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Possible description bug. Behaviour of unit in return fire stance doesn't match tooltip description on command bar. #14341

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goonyaa opened this Issue Nov 11, 2017 · 7 comments

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@goonyaa

goonyaa commented Nov 11, 2017

From tooltip description:

Set the selected units to Return Fire stance:

  • Units will retaliate against enemies that attack them
  • Units will not move or pursue enemies

Set unit stance to "ReturnFire".
Enemy unit comes in range.
Enemy unit attacks.
Unit retaliates.
Enemy unit moves away.
Expected unit to not move according to tooltip description.
Unit pursues enemy unit instead.

Tested in openra-ra(release-20171014) on Ubuntu 17.04

@abcdefg30 abcdefg30 added the Bug label Nov 11, 2017

@abcdefg30 abcdefg30 added this to the Next release milestone Nov 11, 2017

@pchote pchote removed this from the Next release milestone Dec 17, 2017

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matjaeck Aug 12, 2018

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Present in playtest-20180729.

#14816 shows how deadly this bug can be.

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matjaeck commented Aug 12, 2018

Present in playtest-20180729.

#14816 shows how deadly this bug can be.

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reaperrr Aug 12, 2018

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Moving to Next+1 milestone so we don't forget to at least investigate this.

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reaperrr commented Aug 12, 2018

Moving to Next+1 milestone so we don't forget to at least investigate this.

@reaperrr reaperrr added this to the Next + 1 milestone Aug 12, 2018

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FrameLimiter Aug 13, 2018

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The tooltip description should be:
"Units will not move or pursue enemies unless attacked"

AutoTarget's AllowMovement: [Desc("It will try to hunt down the enemy if it is not set to defend.")]

allowMove = Info.AllowMovement && Stance != UnitStance.Defend;

-The units in this ticket are in ReturnFire, so the pursuit of the enemy is to be expected after being attacked.

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FrameLimiter commented Aug 13, 2018

The tooltip description should be:
"Units will not move or pursue enemies unless attacked"

AutoTarget's AllowMovement: [Desc("It will try to hunt down the enemy if it is not set to defend.")]

allowMove = Info.AllowMovement && Stance != UnitStance.Defend;

-The units in this ticket are in ReturnFire, so the pursuit of the enemy is to be expected after being attacked.

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matjaeck Aug 13, 2018

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Making this a feature renders the stance IMO completely useless as everything that chases dies within seconds when those units get into an engagement.

IMO units should not chase in the return fire stance but it should behave be like when in defend stance (assuming units do not chase in this stance) with the difference that units will only attack when they are attacked.

I have to say that I agree with @dsimmons87 on this and consider the chasing not helpful at all and would vote for removing it. At least remove it from the return fire stance so the stance can be used, the current mechanics only allow to use hold fire and defend - due to the chase you can use attack anything only when you have to clean up enemy bases in an otherwise already won game.

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matjaeck commented Aug 13, 2018

Making this a feature renders the stance IMO completely useless as everything that chases dies within seconds when those units get into an engagement.

IMO units should not chase in the return fire stance but it should behave be like when in defend stance (assuming units do not chase in this stance) with the difference that units will only attack when they are attacked.

I have to say that I agree with @dsimmons87 on this and consider the chasing not helpful at all and would vote for removing it. At least remove it from the return fire stance so the stance can be used, the current mechanics only allow to use hold fire and defend - due to the chase you can use attack anything only when you have to clean up enemy bases in an otherwise already won game.

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dsimmons87 Aug 13, 2018

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Chasing - especially with infantry - doesn't play well with the cell based OpenRA engine, so I'd suggest removing the chase part - at least for infantry.

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dsimmons87 commented Aug 13, 2018

Chasing - especially with infantry - doesn't play well with the cell based OpenRA engine, so I'd suggest removing the chase part - at least for infantry.

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FrameLimiter Aug 13, 2018

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Well it isn't making it a feature as this is how it has always functioned. It's a tooltip typo as it doesn't align with the expected behavior of the stance.

Tooltips describe behavior; whether you like this behavior is a separate issue. You shouldn't leave tooltips bogus in hopes the behavior it's suppose to describe will someday be adjusted to match.

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FrameLimiter commented Aug 13, 2018

Well it isn't making it a feature as this is how it has always functioned. It's a tooltip typo as it doesn't align with the expected behavior of the stance.

Tooltips describe behavior; whether you like this behavior is a separate issue. You shouldn't leave tooltips bogus in hopes the behavior it's suppose to describe will someday be adjusted to match.

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matjaeck Aug 13, 2018

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Then have different expectations - I wouldn't expect or want units to chase enemies when they are in return fire stance, regardless of the tooltip (which I have to admit is what this issue is about. From my perspective, the nature of the return fire stance is closer to the nature of hold fire than anything else. I would expect to use in on units which usually should not attack on their own, but defend themselves - like discovered submarines or stealth tanks. Chasing just doesn't make sense in this context to me, but I can live with another not usable stance.

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matjaeck commented Aug 13, 2018

Then have different expectations - I wouldn't expect or want units to chase enemies when they are in return fire stance, regardless of the tooltip (which I have to admit is what this issue is about. From my perspective, the nature of the return fire stance is closer to the nature of hold fire than anything else. I would expect to use in on units which usually should not attack on their own, but defend themselves - like discovered submarines or stealth tanks. Chasing just doesn't make sense in this context to me, but I can live with another not usable stance.

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