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Bring back mobile editing for the community edition or at least a cheaper license for this #805

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arnowelzel opened this issue Mar 10, 2020 · 91 comments

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@arnowelzel
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@arnowelzel arnowelzel commented Mar 10, 2020

Do you want to request a feature or report a bug?
feature
What is the current behavior?
When opening a document in the Nextcloud App on an Android device and the sever runs the community edition of OnlyOffice, a message pops up and says that mobile editing is not possible with the open source version. The same happens when opening a document in a browser which runs in mobile device.

Eventhough I understand, that OnlyOffice also needs to earn some money, paying 950 EUR just to get mobile editing is way too much if you just want to use this as a private person for yourself and your family and friends.
If the current behavior is a bug, please provide the steps to reproduce and if possible a minimal demo of the problem.

What is the expected behavior?
Editing documents in the browser or when opening them in the Nextcloud App is possible.
Did this work in previous versions of DocumentServer?
Yes
DocumentServer version:
5.5.0
Operating System:
Ubuntu Linux 16.04 on the server
Android 9 with Nextcloud 3.10.1

Browser version:
Firefox 68.5.0 running in Android 9

@Dextroz

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@Dextroz Dextroz commented Mar 18, 2020

This is pretty dirty... Was there any pre-warning that they were going to drop this support in the community version? I cannot see anything in the changelogs which references this...

EDIT:
Nevermind. It's here for the changelogs. However, I still cannot find any mention of dropping support prior to this. 😞

Mobile Editors

    Mobile editors available only for paid version

👎

@Zegorax

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 18, 2020

I second this. This change is really a bad move from OnlyOffice. I had a good trust on you with all the partnership with NextCloud etc, until now.

@Xeyk

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@Xeyk Xeyk commented Mar 19, 2020

Dropped.

Scumbags.

@immanuelfodor

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@immanuelfodor immanuelfodor commented Mar 19, 2020

This is real bad news for home usage after such strong partnership announcements with Nextcloud. At least lower the price to 10 bucks or something that people might consider to pay. Or change license to allow unrestricted home usage and make companies pay for theirs.

@warnerbryce

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@warnerbryce warnerbryce commented Mar 19, 2020

Users get trapped in the honeypot !
Now it’s really clear that NC HUb have to drop this opencore project from their product !
It will be a major trust crisis for NC

@YarmoM

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@YarmoM YarmoM commented Mar 19, 2020

9 days, no reply from the developers. People/companies need to make money, fair enough. But not this way.

@macmiranda

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@macmiranda macmiranda commented Mar 19, 2020

For people getting a fully-featured enterprise-grade software for free, some of you guys are not very grateful, are you?
Didn't you consider just for a second that they knew there would be a backlash about this and they went ahead anyway?
If you need Android apps for editing your documents, there are tons out there (including Microsoft's) so why do you need to use this github collaborative tacking system (also brought to you for free by Microsoft) as a wall of shame?
Guess what, you are free to change to a competitor, there is no lock-in. Spin up a docker with Collabora On-line and you're good to go (see ReinerNippes/nextcloud_on_docker#50). Being a former user of Collabora, I'm happy that Onlyoffice is an alternative, as flawed as it may be.
BTW, I found the feature description by @arnowelzel to be very polite and a nice ask but the comments just went south from there...

@warnerbryce

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@warnerbryce warnerbryce commented Mar 19, 2020

@YarmoM
Step One : Make a nice feature that everybody wants.
Make a fake level saying no more than 20 connections for having some money on the 50 connections server
Step Two : Give another nice feature for everyone, like mobile edit
Step Three : Take this last feature away for no reason, asking for money because this feature isn't made for the community server...

Normally on step four you should have a lot of money in your wallet... or the wrath of all a community on you...
I hope they will change their mind... but i doubt

@warnerbryce

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@warnerbryce warnerbryce commented Mar 19, 2020

For people getting a fully-featured enterprise-grade software for free, some of you guys are not very grateful, are you?
Didn't you consider just for a second that they knew there would be a backlash about this and they went ahead anyway?
If you need Android apps for editing your documents, there are tons out there (including Microsoft's) so why do you need to use this github collaborative tacking system (also brought to you for free by Microsoft) as a wall of shame?
Guess what, you are free to change to a competitor, there is no lock-in. Spin up a docker with Collabora On-line and you're good to go (see ReinerNippes/nextcloud_on_docker#50). Being a former user of Collabora, I'm happy that Onlyoffice is an alternative, as flawed as it may be.
BTW, I found the feature description by @arnowelzel to be very polite and a nice ask but the comments just went south from there...

