All dependencies that this mod have on other mods or classes must be licensed under conditions comparable to this version of MMPL, with the exception of the Minecraft code and the mod loading framework (e.g. ModLoader, ModLoaderMP or Bukkit).

Modified version of binaries and sources, as well as files containing sections copied from this mod, should be distributed under the terms of the present license.

@mitchej123
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mitchej123 commented Jul 9, 2018 •
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except as a simplification of the game at the mv stage

Simplification? You mean automation? Automation is great! More options for automation instead of pigeon holing everyone into the exact same setup is even better!

@boubou19
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boubou19 commented Jul 9, 2018

IIRC logistics pipes need power to function, but PR don't so you need to tinker a way to power it right (last time i played with LP was before AE1 being released)

@Vernam
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Vernam commented Jul 9, 2018

all that is written about the pros - I think you can implement without the LP. just imagination. For the time being, I just saw a banal laziness in the basics. please, 3 worthy arguments for extreme necessity in mod. necessity, importance. because before this mod all played quietly, all suited. Played for a long time without LP, so it is not so necessary

@mitchej123
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So basically you're dismissing everything we say; You aren't the arbiter of whether an argument is worthy.

How about you provide 3 worthy arguments of why we shouldn't include it, and "we haven't had it forever and we played fine without it" is not a valid reason.

@boubou19
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boubou19 commented Jul 9, 2018

everything doesn't have an extrem necessity, so stop rejecting every argument because you don't like LP. I'm entering UHV tier and always using AE as automation is borring and i already used PR a lot in HV so i would like to see diversity in this pack is it a bad thing?

@Vernam
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Vernam commented Jul 9, 2018

instead of a decent answer, do you only transfer the arrows to me? interestingly you are trying to argue the presence of mod. arguments before that were not enough, because they sounded like "I'm too lazy to automate everything, give me a toy easier". Yes, I'm not a judge, it's not up to me to decide whether the arguments are good. I'm just trying to get it read by the DreamMaster and saw in general the situation and the need. and is it worth it to add a mod. so I just put myself in his place and try to pull out from you extremely weighty arguments.

@boubou19
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boubou19 commented Jul 9, 2018

The fact that there are no valid arguments according to you doesn't mean that the arguments aren't valid for others. If LP is added then just remove it on your side and that's it! Why are you concerned in "lazy" people pack's experience? Everyone plays like he wants.

@Vernam
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Vernam commented Jul 9, 2018

Here are my arguments against - LP lagging mod. He simplifies the game too much, which is not the idea of ​​modpack. new not needed mods only make modpack even harder, which reduces the number of people who can play it. too selfish. so it's more important how you prove that mod is extremely necessary than my arguments against. if everyone plays as they want - you can put the mod yourself, without requiring installation from everyone. it's selfish.

@boubou19
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boubou19 commented Jul 9, 2018

Adding a mod isn't selfish because you can always avoid using it or even remove yourself but don't add a mod because only a few people disagree about it is selfish because not everyone knows adding a mod in a custom technic launcher or whatever launcher you use

@Ethryan
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Ethryan commented Jul 9, 2018

Can we please stay on topic now?,

This is a thread for suggesting a new mod, and getting a response from others in the community.
Please take this discussion to discord if you want to continue it.

@boubou19
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boubou19 commented Jul 9, 2018

lags issues are purely because too much items goes through pipes if you limit them it's fine

@Hakameda
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Hakameda commented Jul 9, 2018 via email

@Vernam
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Vernam commented Jul 9, 2018

you do not even think about others and about the assembly. I'm sorry, but it's true. everything I thought about this mod - I wrote. Do not try to convince me, it's stupid. my opinion is my opinion. I wish the modpack to rise to a new level, rather than fall lower. I suggest closing the meaningless chatter, let's see what the Dream says

@boubou19
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boubou19 commented Jul 9, 2018

my last words about this topic is that adding variety always add complexity because you have more materials to play with. But only making the pack harder for the only purpose of making it harder is pointless because i think the essence of the pack is that you have a constant progression of the difficulty so the more you progress, more the setups are interesting to make, and more easier the crafting tasks are. You can only use LP if it's you wish. It concerns only you.

