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Major performance (I/O?) issue in /mnt/* and in ~ (home) #873

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Mika56 opened this Issue Aug 11, 2016 · 250 comments

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Mika56 commented Aug 11, 2016

A brief description

As a Symfony developer, it's always been hard to get a stable/fast development environment. My current setup is a Ubuntu running under VirtualBox (using vagrant). While page generation is fast, my IDE accesses my PHP files through SMB, which is really (sometimes horribly) slow.
I'm now trying to use WSL to improve all of this. However, I'm having a major performance issue when using /mnt/* folders.
If I set up a Symfony project under /mnt/c, it is really slow. If I set it up under /home/mikael, it is very fast.

Expected results

Drives mounted under /mnt should be as fast a any other folder.

Actual results

With a new Symfony 3.1.3 project, under /home/mikael takes between 100ms and 130ms to generate the home page.
The same project under /mnt/c/ takes between 1200ms and 1500ms.

Your Windows build number

10.0.14393.51

Steps / commands required to reproduce the error

# Install PHP5
$ sudo apt-get install -y php5 php5-json

# Download Symfony installer
$ sudo curl -LsS https://symfony.com/installer -o /usr/local/bin/symfony
$ sudo chmod a+x /usr/local/bin/symfony

# Download Symfony
cd
symfony new symfony_test

# Start Symfony
cd symfony_test
php bin/console server:run

Open your browser and go to http://127.0.0.1:8000/.
Once the page is loaded, refresh it (on first request, Symfony had to generate its cache).
Generation time is displayed on the bottom left
Image

You can then do the same under /mnt/c/

cd /mnt/c/
symfony new symfony_test
cd symfony_test
php bin/console server:run

Additional information

I've added my dev folders as excluded folders in Windows Defender, as well as %LOCALAPPDATA%\lxss.
I've tried having my project in ~ and pointing my IDE to %LOCALAPPDATA%\lxss\home\mikael\ but as I've later read, there is no supported way of editing WSL files.
WSL is installed in its default location under C (no strange junction or symlink), which is a healthy SSD.
My computer is attached to a domain, if this might have any influence.

@Mika56 Mika56 changed the title Major performance (I/O?) issue Major performance (I/O?) issue in /mnt/* Aug 11, 2016

@fcicq

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fcicq commented Aug 12, 2016

with the current design of DrvFs, I guess this problem is hard to resolve. I recommend you to run a ssh server inside WSL and do the edit via ssh to bypass some other issues.

from https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2016/06/15/wsl-file-system-support/
"DrvFs also disables directory entry caching to ensure it always presents the correct, up-to-date information even if a Windows process has modified the contents of a directory."

@fpqc

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fpqc commented Aug 12, 2016

Also @Mika56 the devs have said they are working on improving performance by redesigning parts of how file I/O works. That's probably why they haven't documented exactly how it works yet, since it is very much in flux at the moment.

@ajaykagrawal

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ajaykagrawal commented Aug 12, 2016

there is no supported way of editing WSL files

I wonder how difficult it would be for popular IDE and text editors to become WSL aware and preserve the attribute of WSL files (the security model may have some inconsistencies but I might be ok with it)

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fpqc commented Aug 12, 2016

@ajaykagrawal Some text-editors have an ability to save in-place rather than overwrite. I heard someone say that they enabled that setting in one or another text editor and it worked.

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ajaykagrawal commented Aug 12, 2016

Thanks @fpqc. I don't quite know what save in-place means but I hope more editors are updated to have this ability

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Mika56 commented Aug 12, 2016

@fcicq I'm using an IDE for a reason :) I need my IDE, and mounting a folder through SSH, FTP, SMB or whatever would be no improvement on my current environment

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fpqc commented Aug 12, 2016

@ajaykagrawal Basically instead of writing a new file and saving over it, the text editor has a delta and applies it to the file, at least that's my guess.

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aseering commented Aug 12, 2016

In the old days, whenever you hit "save", text editors saved into your existing file. This was simple and efficient, but if your editor crashes or was killed mid-save, or if you run out of disk space, or if anything eelse weird happens, you might end up with a corrupt garbled mess that's half the old file and half the new file. Or it might just be completely empty / wipe out all of your data entirely, if your app implemented "save" with an initial truncate, which is easy to do by default on Linux at least.

These days, text editors almost always "save" by creating a temporary file in the same directory, writing the entire new file contents to the temporary file, and then moving the temporary file on top of the old file, overwriting the old file in the process. "Move" within a directory is guaranteed in most cases to be strictly atomic -- even if your computer loses power mid-Move, you'll always be left with either the new file or the old file; not a corrupted intermediate.