The price for the 50 connections server isn't really high if you're considering having 50 connections. It's less than the Office 365 plan, but if you are 21 users... it's kind of hard to pay for it.
I rather be willing to pay 10€/month as a donation for having a free software rather than 3,71€/month/per users (if you are 21 users) for a proprietary software that have nothing more than the community version.

I still use the OnlyOffice Docker DocumentServer but i'm rolling back to LOOL (LibreOffice Online) without limitation.

@army1349

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@army1349 army1349 commented Mar 19, 2020

For people getting a fully-featured enterprise-grade software for free, some of you guys are not very grateful, are you?

Oh yeah, mobile era mobile-read-only fully-featured enterprise-grade software for free.

@edo0

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@edo0 edo0 commented Mar 19, 2020

Scum company, shady as fuck. To be boycotted at all costs

@YarmoM

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@YarmoM YarmoM commented Mar 19, 2020

Can we politely agree that this is about how the decision was presented? Or more specifically, the lack of presentation?

I will reiterate, companies gotta make money, undeniably. And if we got a warning of any sorts, I would have considered my options.

But dropping it this way, making us discover by ourselves that a fundamental feature was taken away, that is the problem. That is not us being ungrateful, that is a company taking its community for granted. Many companies attempt it, few thrive under it.

And you may forgive them on this occasion, but what will they take away next update? What will change once I am fully invested in their ecosystem and dependent on it? These decisions are what makes a company or a project untrustworthy. I personally don't need a mobile editor. I need a reliable project.

A free and decent online office offering without mobile apps is something I am willing to consider (sorry I don't have $950 laying around). But don't treat your users like garbage, especially when the competition is so close.

@TheManchineel

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@TheManchineel TheManchineel commented Mar 19, 2020

docker pull onlyoffice/documentserver:5.4.2.46

@warnerbryce

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@warnerbryce warnerbryce commented Mar 19, 2020

@TheManchineel Yes, it's nice to have this, but it's still a regression because we won't have updates.
But it's a nice touch before rolling to something else.

@TheManchineel

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@TheManchineel TheManchineel commented Mar 19, 2020

I wouldn't be suprised if somebody forked this removing the OO name, 20 connections restriction, enabling mobile editing and backporting updates every once in a while into the fork as they come out. Might even cause Ascensio to reconsider the FOSS model, a-la Emby vs. Jellyfin.

@petrk94

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@petrk94 petrk94 commented Mar 19, 2020

@TheManchineel Yes, it's nice to have this, but it's still a regression because we won't have updates.
But it's a nice touch before rolling to something else.

honestly, in german schools are still fews which run MS Office 2007, I think I could even live without updates that fast.

@TheManchineel

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@TheManchineel TheManchineel commented Mar 19, 2020

@TheManchineel Yes, it's nice to have this, but it's still a regression because we won't have updates.
But it's a nice touch before rolling to something else.

honestly, in german schools are still fews which run MS Office 2007, I think I could even live without updates that fast.

This. Like, I get it, no updates are bad because security, lack of new features and all, but for people who just need a simple document editor, are they really all that important?

@e-alfred

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@e-alfred e-alfred commented Mar 19, 2020

Might even cause Ascensio to reconsider the FOSS model

They never were a real FLOSS company, it is just a marketing ploy for them (aka USP) to lure more customers (like "see, we are "Open Source" too"). Their lack of response and communication with the community shows it all.

@Galegod

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 20, 2020

Hi all,

Let me try to explain a little bit how and why ONLYOFFICE has not included mobile web version to the latest release of Community Edition Document Server.

First - we didn't want to make things look that way and there was no intention to close the code and make money out of the community. I agree with some of the opinions here - we needed to better cover the situation fo all, really a question to think about, but hope it is never too late.

We have published Document Server under AGPL v3 and we continue to keep the work completely open and available for all. Web editing for mobile devices is the only feature not included to the latest release. But again - we do have free mobile apps and this is how we plan to move - creating cool application to work with documents on your devices in this mobile era.

All features including mobile web editing are still free for contributors, this is how we understand a fair open source project. Are you ready to contribute in any way - just raise the hand and take the latest version which supports not only viewing in web version but also the editing.
Do not want to invest in ONLYOFFICE and just want to use on your home server - we also have an option, guys, Home Server, and it is just 99$. We have added this option thanks to the issue opened by @arnowelzel as this seems to be a good way to make both sides happy. Do you think it could be a reasonable price for an online office suite (perpetual)?

