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No more free work from Marak - Pay Me or Fork This #1046

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Marak opened this issue Nov 8, 2020 · 94 comments
Open

No more free work from Marak - Pay Me or Fork This #1046

Marak opened this issue Nov 8, 2020 · 94 comments

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@Marak
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@Marak Marak commented Nov 8, 2020

Respectfully, I am no longer going to support Fortune 500s ( and other smaller sized companies ) with my free work.

There isn't much else to say.

Take this as an opportunity to send me a six figure yearly contract or fork the project and have someone else work on it.

bender-strike

@asim
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@asim asim commented Nov 9, 2020

Kudos to you sir.

@p410n3
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@p410n3 p410n3 commented Nov 9, 2020

Power to you!

@darthbob88
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@darthbob88 darthbob88 commented Nov 9, 2020

SOLIDARITY FOREVER.

@chovy
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@chovy chovy commented Nov 9, 2020

bad ass.

@marsop
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@marsop marsop commented Nov 9, 2020

Completely understandable..

@fabianhjr
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@fabianhjr fabianhjr commented Nov 9, 2020

P2P Foundation has been writing about this and might be of interest to you; in particular as copyfair and copyfarleft.

@jccgsk
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@jccgsk jccgsk commented Nov 9, 2020

Would Open Collective be an alternative for you?

@trevyn
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@trevyn trevyn commented Nov 9, 2020

For those of us who have not been following, what specifically prompted this? Have Fortune 500s been asking for certain features/support and not been willing to pay?

@dodyg
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@dodyg dodyg commented Nov 9, 2020

Probably this? https://twitter.com/marak/status/1320465599319990272

@deanputney
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@deanputney deanputney commented Nov 9, 2020

Seems like Github ought to have some goals on that sponsor tool. Monthly, per commit, per release, total, something! Crowdfunding has real proven mechanisms. People want to make it happen. Good for you for pushing on this, the financial tooling is long overdue.

@arunkp
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@arunkp arunkp commented Nov 9, 2020

God bless you mate! A Patreon page would really help.

@idcmsbeta
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@idcmsbeta idcmsbeta commented Nov 9, 2020

second, open source doesnt mean free. Support still need to paid.
** i up the robot picture in my fb.

@teito-dev
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@teito-dev teito-dev commented Nov 9, 2020

Good luck marak.

Thnx for all the work you’ve done till now.
May open source win

@kuesji
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@kuesji kuesji commented Nov 9, 2020

maybe you should put this to head of readme.md too.

@Ujang360
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@Ujang360 Ujang360 commented Nov 9, 2020

Pin the issue please 😁

@faissaloo
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@faissaloo faissaloo commented Nov 9, 2020

thinkpad

@kLabz
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@kLabz kLabz commented Nov 9, 2020

Probably this? https://twitter.com/marak/status/1320465599319990272

Seems more likely to be linked to this one https://twitter.com/marak/status/1325612104808886274

@shirshak55
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@shirshak55 shirshak55 commented Nov 9, 2020

Hello, Why would Fortune 500 pay you when they are themselves asking for donations.

See Jest: https://github.com/facebook/jest Its under the umbrella of facebook but collecting thousands of dollars from other people? I am not saying collecting donation is bad but collecting donation under the facebook is definitely bad.

Thanks for all the work Marak

@chovy
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@chovy chovy commented Nov 9, 2020

@maciejjankowski
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@maciejjankowski maciejjankowski commented Nov 9, 2020

I understand your frustration, but why not pick a license which better supports your needs?

@idcmsbeta
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@idcmsbeta idcmsbeta commented Nov 9, 2020

We need some sort of open source software developer's union

let said people dont understand including gov. E.g mysql , most of them thinking no need to paid license fee support like oracle. If development stall lack of money it will be fall back to the paid database. Hackathon also the worst enemy of developer. For fun and job are totally diff.

@nmohoni
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@nmohoni nmohoni commented Nov 9, 2020

Join us 💪
xs:code (https://xscode.com)

@jpic
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@jpic jpic commented Nov 9, 2020

maintainer.io tidelift.com

@tormeh
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@tormeh tormeh commented Nov 9, 2020

You could charge for handling issues. The industry term for this is "Change Request". It essentially makes you into a consultant, although you can of course reject CRs you don't like

@dmihal
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@dmihal dmihal commented Nov 9, 2020

You should create a grant on http://gitcoin.co/grants and see if you can get some community funding

@nmohoni
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@nmohoni nmohoni commented Nov 9, 2020

Respectfully, I am no longer going to support Fortune 500s ( and other smaller sized companies ) with my free work.

There isn't much else to say.