Clever, right? Saves lots of "I lost my data!" headaches. Thing is, if an application creates an arbitrary new file, there's no way for the OS to know that it's supposed to have the same magic permissions as some other existing file. That's what's breaking WSL.

Some editors let you go back to the old-style behavior. Has more risk, but avoids issues in some situations.

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fpqc commented Aug 12, 2016

@aseering it looks like Windows move preserves those attribs, or at least robocopy does?

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aseering commented Aug 12, 2016

Read more carefully: It does an excellent job of preserving the attributes of the wrong file :-)

[EDIT] I can't speak for robocopy, just regular move, but what you want in this scenario is the opposite of what you want in most scenarios.

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fpqc commented Aug 13, 2016

@aseering yep I am aware. I just thought that Windows commandline tools preserve even hidden ntfs attributes (moving is different from editing a file, since the atomic operation is done at the filesystem level, I think) like robocopy does.

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aseering commented Aug 13, 2016

@fpqc -- ah, I see what you're getting at. Yeah, applications can copy extended attributes, if they're programmed to do so correctly.

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Adraesh commented Aug 16, 2016

Exactly the same "issue" detailed above, as I am as well a Symfony dev.

My SF projects are all located into /mnt/d/.... my apache2 server (running on ubuntu bash) root folder is linked using a symlink and the perfs are aweful ...

This also lead to some issue with Symfony cache system btw.

@baroso

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baroso commented Sep 7, 2016

I've not noticed any performance issues with my IDE IntelliJ/PHPStorm, but the execution of PHP/Symfony code (running LAMP/Symfony with SuluCMS installed) ist between 4-10 times slower (total execution time) than on a normal Ubuntu system ...

WSL 14915
image
second run
image

Ubuntu 14.04
image
second run
image

Why is it so slow?
Are there any workarounds, maybe moving the vendors folder of Symfony?

If you can fix this issue, it will be the best environment for developing true DOT.NET and true PHP on Windows!!!
Thanks, keep up the great work!!!

@baroso

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baroso commented Oct 12, 2016

Is this issue beeing worked on?

@fpqc

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fpqc commented Oct 12, 2016

@baroso Yep. It's one of their top priorities after getting all the web-programming stuff working.

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nickjj commented Nov 19, 2016

@fpqc Is there another issue to watch to see progress?

Slow mount performance is the only thing holding me back from upgrading to Windows 10 and using WSL.

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fpqc commented Nov 19, 2016

@nickjj All I know is that the devs have said that it is a top priority, but they haven't released details on how they are going to pull it off. It did sound like they have an idea of how to do it though.

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pachkovsky commented Jan 24, 2017

Any updates on this?

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fpqc commented Jan 24, 2017

nope. Mum's the word on this'n. Major performance improvements I think are targeted for RS3 not RS2.

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nickjj commented Jan 24, 2017

What does RS3 mean in the grand scheme of things? Will it still make it into the next official big update?

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fpqc commented Jan 24, 2017

RS3 insiders builds will be rolling out probably in May. Release in December?

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nickjj commented Jan 24, 2017

Thanks. Guess I'll come back next year. Hopefully things are ironed out.

Using the insider's build is out of the question for me due to the severe breach of privacy that it entails.

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bitcrazed commented Feb 13, 2017

@ajaykagrawal As a general rule of thumb, whenever the question "I wonder how difficult it would be" is asked, assume that the answer is "very, very difficult", and/or "takes an enormous amount of time with no guarantee of success" ;)

In this case, imagine trying to get the owner of every application that opens and saves text files to modify their apps to support a different way of opening the files without read locks, and writing changes to those files without destroying extended properties managed by an external process.

If the underlying issue was simple to solve, we'd likely have already solved it. However, yes, we are very aware of the issues and we do aim to work on improving Windows <--> Linux filesystem interop in the future.

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aseering commented Feb 26, 2017

I realize this is a hard problem, but, just reporting that I'm still (build 15042) finding DrvFs to be much slower than Linux for my common use cases, to a degree that impacts my productivity somewhat.

A good specific representative-example workload that I would like to see optimized is the Boost build process:

http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_61_0/more/getting_started/unix-variants.html#easy-build-and-install

The build steps should be heavily CPU-bound in the compiler; that's fine. But I would love to see the final ./b2 install command run faster. In my experience, it's many times slower on Windows than on Linux.