Then the main question - why we had to exclude the mobile web editing from the Community Edition update:
that's right, ONLYOFFICE is open source, but at the same time we have to make sure that we are able to continue our work and won't be just thrown out of the market by any IT service provider who starts offering some service based on our project without supporting its further development. It is not just a theory, unfortunately this happens every day as you can see. Also with ONLYOFFICE to my regret.

The feedback we get with the latest events definitely help us to review all the options we can imagine to stay on the stage and continue to work on the online document editors.

@Zegorax

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 20, 2020

For example, it is impossible to use your native mobile apps with NextCloud / OwnCloud. They require your ONLYOFFICE ERP system.

Quick edit : You can use them with another cloud provider now. But you cannot use the collaborative feature since the editor is on the device, and not using the one installed at your provider.

It's really a bad move from OnlyOffice.

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 20, 2020

For example, it is impossible to use your native mobile apps with NextCloud / OwnCloud. They require your ONLYOFFICE ERP system.

...which is by the way an open source thing under GPL v2

But we do not plan to stop at this point, hope now we have won some time to further development.

@Zegorax

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 20, 2020

Yes we now it's open-source. But for example, it is nowhere near equivalent in functionalities as Odoo or other systems. Your online editor is great and really good, and the fact that you allow to integrate it in other systems (Nextcloud, Owncloud, etc...) is the best point.

But luring people into having trust in your products, just to remove features without any prior notice is just dishonest and not a great way to build trust for your customers.

@Galegod

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 20, 2020

Agree, the main mistake was to not tell more in advance, this is what we definitelly need to change

@Zegorax

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 20, 2020

I would advise you to restore this feature in the next version of OnlyOffice and focusing on new features that maybe won't be available in the newer versions instead.

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 20, 2020

Yes we now it's open-source. But for example, it is nowhere near equivalent in functionalities as Odoo or other systems. Your online editor is great and really good, and the fact that you allow to integrate it in other systems (Nextcloud, Owncloud, etc...) is the best point.

And we still completely support a lot of integrations to other systems which can be more known or suitable for the users and add new document storage/erp/mail/crm and other for ONLYOFFICE users https://api.onlyoffice.com/editors/plugins. Every move takes time and resources so we make all possible to make ONLYOFFICE handy.

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 20, 2020

Quick edit : You can use them with another cloud provider now. But you cannot use the collaborative feature since the editor is on the device, and not using the one installed at your provider.

Probably this is a good question to the provider....And where we have started with this situation.

@TheManchineel

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@TheManchineel TheManchineel commented Mar 20, 2020

Do not want to invest in ONLYOFFICE and just want to use on your home server - we also have an option, guys, Home Server, and it is just 99$.

Yes, thanks. I didn't know it was an option. Does it support Docker & how does one activate it?

@immanuelfodor

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@immanuelfodor immanuelfodor commented Mar 20, 2020

For example, it is impossible to use your native mobile apps with NextCloud / OwnCloud. They require your ONLYOFFICE ERP system.

...which is by the way an open source thing under GPL v2

I self-host a Nextcolud instance, and I wouldn't like to install some random ERP system just to be able to edit a couple of documents on the go a few times in a year. When I need to edit something via mobile, it's like a life-saver that I can/could do it on the web version.

All features including mobile web editing are still free for contributors, this is how we understand a fair open source project. Are you ready to contribute in any way - just raise the hand and take the latest version which supports not only viewing in web version but also the editing.

Could you please tell more about this option, how could one access the contributor version? This way there would be no need for the previous option.

@immanuelfodor

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@immanuelfodor immanuelfodor commented Mar 21, 2020

BTW, the contribution edition (integration edition Docker image with the contributor license) indeed gives back the mobile edit feature 😍

Screenshot_20200321-172356

@tnyeanderson

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@tnyeanderson tnyeanderson commented Mar 22, 2020

Killer damage control guys: a small admission with a nice price tag attached

Are you going to realize how damaging to your reputation this is? If you want to have separate licenses, then have SEPARATE FEATURES. Develop new features FOR your enterprise products. Don't remove them (quietly) from your open edition, then make a sorry blog post only AFTER you are called out on it.

