ALSA shouldn't be default in LMMS

When using LMMS on Linux using the default settings one large problem is apparent. At any moment the sound can become very very distorted. Sometimes restarting pulseaudio will fix it. Other times you will have to restart the computer. However, switching to SDL will ALWAYS solve this problem. SDL does take up a bit more resources, but it is manageable. I ran LMMS on SDL on a RPI without overclocking while running Chromium, Scratch, and a terminal window without a hitch.

#1600 whoot whoot!

[diizy]

On 01/11/2015 10:52 PM, Gabe Bauer wrote:

When using LMMS on Linux using the default settings one large problem
is apparent. At any moment the sound can become very very distorted.
Sometimes restarting pulseaudio will fix it.

Don't use PulseAudio.

By default LMMS uses ALSA. Which is the cause of this problem. However, this problem is not apparent when using SDL. But, SDL is not the default.

[diizy]

On 01/12/2015 12:01 AM, Gabe Bauer wrote:

By default LMMS uses ALSA. Which is the cause of this problem.
However, this problem is not apparent when using SDL. But, SDL is not
the default.

ALSA works just fine. PulseAudio is the problem. Setup your ALSA backend
to use ALSA directly, instead of letting PulseAudio intercept the output.

[tresf]

IIRC it already is default on Windows, for similar reasons (the direct sound drivers had bugs that made the startup experience bad for the majority of users)

I see no problem with changing this if it is the general consensus. I'd like to hear from more people that compose on Linux @Umcaruje @unfa @mikobuntu and see if this would appease the masses.

The solution "don't use PulseAudio" is like telling Windows users not to use DirectSound, or telling Apple users not to use CoreAudio. Sometimes we have to ship with sane defaults, and we changed it on one platform for this exact reason. Reasons against it should offer some good supporting arguments. I've been using Linux for too long to still see "Don't use pulse audio" still as solutions to these things.

[diizy]

On 01/12/2015 12:55 AM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:

IIRC it already is default on Windows, for similar reasons (the direct
sound drivers had bugs that made the startup experience bad for the
majority of users)

I see no problem with changing this if it is the general consensus.
I'd like to hear from more people that compose on Linux and see if
this would appease the masses.

The solution "don't use PulseAudio" is like telling Windows users not
to use direct sound, or telling Apple users not to use CoreAudio.
Sometimes we have to ship with sane defaults, and we changed it on one
platform for this exact reason. Reasons against it should offer some
good reasoning. I've been using Linux for too long to still see "Done
use pulse audio" still as solutions to these things.

We can expect a bit more from Linux users than we can from Windows
users. Linux users are generally more tech-savvy and know how to setup
their computers, it's a much more DIY environment.

ALSA works just fine for most people. SDL causes more overhead and is an
additional dependency which not everyone may want to install. Everyone
has ALSA installed, which makes it a safe default.

It's simply a fact that if you want to do audio work, PulseAudio is a
piece of crap. You don't need to get rid of it, just configure your
backend to use ALSA directly so that PA can't intercept it. Our user
wiki has step-by-step instructions for doing this.

[tresf]

So the argument is a dependency and performance argument?

The performance problems exist identically on all platforms, but in Windows Port Audio just doesn't work 90% of the time. Fortunately for the proprietary OSs, these SDL libraries are bundled, so the dependency argument is out the window for those platforms.

It is unfortunate that the very platform our software is built on can't use it OOTB. 😢

-Tres

[tresf]

... and from a performance perspective, from what I observe, SDL uses a lot of resources at idle, but performs quite well otherwise. This seems to be consensus on SDL in general due to the way its engine is written.

I completely agree. It preformed well on a Raspberry Pi using SDL. So, we know it doesn't take up THAT many resources.

[Sti2nd]

diizy is right in that because PortAudio is default on Ubuntu (right?) it interferes with Alsa which is default for LMMS. At least that sounds familiar, look at the last Q/A https://lmms.io/documentation/User_FAQ

We can expect a bit more from Linux users than we can from Windows
users.

It is evening out though, linux is starting to become so simple, what a shame...

Not every linux user is advanced. If you are new and just want to install LMMS and have it work out of the box than it would make sense to have SDL by default. You want this project to get better right? If your answer was yes than you should do everything in your power to do so. Which, would include making the audio work universally out of the box. If your answer was no than you should have nothing to do with the project.

[tresf]

diizy is right in that because PortAudio is default on Ubuntu (right?) it interferes with Alsa which is default for LMMS.

Is this a statement or a question? Have you ever composed on Linux? If you're saying he's right about the wiki, we can deduct that ourselves, thank you. Peanut gallery is over to the right.

It is evening out though, linux is starting to become so simple, what a shame...

Is has been this way for years and years. So has PulseAudio. PulseAudio pisses off many Linux users, however with its anger it has brought some of the most basic multi-tasking capabilities out of cheap sound cards that seemed to have previously fought over sound devices (and one of them would lose, making life even sadder for most end-users).

If we want to fight a battle against PulseAudio, this is the wrong place to do it. If SDL fixes this, we can always offer lmms-nosdl to the purists while giving sane defaults to the masses. I personal prefer stuff that works out of the box. When I install a DAW often I don't even know if I'm going to use it for more than a day. If the audio doesn't work OOTB, it does more to damage that software than it does PulseAudio.

And, switching to SDL doesn't mean you can't switch back. There is a reason for the settings. That being said, I do like the idea of the simple lmms-nosdl.

[tresf]

... but that said, I do agree with Vesa that the average Linux user is used to this sort of crap. That's why I'd like to sample the Linux users a bit. I'd like to know how the community usually configures their system and if the majority of them are already doing this, or if they are utilizing our workarounds in our wiki.

[Sti2nd]

Is this a statement or a question? Have you ever composed on Linux?

Statement, but it is a long time ago since I used Ubuntu now, and if I recall correctly they changed sound driver sometime the last five years? That is why I were unsure what sound driver they use now. Talking about Ubuntu.

PulseAudio pisses off many Linux users,

Oh, so it isn't just a LMMS problem? I agree on that out of the box is the best, so yes, if SDL works on more distros/computers it should be default on linux too