Note that Boost's build system is cross-platform. And the final install command is just as slow under regular Windows :-) It would be wonderful if the Windows version got faster too.

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fpqc commented Feb 26, 2017

@aseering fwiw, the major performance improvements were not planned for RS2. Even 2 months ago the devs were saying it was planned for RS3.

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aseering commented Feb 26, 2017

@fpqc -- yep, I'm just keeping the ticket alive :-)

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aaronfranke commented Feb 1, 2019

Even without eliminating "filters" like Defender, I would still greatly appreciate support for reading EXT4 partitions. It's annoying that I can't read my Linux files while using Windows.

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megakoresh commented Feb 1, 2019

What about incorporating an entirely separate, WSL-only I/O subsystem, perhaps taken from one of the BSDs?

That to me seems like the cleanest solution. Literally a new hard drive partition - maybe an option to enable and create said partition on windows install time. And that would use ext4 or xfs filesystem, not NTFS. Of course those are far beyond the scope of WLS, and it would require changes to Windows as a whole, but both the ability to natively use unix filesystems and elimination of WLS I/O bottlenecks, coupled with increased filesystem-level security that those filesystems provide, I think it would bring a lot of value to Windows as a whole.

I know a lot of people who dual-boot Windows and Linux and would love not to switch to see the other OS's hard drive. And that's just one use-case. Hell, if I had the option to install windows on an xfs filesystem, I wouldn't think twice about it, simply because I find unix file permission system far easier to use and understand than Window's software-defined OS-specific approach.

This is probably borderline off-topic, but still, we can dream right? Stranger things have happened to Windows in the last few years, one of the strangest being the very component we are all discussing here.

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baybal commented Feb 2, 2019

Linux has a top-level directory entry cache that means that certain queries (most notably stat calls) can be serviced without calling into the file system at all once an item is in the cache. Windows has no such cache, and leaves much more up to the file systems. A Win32 path like C:\dir\file gets translated to an NT path like ??\C:\dir\file, where ??\C: is a symlink in Object Manager to a device object like \Device\HarddiskVolume4. Once such a device object is encountered, the entire remainder of the path is just passed to the file system, which is very different to the centralized path parsing that VFS does in Linux.

What about re-engineering your FS stack into nix* like VFS? I don't like the idea of multiple top level directories

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baybal commented Feb 2, 2019

Windows's IO stack is extensible, allowing filter drivers to attach to volumes and intercept IO requests before the file system sees them. This is used for numerous things, including virus scanning, compression, encryption, file virtualization, things like OneDrive's files on demand feature, gathering pre-fetching data to speed up app startup, and much more. Even a clean install of Windows will have a number of filters present, particularly on the system volume (so if you have a D: drive or partition, I recommend using that instead, since it likely has fewer filters attached). Filters are involved in many IO operations, most notably creating/opening files.

What about moving your filter drivers behind the VFS? That should make things much simpler IMHO

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joshudson commented Feb 5, 2019

@baybal : And break UAC folder redirection (good) and Program Files -> Program Files (x86) (bad).

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baybal commented Feb 7, 2019

You can use symlinks for that, or have these folders be run by VFS

@bitcrazed bitcrazed assigned mscraigloewen and unassigned tara-raj Feb 9, 2019

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bitcrazed commented Feb 12, 2019

And here, dear friends, is a great example of why you DO NOT want to disable Defender/Anti-Malware, nor exclude your source code folder from scans:

https://twitter.com/richturn_ms/status/1095207032292929536
image

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megakoresh commented Feb 12, 2019

And here, dear friends, is a great example of why you DO NOT want to disable Defender/Anti-Malware, nor exclude your source code folder from scans:

I'd say this is an example of why you have to always audit your dependencies and that Windows Defender is the only AV you need on Windows 10, not a reason to stop excluding your source code and WLS from scans, which is literally required to make them usable (even on an NVMe SSD).

AV catching a malicious dependency is a stroke of luck - if this guy was in a situation where an AV was the one that picked up that malicious library, I shudder at a thought of what the rest of his projects must be full of.

So let's not give people wrong impressions, ok?

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snickler commented Feb 12, 2019

I'd say this is an example of why you have to always audit your dependencies and that Windows Defender is the only AV you need on Windows 10, not a reason to exclude your source code and WLS from scans, which is literally required to make them usable (even on an NVMe SSD).

Weird... I've never run into an issue with WSL going horrifically slow for me, but then again I'm note loading 9 billion npm packages.