Just put the functionality back in and apologize for this deceptive behavior.... and then STOP being deceptive.

@warnerbryce

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@warnerbryce warnerbryce commented Mar 22, 2020

First-month discount
Home Server costs $149 per year, but during the first month after launch, you can buy it for $99! The discount is valid until April 19.

😂

@Dextroz

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@Dextroz Dextroz commented Mar 22, 2020

Something which I find confusing. On the announcement page under the what’s included section it says lifetime license but then further down it says per year?

$99 seems a bit steep for home server use but bearable. But $149 just for a home server for one year is steep imo.

@e-alfred

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@e-alfred e-alfred commented Mar 22, 2020

As @arnowelzel said due to the rapid release cycle of Nextcloud and the fact that this is a public facing service you would have to pay yearly to get updates, otherwise it won't work anymore at one point or somebody would exploit potential security issues.

This makes the term "lifetime" just a useless phrase, because you have to pay subscription-style to keep it working. And after the 99€ (exchange rate of course 1:1) it will cost you 149€ per year.

@Zegorax

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 22, 2020

I made something yesterday evening that can help you all. You can find it here : https://github.com/Zegorax/OnlyOffice-Unlimited

@tnyeanderson

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@tnyeanderson tnyeanderson commented Mar 22, 2020

@Zegorax while I appreciate the hard work and elegant solution, starting a game of licensing cat-and-mouse isn't going to help this situation. Additionally, it wastes the ONLYOFFICE team's resources and gives them someone else to blame. The responsibility needs to continue to be placed squarely on their shoulders, and not shifted back onto the users.

@Zegorax

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 22, 2020

You are absolutely right and I support your point of view. I made this out of a fun night and it was working quite well at the end so I published it. Bonus point, I'm not even breaking the AGPLv3 license.

@e-alfred

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@e-alfred e-alfred commented Mar 22, 2020

I think in the Nextcloud case, regarding one year of work from @nextcloud integrating Onlyoffice into their "Nextcloud Hub" and giving a huge boost in promotion and ease of installation to Onlyoffice it would be good move to bring back and allow mobile editing inside the Nextcloud clients as a goodwill gesture in the Open Source version.

@Galegod

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 23, 2020

I made something yesterday evening that can help you all. You can find it here : https://github.com/Zegorax/OnlyOffice-Unlimited
Bonus point, I'm not even breaking the AGPLv3 license.

@Zegorax Are you sure you understand well enough what you are doing right now? The version you offer the license keys for - is not AGPL v3 Community Edition.
You have hacked our commercially distributed version - Integration Edition.
Here is the proprietary license agreement link https://onlyo.co/3dniPIq

Hope you correct the situation asap.

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 23, 2020

I never agreed to such an agreement. I made this script for https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/DocumentServer, which is AGPLv3, as described here : https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/DocumentServer/blob/master/LICENSE.txt

Edit : I do not offer license keys either.

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 23, 2020

This makes the term "lifetime" just a useless phrase, because you have to pay subscription-style to keep it working. And after the 99€ (exchange rate of course 1:1) it will cost you 149€ per year.

Sorry for being not clear enough, the contributor version will be always free for all the people who take part in the project.

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 23, 2020

I never agreed to such an agreement. I made this script for https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/DocumentServer, which is AGPLv3, as described here : https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/DocumentServer/blob/master/LICENSE.txt

Edit : I do not offer license keys either.

@Zegorax I suggest you check what version you have installed with your script - you can see the ABOUT section with all the references...
You might have known open source versions rarely require any license keys, right?

@Zegorax

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 23, 2020

license.js (https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/server/blob/master/Common/sources/license.js) is present in DocumentServer ruled by AGPLv3, open-sourced and present in your repository.

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 23, 2020

license.js (https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/server/blob/master/Common/sources/license.js) is present in DocumentServer ruled by AGPLv3, open-sourced and present in your repository.

Yes, but you take Integration Edition od Document Server, a commercial product, not the Community Edition, which you mentioned in the link
image

@Zegorax

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 23, 2020

Yes I fixed that, since it was only a comment. If you look at the code of my script, it doesn't install / use / download any of your products. If you want, we can chat about that in the chat of the document you've sent me. (https://onlyo.co/3dniPIq)

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 23, 2020

Yes I fixed that, since it was only a comment. If you look at the code of my script, it doesn't install / use / download any of your products. If you want, we can chat about that in the chat of the document you've sent me. (https://onlyo.co/3dniPIq)

You fixed what? A proprietary product? I suggest you think twice since there is nothing about fair compliance with license, just a mistake on your side I hope.

