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terrain and forrest bug report pass along #914

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Azaezel opened this Issue Nov 7, 2014 · 13 comments

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Azaezel commented Nov 7, 2014

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crabmusket Nov 7, 2014

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Pretty sure BeamNG has seen this and worked out a solution. @tdev?

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crabmusket commented Nov 7, 2014

Pretty sure BeamNG has seen this and worked out a solution. @tdev?

@crabmusket crabmusket added the Bug label Nov 7, 2014

@crabmusket crabmusket added this to the 3.7 milestone Nov 7, 2014

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game3d Nov 7, 2014

attmept to reproduce. need more data.

  • make a large terrain 2048
  • use size 4 (quarry size)

place some trees, better place some models and you can see that issue. At small terrains you dont see it really, but it happens also there!

game3d commented Nov 7, 2014

attmept to reproduce. need more data.

  • make a large terrain 2048
  • use size 4 (quarry size)

place some trees, better place some models and you can see that issue. At small terrains you dont see it really, but it happens also there!

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crabmusket Nov 9, 2014

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Reduce draw distance?

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crabmusket commented Nov 9, 2014

Reduce draw distance?

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game3d Nov 9, 2014

Just a question. Why other engines like cryengine and so, don't have such problems?
May that is also one of the reason, why T3D not is a AAA engine. I'm only a artist, and i can't help to solve this problem, except i can show you such issues. I need to have a view distance of about 3000 metre. When i go less, the next issue is visible. Then you see the cutted border of the terrain, also when i use a lot of fog to hide this cutted edges a bit.
To use a smaller terrain is not a solution for our game!

game3d commented Nov 9, 2014

Just a question. Why other engines like cryengine and so, don't have such problems?
May that is also one of the reason, why T3D not is a AAA engine. I'm only a artist, and i can't help to solve this problem, except i can show you such issues. I need to have a view distance of about 3000 metre. When i go less, the next issue is visible. Then you see the cutted border of the terrain, also when i use a lot of fog to hide this cutted edges a bit.
To use a smaller terrain is not a solution for our game!

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Azaezel Nov 9, 2014

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You absolutely can help to solve the problem in your own way. To paraphrase a recent redit post, our stupid programmer brains require as many little pieces of data as possible to turn facts into information. The vid as presented showed what appeared to be someone:
A) Close to the tree + terrain + a hole cut in it with a model over it. (was this incorrect?)
B) A slope at a sharp angle with either the tree in the terrain, or in the model which was set to visibly mesh with it. (hence the attempt to reproduce that end)

It didn't show the terrain size setup, so that would be one thing to look into. Are there any other non-default settings being used for that scene that may bear looking into?

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Azaezel commented Nov 9, 2014

You absolutely can help to solve the problem in your own way. To paraphrase a recent redit post, our stupid programmer brains require as many little pieces of data as possible to turn facts into information. The vid as presented showed what appeared to be someone:
A) Close to the tree + terrain + a hole cut in it with a model over it. (was this incorrect?)
B) A slope at a sharp angle with either the tree in the terrain, or in the model which was set to visibly mesh with it. (hence the attempt to reproduce that end)

It didn't show the terrain size setup, so that would be one thing to look into. Are there any other non-default settings being used for that scene that may bear looking into?

Azaezel added a commit to Azaezel/Torque3D that referenced this issue Nov 9, 2014

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Ok, uploaded a bare-bones attempt at https://github.com/Azaezel/Torque3D/tree/mangle_attempt (you can see the list of altered files Azaezel@69c6caa)

Tried:
2048 terrain with a cutout using size 4.
Material with and without side-projection (makes the texture use the side of the terrain rather than the top for those playing the home game)
Forrest.
Tree Model.
10x10x10 scaled tree model.
Still not seeing it with that. Can you grab the files and alter it to produce a similar result your end without adding a model, or would that be something I'd need to try and reproduce as well?

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Azaezel commented Nov 9, 2014

Ok, uploaded a bare-bones attempt at https://github.com/Azaezel/Torque3D/tree/mangle_attempt (you can see the list of altered files Azaezel@69c6caa)

Tried:
2048 terrain with a cutout using size 4.
Material with and without side-projection (makes the texture use the side of the terrain rather than the top for those playing the home game)
Forrest.
Tree Model.
10x10x10 scaled tree model.
Still not seeing it with that. Can you grab the files and alter it to produce a similar result your end without adding a model, or would that be something I'd need to try and reproduce as well?