Here's an alternative (which is likely NOT supported, works from what I've tested).

If you're running Ubuntu 18.04 (Don't know about the others), here's the path for the rootfs.

*%LOCALAPPDATA%\Packages\CanonicalGroupLimited.Ubuntu18.04onWindows_79rhkp1fndgsc\LocalState\rootfs*

Open your files from here, edit, shouldn't be slow, workaround applied.

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benhillis commented Feb 12, 2019

@snickler - Do not touch the files in that directory. It is not supported, in fact it's explicitly not supported.

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snickler commented Feb 12, 2019

@benhillis - That's what I figured. I kept my file editing in the context of my home directory, just in case I completely nuked something.

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sarim commented Feb 13, 2019

@bitcrazed It is nice wow moment, but in reality how much damage( if any ) such a malware/virus could do in WSL's quasi-linux environment? npm and similar runs on linux systems and linux system normally don't have real time antivirus running on them. We don't hear news of linux systems being plagued by viruses.

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valorin commented Feb 13, 2019

@sarim if it's an NPM dependency, then you're looking at code which will most likely end up being included in a production web application. Once there, the malware can do whatever it likes with your customer's data... steal credit cards, harvest passwords, install malware, include cryptominers... the possibilities are endless.
See: https://hackernoon.com/im-harvesting-credit-card-numbers-and-passwords-from-your-site-here-s-how-9a8cb347c5b5 and https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/26/npm_repo_bitcoin_stealer/

Also, WSL has full access to your Windows environment (files and apps), so we could see NPM dependency malware start to target WSL dev environments with the intention of interacting with the Windows environment. It could easily steal information, replace system binaries, or do whatever it likes.

WSL isn't a sandboxed virtual machine, it's part of Windows and part of your production build process.

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bitcrazed commented Feb 14, 2019

@snickler DUDE! SERIOUSLY! I am SURE you've read this, right?:

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2016/11/17/do-not-change-linux-files-using-windows-apps-and-tools/

As this post states:
image

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snickler commented Feb 14, 2019

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bitcrazed commented Feb 14, 2019

Good man - won't hold it against you because it is tricky to keep up to date on where we are with lots of this stuff :)

But know that this guidance will remain in force until we eventually engineer an effective solution allowing you to directly access your Linux files from Windows.

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bitcrazed commented Feb 14, 2019

@sarim. With respect, just because you may not notice malware outbreaks on Linux, there is nothing magical in Linux that prevents malware infestations and attacks. For example:

21 new malware families hit the Linux ecosystem.

Also, it's worth noting that the top 6 products with the most CVE's in 2018 were Linux and/or Android. This isn't to gloat in any way (Microsoft still clearly has work to do in Windows, even though Windows is no longer topping this chart) - but its important to separate fact from fiction.

The irony with WSL is that distros and ELF binaries run atop WSL which contains no Linux code, and thus arent susceptable to many of the Linux kernel CVE's noted above.

And as @valorin kindly pointed out, your distros run atop WSL, alongside your Windows apps, and share the same filesystem and network stack. So a malicious Linux tool can still do a lot of damage without requiring admin rights (e.g. delete all your personal files and folders)

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bitcrazed commented Feb 14, 2019

@megakoresh "So let's not give people wrong impressions, ok?"

To be frank, giving people the impression that they really don't need to be bothered about protecting themselves from malware is perhaps the wrong impression.

We're working across several teams right now to figure out an effective solution to this perf issue and despite the perf impact. In the meantime, we recomemnd patience.

We do NOT recommend disabling Defender (or your chosen 3rd party anti-malware suite), nor do we recommend you exclude WSL folders nor your source folders.

Is it common that source repo's contain or reference packages containing malware? No, but they do, and by disabling AM, you're explicitly exposing yourself (and others through your "guidance") to that malware.

All it takes is one piece of malware to completely destroy a project - if you can live with that risk, then go nuts, but don't complain if you lose everything you've worked on.

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bitcrazed commented Feb 14, 2019

@aaronfranke - appreciate the feedback, but please don't raise new issues within unrelated issues. There are several threads already discussing EXT4 here and in our UserVoice: https://wpdev.uservoice.com/forums/266908-command-prompt-console-windows-subsystem-for-l/suggestions/13818042-support-mounting-xfs-ext2-ext3-ext4-etc-partition

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joshudson commented Feb 14, 2019

I'm the one who first brought up antivirus, as something that needs to be disabled to get fair I/O benchmarks. I would not broadly advocate not running it without very specific risk mitigations, which is off-topix here.

