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Update Semver2 package details message (add Paket) #4448

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forki commented Jul 21, 2017

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gep13 Jul 31, 2017

While in principle I have no objection with this PR (I think it's addition would be a welcome hat-tip to Paket) I do think that listing Paket before the NuGet CLI is not helping with it's possibility for getting merged.

gep13 commented Jul 31, 2017

While in principle I have no objection with this PR (I think it's addition would be a welcome hat-tip to Paket) I do think that listing Paket before the NuGet CLI is not helping with it's possibility for getting merged.

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abdullin Aug 1, 2017

@gep13 are there any guidelines defining order in which open source NuGet clients have to be featured?

abdullin commented Aug 1, 2017

@gep13 are there any guidelines defining order in which open source NuGet clients have to be featured?

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gep13 Aug 2, 2017

@abdullin said...
are there any guidelines defining order in which open source NuGet clients have to be featured?

I can say with certainty, even though I haven't checked, that there are no such guidelines. However, given that the documentation in question is hosted on nuget.org, I would regard it as common decency to list the NuGet CLI as the first in the list of possible CLI tools to consume packages from the website. Although, this in just my opinion you understand...

gep13 commented Aug 2, 2017

@abdullin said...
are there any guidelines defining order in which open source NuGet clients have to be featured?

I can say with certainty, even though I haven't checked, that there are no such guidelines. However, given that the documentation in question is hosted on nuget.org, I would regard it as common decency to list the NuGet CLI as the first in the list of possible CLI tools to consume packages from the website. Although, this in just my opinion you understand...

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cdrnet Aug 2, 2017

The one which is currently, both with and without this PR, listed first is Visual Studio, not NuGet CLI. Both VisualStudio and Paket can be considered as third party clients (with different governance, ownership than NuGet). What makes them so fundamentally different?

cdrnet commented Aug 2, 2017

The one which is currently, both with and without this PR, listed first is Visual Studio, not NuGet CLI. Both VisualStudio and Paket can be considered as third party clients (with different governance, ownership than NuGet). What makes them so fundamentally different?

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NickCraver Aug 2, 2017

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Both Visual Studio and Paket can be considered as third party clients

This is not correct. The NuGet clients in Visual Studio and the CLI itself are both maintained by the NuGet team and supported (this term has significant meaning). The order of any lists like this is priority users are expected to try them in, the same as from highest to lowest volume. If a user is on NuGet.org, they are far more likely to have the NuGet CLI than they are to have the Paket CLI, that's just the install base reality by a huge margin.

One can argue the order doesn't matter, in which case they shouldn't mind changing it when shown it does. Or they can argue it does matter, which is an issue against the PR as-is as @gep13 says. But one can't argue it both ways, they have to pick one.

I personally have no objection to Paket being included, and am assuming the best intentions here with naivety in ordering. IMO, fixing it would show a willingness to work with each other.

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NickCraver commented Aug 2, 2017

Both Visual Studio and Paket can be considered as third party clients

This is not correct. The NuGet clients in Visual Studio and the CLI itself are both maintained by the NuGet team and supported (this term has significant meaning). The order of any lists like this is priority users are expected to try them in, the same as from highest to lowest volume. If a user is on NuGet.org, they are far more likely to have the NuGet CLI than they are to have the Paket CLI, that's just the install base reality by a huge margin.

One can argue the order doesn't matter, in which case they shouldn't mind changing it when shown it does. Or they can argue it does matter, which is an issue against the PR as-is as @gep13 says. But one can't argue it both ways, they have to pick one.

I personally have no objection to Paket being included, and am assuming the best intentions here with naivety in ordering. IMO, fixing it would show a willingness to work with each other.

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gep13 Aug 2, 2017

@NickCraver said...
I personally have no objection to Paket being included, and am assuming the best intentions here with naivety in ordering. IMO, fixing it would show a willingness to work with each other.

Couldn't agree more.

From my own point of view (and again that is all that it is) I took the current wording which is:

This package is only available for download with Visual Studio 2017 (version 15.3) and above or with NuGet client 4.3.0 and above.

To mean:

This package is only available for download <from these IDE's> or with <these CLI tools>

As a result, this PR (#4089) which extends the list of IDE's that can be used made sense, preserving the order as suggested by @NickCraver.

Should these two PR's be merged, I would suggest that the end result should be something like:

This package is only available for download with Visual Studio 2017 (version 15.3) and above, or JetBrains Rider, or with NuGet client 4.3.0 and above or Paket 5.0 and above.

gep13 commented Aug 2, 2017

@NickCraver said...
I personally have no objection to Paket being included, and am assuming the best intentions here with naivety in ordering. IMO, fixing it would show a willingness to work with each other.

Couldn't agree more.

From my own point of view (and again that is all that it is) I took the current wording which is:

This package is only available for download with Visual Studio 2017 (version 15.3) and above or with NuGet client 4.3.0 and above.

To mean:

This package is only available for download <from these IDE's> or with <these CLI tools>

As a result, this PR (#4089) which extends the list of IDE's that can be used made sense, preserving the order as suggested by @NickCraver.

Should these two PR's be merged, I would suggest that the end result should be something like:

This package is only available for download with Visual Studio 2017 (version 15.3) and above, or JetBrains Rider, or with NuGet client 4.3.0 and above or Paket 5.0 and above.

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abdullin Aug 2, 2017

@gep13 To make is easier to accept the final PR it could even be reworded as:

This package is only available for download with Visual Studio 2017 (version 15.3) and above, or with NuGet client 4.3.0 and above, or JetBrains Rider or Paket 5.0 and above.

This properly highlights VS & NuGet as the primary tools, while still indicating compatibility for the other tools used by the community.

abdullin commented Aug 2, 2017

@gep13 To make is easier to accept the final PR it could even be reworded as:

This package is only available for download with Visual Studio 2017 (version 15.3) and above, or with NuGet client 4.3.0 and above, or JetBrains Rider or Paket 5.0 and above.

This properly highlights VS & NuGet as the primary tools, while still indicating compatibility for the other tools used by the community.

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gep13 Aug 2, 2017

@abdullin I can't argue with that.

gep13 commented Aug 2, 2017

@abdullin I can't argue with that.

Merge pull request #1 from isaacabraham/change-ordering
Change Paket ordering in message warning.
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forki Aug 2, 2017

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No order intended. Just copied what the rider guys did in #4089. Order now changed

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forki commented Aug 2, 2017

No order intended. Just copied what the rider guys did in #4089. Order now changed

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gep13 approved these changes Aug 2, 2017

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