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game3d Nov 9, 2014

First, sorry for my smal English.. ofc, i never was thinking programmers have a stupid brain :)
I find out a bit more about that issue. It also needs to have a lot objects in the level, to see the issue.
What i can tell are some more metrics data i have in our mission. FPS is: about 50 and draw calls are about 2k. polycount is average 3 000 000.
The issue happens at all models all around. I just showed that place with the hole in terrain, about there you can see the issue as much as possible. When the sloop to the terrain and model is 90 degrees, the issue happens also, but is much less vissible.
I really want help to solve that, as much i can do. I like T3D and i do think to solve that issue, would improve T3D a lot, and allow also a nice looking large terrain If you need more movies, showing the issue, i can make some. Just tell me what you need more, so i can help.

game3d commented Nov 9, 2014

First, sorry for my smal English.. ofc, i never was thinking programmers have a stupid brain :)
I find out a bit more about that issue. It also needs to have a lot objects in the level, to see the issue.
What i can tell are some more metrics data i have in our mission. FPS is: about 50 and draw calls are about 2k. polycount is average 3 000 000.
The issue happens at all models all around. I just showed that place with the hole in terrain, about there you can see the issue as much as possible. When the sloop to the terrain and model is 90 degrees, the issue happens also, but is much less vissible.
I really want help to solve that, as much i can do. I like T3D and i do think to solve that issue, would improve T3D a lot, and allow also a nice looking large terrain If you need more movies, showing the issue, i can make some. Just tell me what you need more, so i can help.

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game3d Nov 9, 2014

made one more movie, to show it at models. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=puB9Z9BoxJs&feature=youtu.be)

game3d commented Nov 9, 2014

made one more movie, to show it at models. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=puB9Z9BoxJs&feature=youtu.be)

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Azaezel Nov 9, 2014

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Best reproduction I've managed so far seems to point to an absolute-position error.

Strongly suspect given the lack of relative position differences in the testbed noted earlier that it'll be tied into

void RenderPassManager::sort()
and it's related hooks.

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Azaezel commented Nov 9, 2014

Best reproduction I've managed so far seems to point to an absolute-position error.

Strongly suspect given the lack of relative position differences in the testbed noted earlier that it'll be tied into

void RenderPassManager::sort()
and it's related hooks.

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As in floating point error?

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crabmusket commented Nov 10, 2014

As in floating point error?

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Azaezel Nov 10, 2014

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yep

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Azaezel commented Nov 10, 2014

yep

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tdev Nov 10, 2014

uh, disregard my previous comment please, it was a wrong assumption

tdev commented Nov 10, 2014

uh, disregard my previous comment please, it was a wrong assumption

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chieling Dec 25, 2014

Did a bit of research work on this today.
We have fog on, NearClip set at 0.2 and visible distance set at 1600 and that seems to work.

if u adjust the NearClip, we either start getting the jitter between the terrain and the model and/or the FOG in the distance starts getting effected.

Now, to see fog issues, u may need to look up, but at some number youll start seeing the "end" of the fog and itll be an obvious line if the scattersky fog and the level info fog are 2 different colors.

to see the jitter issues, put a static partially inside a 45 angle terrain and start slowly moving the camera. youll see the terrain start jumping around a bit.

chieling commented Dec 25, 2014

Did a bit of research work on this today.
We have fog on, NearClip set at 0.2 and visible distance set at 1600 and that seems to work.

if u adjust the NearClip, we either start getting the jitter between the terrain and the model and/or the FOG in the distance starts getting effected.

Now, to see fog issues, u may need to look up, but at some number youll start seeing the "end" of the fog and itll be an obvious line if the scattersky fog and the level info fog are 2 different colors.

to see the jitter issues, put a static partially inside a 45 angle terrain and start slowly moving the camera. youll see the terrain start jumping around a bit.

@crabmusket crabmusket modified the milestones: 3.7, 3.8 Jan 28, 2015

@Areloch Areloch modified the milestones: 3.9, 3.8 Oct 5, 2015

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