Take this as an opportunity to send me a six figure yearly contract or fork the project and have someone else work on it.

bender-strike

We need some sort of open source software developer's union

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:40 AM Shirshak @.***> wrote: Hello, Why would Fortune 500 pay you when they are themselves asking for donations. See Jest: https://github.com/facebook/jest Thanks for all the work Marak — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#1046 (comment)>, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAAGV5LFXANA3FQPWRPK2RTSO7BK3ANCNFSM4TONL4UA .
-- Anthony

I don't think that a union is a solution. I think that OSS developers should decide if they want to support their users, how, and start to treat them as users/paying customers.
https://blog.xscode.com/736/the-right-sponsor-for-your-open-source-project/

@giannitedesco
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@giannitedesco giannitedesco commented Nov 9, 2020

Good luck, brother. You should not have to struggle to be paid for what is, very obviously, worthwhile work!

@groundhogs
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@groundhogs groundhogs commented Nov 9, 2020

Sure! How do you plan on enforcing this though?

@apisandipas
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@apisandipas apisandipas commented Nov 9, 2020

Faker is love. Faker is life. I applaud this move. Someone sponsor this man!

@bhgames
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@bhgames bhgames commented Nov 11, 2020

Oh also, please confirm you got it, @Marak , want to make sure I didn’t hit wrong person!

@mokanfar
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@mokanfar mokanfar commented Nov 11, 2020

BronzeDefinitiveGroundhog-max-1mb
WHEN MARAK GENERATES MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR A FORTUNE 500 COMPANY FOR $0.

@keshlam
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@keshlam keshlam commented Nov 11, 2020

The principle behind freeware -- whether open source or not -- has always been "Software wants to be free -- but support should cost."

If you don't want it used commercially (or not without being paid, or simply don't want it being sold/republished/offered as a service), pick an appropriate license. Creative Commons has examples that handle most of the standard combinations, and most company lawyers are already familiar with those if you use them as is.

If you don't want to accept company requests for support -- don't. Or tell them they're welcome to hire you as a consultant to handle that issue. Or tell them to fix it themselves but please submit the fix back to the project so the rest of the community also benefits. Or tell them, as others said, to fork off and not come back, but that's hurting yourself more than them.

If you're just tired of working on the project at all -- well, as you said, folks will fork it if they think it's worth continued development. A better solution in that case would be to hand over the main project to a new leader, if one can be found... or to tell GitHub that it's now unowned and they should add it to their lists of projects looking for leaders.

@InnovativeCoder
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@InnovativeCoder InnovativeCoder commented Nov 12, 2020

Ain't Flossbank a good way to generate revenue? It shows advertisements on my terminal whenever I download any library and pay the advertisement amount to the creator. I think it could act like Youtube monetization.

@sontqq
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@sontqq sontqq commented Nov 12, 2020

Why did you publish it if you don't want people to use it?

@tobyhinloopen
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@tobyhinloopen tobyhinloopen commented Nov 12, 2020

Why did you publish it if you don't want people to use it?

I'm not marak, but I suspect you start out with sharing something you made for yourself. Suddenly others started using it and issues, notifications and bug reports started pouring in, including many people that "demanded" code reviews, support, bugfixes or something else.

I think he did want people to use it, but people using it is not the problem: people demanding support is usually the problem. Even worse, If a maintainer doesn't provide the proper support some people expect, people can become a real dick about it, like they somehow think they deserve (free, obviously) support, bugfixes or otherwise feedback on their bugreports, PRs or issues

Source: my experience in OS world, which might totally not align with Marak's view.

@sontqq
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@sontqq sontqq commented Nov 12, 2020

Why did you publish it if you don't want people to use it?

I'm not marak, but I suspect you start out with sharing something you made for yourself. Suddenly others started using it and issues, notifications and bug reports started pouring in, including many people that "demanded" code reviews, support, bugfixes or something else.

I think he did want people to use it, but people using it is not the problem: people demanding support is usually the problem. Even worse, If a maintainer doesn't provide the proper support some people expect, people can become a real dick about it, like they somehow think they deserve (free, obviously) support, bugfixes or otherwise feedback on their bugreports, PRs or issues

Source: my experience in OS world, which might totally not align with Marak's view.

Ok i got it but why doesnt he make a business on it then? Giving support for premium users etc.

@thedamian
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@thedamian thedamian commented Nov 13, 2020

pinging this so that this bubbles to the top as in the top there's some spam issues coming through.

@tobyhinloopen
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@tobyhinloopen tobyhinloopen commented Nov 13, 2020

pinging this so that this bubbles to the top as in the top there's some spam issues coming through.

It's pinned, right?

@MorrisMuuoMulitu
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@MorrisMuuoMulitu MorrisMuuoMulitu commented Nov 13, 2020

Damn right!