@Hakameda
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Hakameda commented Jul 9, 2018 via email

@CalterOK
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CalterOK commented Jul 9, 2018

You often mention the extension of automation options to AE, and the fact that PR pipes are expensive, but for some reason no one remembered that automation as well as a quite convenient storage can be done with the help of auto and golems. You are obsessed with only the pipes and other options at the moment do not go see yourself.
I also did not like the PR pipes in view of their high prices and I found myself an alternative in magic. The repository used later went perfectly into the AE system without any problems. Therefore, I do not need any PR or LP pipes.

@Bryfer
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Bryfer commented Jul 9, 2018 •
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Enough discussion about nothing now please.
We are not here to whine, we are here to discuss.

IF LP is added? What tier do you suggest?

Everyone seems to want to use it for auto crafting.
Auto crafting in PR is disabled because it's available in low tiers, and would break balance since it does not cost energy
( PR Crafting pipe has no recipe for example)

How is LP different here?

There is currently Many different ways of moving items around between machines in many different tiers.
Most of these has whitelist/blacklist options.

There is also storage available in MV/HV and EV+ tiers
(PR, EnderIO, AE)

What would adding LP give to the modpack that it's currently missing?

Here is a quick list of current methods that exists right now

Item movers
Currently there is hoppers from iron (steam tier)
GT pipes (all tiers) + filter+ type filter(MV+)
Alot of small stuff in ( LV ) (can't remember all names sry)
Translocator (LV)
PR (LV-MV)
EnderIO (HV)
AE EV+
SFM (tier?)

Automatic Storage
Jabba/drawers* (*requires PR or similar)
PR MV (this might be moved to LV see separate git issue)
EnderIO HV
AE EV+

Liquids moving
Buckets (Steam) (with gt pipes and hoppers)
Tinker's (Steam
GT pipes (all tiers) + filters at MV(?)
EnderIO (HV+)
AE (EV+)
SFM (tier?)

Crafters
PR (disabled partly)
EnderIO (HV)
AE (EV+)

IF I missed something in this list send me a PM on discord and I'll add it.

Please keep the discussions at a friendly level, and avoid personal discussions here.
You can always discuss more over private messages on discord if you are having a discussion with each other
And then simply write down here what you come up with instead

@Vernam
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Vernam commented Jul 9, 2018

We have translocators and JABBA. With JABBA we can transfer items, yes :) we have ST to. So much we have - so less we use..

@Usernm0
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Usernm0 commented Jul 9, 2018

Please don't add logistic pipes. It add nothing but lags in our case. All features it have can be done with applied energistics + extra cells.

I play a lot with logistic pipes on infinity evolved and when my lp system grow to about 1k pipes and something about 150 autocraft recipes I start catch lag spikes every 20-40 seconds because lp recalculate path. You really want this on server?

@mitchej123
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I play a lot with logistic pipes on infinity evolved and when my lp system grow to about 1k pipes and something about 150 autocraft recipes I start catch lag spikes every 20-40 seconds because lp recalculate path.

TPS or FPS lag?

@Hakameda
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Hakameda commented Jul 9, 2018 via email

@Cinobi
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Cinobi commented Jul 9, 2018

Don't listen to them, add this mod please! 10 tps with 10 players is too much, need to make it lower! =)

Last time i tryed this mod it was laggy and baggy as hell, not sure somthing changed.

@Bryfer
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Bryfer commented Jul 9, 2018

If you wish to share your opinion about Logistics Pipes with us, please do it here:
The last git issue got really messy. Keep it clean and read the first message before posting.
#3286

@Prometheus0000 Prometheus0000 mentioned this issue Nov 27, 2020
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