@tnyeanderson

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@tnyeanderson tnyeanderson commented Mar 23, 2020

Now the Onlyoffice team has a choice: will they spend their time and resources arguing with Zegorax and trying to mitigate his "solution"? Or will they spend their time actually making NEW features to put behind a paywall, so they can stop taking old ones away?

Seems the former. Shame.

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 23, 2020

You fixed what? A proprietary product? I suggest you think twice since there is nothing about fair compliance with license, just a mistake on your side I hope.

I fixed the usage of "Integration Edition", which was incorrect. You can even see it in the commit screenshot you've sent earlier.

@Galegod

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 23, 2020

You fixed what? A proprietary product? I suggest you think twice since there is nothing about fair compliance with license, just a mistake on your side I hope.

I fixed the usage of "Integration Edition", which was incorrect. You can even see it in the commit screenshot you've sent earlier.

Integration Edition https://www.onlyoffice.com/ru/integration-edition-prices.aspx
Community Edition https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/DocumentServer

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 23, 2020

You do not understand what I'm talking about. I made this script for DocumentServer, which is ruled by AGPLv3. Why are you insisting of Integration Edition when I've already explained that I used this term incorrectly ?

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@arnowelzel arnowelzel commented Mar 23, 2020

Why does the Community Edition need a license key?

@Zegorax

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@Zegorax Zegorax commented Mar 23, 2020

Why does the Community Edition need a license key?

Community Edition has a maximum of 20 concurrent users without a license

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@tnyeanderson tnyeanderson commented Mar 23, 2020

@Galegod no one wants to be creating and using this script right now, I hope you understand that.

You can either listen to your community, or you can fight it.

No one is mad that some features are behind a paywall.

We are mad because the features were removed from the open edition.

We are mad because the features were removed from the open edition quietly.

We are mad because the features were removed from the open edition quietly, then a "cheaper", "lifetime" (but actually really just one year) license was created to try to control the outrage.

Then you did EXACTLY what I predicted: instead of engaging with the actual issue (the labelled issue at the top of this page), you are arguing with a user who created a script BECAUSE OF WHAT ONLYOFFICE DID.

None of this would have happened if the features hadn't been quietly removed.

Just admit it was a bad move, reverse it, and MOVE ON. Open up an issue on Zegorax/OnlyOffice-Unlimited if you want to discuss that situation, which is off-topic for this thread.

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 23, 2020

Community Edition has a maximum of 20 concurrent users without a license

@Zegorax Community Edition like all the software with open source does not require any licenses

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@tnyeanderson tnyeanderson commented Mar 23, 2020

@Galegod From the Community Edition link that you posted (still arguing a red herring, please move on from this):

Simultaneous connections up to 20 maximum
@warnerbryce

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@warnerbryce warnerbryce commented Mar 23, 2020

Community Edition has a maximum of 20 concurrent users without a license

Community Edition have a maximum of 20 concurrent users limit hardcoded before compilation. You can modify the file and then compile OnlyOffice to break this limitation

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@Galegod Galegod commented Mar 23, 2020

I see and agree that changing anything in an open source project isn't that right as I have already admitted. The fact is we HAD to limit the mobile web version feature since the question is about the future of ONLYOFFICE.

But not for the community! As I have said - we still have the contribution version for all who want help.

  • Yes, we understand that this is a very risky step.
  • Yes, we see that many our users are dissatisfied.
  • Yes, we would be more than happy to not take such a step.

But again - would you prefer ONLYOFFICE to continue to develop a lot of new feautres for document co-editing online, for e2e securing the content of your files, form filling, also a lot of not yet inetgrated features for spreadsheets or presentations, brand new mobile apps and a lot of others (ans yes, some of them has to be paid features, sorry for that)?
Or is it ok for you that ONLYOFFICE can die just because someone decided to make money out of it without taking into account its future existence?

I hope this does not sound too pathetic and I apologize for the fact that I can not be more specific in why we had to make this really unpopular decision, but I love our project too much to let it go down.

Again - you are welcome to take the contribution version is it not an option for a community? ONLYOFFICE needs your support, not blaming.

@ONLYOFFICE ONLYOFFICE locked as resolved and limited conversation to collaborators Mar 23, 2020
@agolybev agolybev closed this Mar 23, 2020
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