@chovy
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@chovy chovy commented Nov 13, 2020

@rmoskal
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@rmoskal rmoskal commented Nov 13, 2020

Bravo.

@imhazige
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@imhazige imhazige commented Nov 14, 2020

Yes!

@JoseJesusOchoaTorres
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@JoseJesusOchoaTorres JoseJesusOchoaTorres commented Nov 14, 2020

Hey maybe a good option could be Patreon; a lot of good Open source projects use it and works fine.

Thanks for your contributions.

@Marak
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@Marak Marak commented Nov 14, 2020

Hey maybe a good option could be Patreon; a lot of good Open source projects use it and works fine.

Thanks for your contributions.

no-patreon

@Marak
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@Marak Marak commented Nov 17, 2020

🧙‍♂️ @substack 🦾🤖🦾

@lukeocodes
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@lukeocodes lukeocodes commented Nov 17, 2020

@Marak good for you <3

@denis-domanskii
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@denis-domanskii denis-domanskii commented Nov 19, 2020

I think it's much more difficult to approve payments for SaaS or software in a huge companies - too much burecracy. That's why only startups support you - it's easy to get money when CEO sits near you.

I am respect you decision, but not sure that I totally agreed with your point of view. Why people create open source projects? For money? Definitely not. It can be for fun, and project dies when fun is ended. Or (it's my point) open source is created for karma. Every day we consume many things for free: Wikipedia, Stack overflow, Reddit memes and open source projects of course. Linux with whole it utils and software, docker, k8s, libre office, open source solutions for our work and pet projects. And every time when we use it - we taking a debt from an open source community. And we take more each day, each week and each year. But how to return it?

The only way to return this debt and make our world a little bit better - is a contributing to open source. By projects, by patches, by testing or sponsorship. Despite of problems, despite of FAANG and other billioner corporates - because it's not about them, it's about open source community, about ourselves.

You have done a great job, you have created an awesome product and you have paid your debt at all, IMHO. Thank you for all your income. I hope someday you will come back with more awesome projects, which will be created not for FAANG, but for thouthands of thouthands open source developers which working on their projects now. For fun and a better world hope.

@jondubois
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@jondubois jondubois commented Nov 19, 2020

@denis-domanskii The real reason why corporations don't pay open source authors/communities support contracts is because of cronyism - The problem with open source is that there is no way for corporate insiders to profit from it.

There is a lot of hidden corruption occurring inside corporations whereby certain insiders try to steer the corporation towards certain expensive SaaS solutions instead of towards free open source solutions. Then, if successful, the corporate insiders either get a cut from the SaaS provider (bribe) or they will be promised a cushy job at the SaaS startup at a later date for a ridiculously high salary (which is essentially a bribe which can be redeemed at a future date).

It's similar to what is happening inside politics when politicians help corporations achieve certain objectives in exchange for a nice cushy job at a think-tank after they finish their terms in political office.

This kind of subtle corruption has seeped into every level of most large organizations and it is hurting honest people and value producers.

Bureaucracy is merely a pretext which allows the corporation to justify paying 100x for outsourcing a service instead of bringing it in-house and sponsoring a few open source developers for peripheral support.

@jondubois
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@jondubois jondubois commented Nov 19, 2020

Why people create open source projects? For money? Definitely no.

It can be a mix of reasons and the motivations can change over time.

For most people, it starts out as a learning experience but it can also be a strategy to give a product a competitive chance to get attention. The tech industry is very competitive and sometimes the only way to get people to use a product is to offer it for free.

For those who aren't fortunate enough to have social connections with corporate insiders, sometimes the only way to get your foot in a door (any door at all) is to give away your work for free. It can be a business decision from start to finish. Nothing wrong with this either. It shows that you're willing to invest massive effort and expect minuscule margins in return...

The sad reality is that even that's not enough. Corporations seem to have gone out of their way to make open source a non-viable business model. Most of the financially successful (sustainable) open source projects are now decades old; the opportunity window has been closing.

@mgibson323
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@mgibson323 mgibson323 commented Nov 19, 2020

Hell yeah!

@Marak
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@Marak Marak commented Nov 20, 2020

I have some potentially good news here.

I've been in communication with @godaddy and @indexzero about signing a contract that would have me working with GoDaddy to continue doing open-source, as well as transferring over ownership of my http://hook.io project to GoDaddy.

This could potentially be a big win for everyone as it would allow me to continue to develop open-source software under the umbrella of GoDaddy.

I'll let everyone know how this ends up. My fingers are crossed.

@lukeocodes
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@lukeocodes lukeocodes commented Nov 20, 2020

@Marak thats great news!

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