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oblitum commented Feb 15, 2019

I'd like to leave my 2 cents. I consider the AV solution plain dumb as protection and risk mitigation. Seriously it's dumb. How many times serious infosec people like Joanna Rutkowska have covered that? Defender itself has a past track of doing exactly the opposite, and being a root level JS engine backdoor, I mean, this really happened (I dunno how many times), and it's just not Defender to blame, other AV's have gone the same route of turning the system less safe.

I'm an user of several OSes, some strong ones on that aspect (Tails, Qubes OS), and if I really care for safety, having an runtime engine hooking on every file operation is not the solution I'd be looking for (none of those much more safe OSes does this), it's not only ineffective, it breaks the basic functionality of I/O itself, it's just not I/O anymore, and for I/O, I just want damn I/O. Do I buy faster disks just to get gratuitous bottleneck on the processor/memory?

Having a pervasive, and, most importantly, permanent, AV runtime cost for I/O operations isn't a smart solution to the problem, I just see it as a business decision to go berserk at eliminating the average malware that targets the average joe (which should be the major part of the problem in numbers), at the expense of performance (that the average joe have no idea about and just got used to slowness).

Seriously, AV runtime cost for every files access, all the time, without an option, may work to solve Microsoft's problem with the average Joe, but it doesn't make sense for me. And for WSL it proved to be a complete flop, last time I used procmon to pinpoint it was Defender that was causing like a 1000x slowness completely freezing experience I simply turned the thing OFF for good.

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MikeGitb commented Feb 15, 2019

The thing for me is plain and simple: With defender turned on completely, wsl is too slow for me to use for development (mostly c++). So it is not a question of turning av on or of, but either using wsl without AV or using a Linux vm. Both of which have different advantages and disadvantages.

Now the thing I'm actually wondering (but might be off-topic here): Does an AV really have to intercept every IO that is happening? Does Defender do that?

I can understand, that onece I've installed a new packet, the AV wants to have a look at it, but afterwards it should not need to look at the files again until they are modified. no?

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aseering commented Feb 18, 2019

@bitcrazed I feel compelled to jump in as a "me too!": I am keenly aware of the importance of security in general and antivirus in particular. I have had machines (both Windows and Linux) hacked or infected in the past. I also have enough of a security background to know how many ways there are to attack a system these days. I still exclude my code from Windows Defender despite that high risk because the day-to-day productivity cost is simply too high.

I would really be excited to see a version of Windows Defender, even a more limited version that addressed fewer (but carefully chosen) threat models, that ran 10x faster in expectation.

In the meantime, I make sure my code is backed up somewhere where my credentials can't delete it, I do some network-level monitoring to reduce the risk of (or damage due to) exfiltration, and I make sure access to any prod services or user data is very carefully managed. Not perfect but it's the best I've got.

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megakoresh commented Feb 18, 2019

To be frank, giving people the impression that they really don't need to be bothered about protecting themselves from malware is perhaps the wrong impression.

A "wrong impression" is one implying that your AV will protect you from malicious dependencies. News you linked get posted because of their rarity, not because it's normal for AV programs to pick up threats like that. Defender, just like any other antivirus may protect your grandma from what's hiding under a large download button, that a million other grandmas already clicked, but it is not going to keep you safe from malicious code in unchecked dependencies or sophisticated targeted attacks.

So enabling it for your WLS is going to make the latter completely useless, as we know, at no extra benefit and at risk of assumption that just because Defender is now looking after it, it's somehow in any way safer than it was before. And that is a wrong impression. I know that you can't "recommend" that you exclude anything from AV, since you work for Microsoft, however if I had to either fight common sense or stay silent, I'd stay silent.

I would also greatly appreciate if you didn't pull my words out of context, as this is not a BBC newsroom.

Bottom line is: you are your best AV, and you are responsible for making sure your code is safe and backed up. If your AV picks up an infected dependency in your project, that's a sign it has long since been needing a serious audit, not a sign that you can trust your AV to keep your stuff safe from now on.

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EmpiricEmpire commented Feb 18, 2019

@bitcrazed @benhillis this issue long ago turned to a little chit-chat for every passerby ♥ Please lock the discussion for collaborators only.

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oblitum commented Feb 20, 2019

@EmpiricEmpire, welcome to GitHub.

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nlhnt commented Mar 14, 2019

I am rooting for improvements to come sooner or later.
Sollution idea provided by @DemiMarie could be worth looking into?

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