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Infiltrating barracks still gains veterancy on infantry spawning in pillboxes #16242

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AMHOL opened this Issue Feb 25, 2019 · 8 comments

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AMHOL commented Feb 25, 2019

Issue Summary

Infantry spawned inside of a pillbox still gain veterancy from spy infiltration, given that infantry in pillboxes no longer gain experience, this doesn't seem like the desired behaviour, and has always been an overpowered feature IMHO.
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System Information

  • OpenRA Version: playtest-20190209
  • Mod: Red Alert

Steps to reproduce

  1. Infiltrate enemy barracks with a spy
  2. Build a pillbox
  3. Undeploy the infantry from the pillbox, it will show 1 chevron
@GraionDilach

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GraionDilach commented Feb 25, 2019

Veterancy has no effect within the pillboxes anymore, and it would be inconsistent that the rifleman received through a pillbox would not benefit from the free level any trained-from-barracks infantry would.

For reference: building survivors in RA2 also received the free level.

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AMHOL commented Feb 26, 2019

Cool, didn't know that veterancy didn't have an effect in pillboxes, thought that switching out the infantry for vetted infantry still gave the performance boost, good to know.

Closing issue.

@AMHOL AMHOL closed this Feb 26, 2019

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GraionDilach commented Feb 26, 2019

Oh, apparently I mixed it up - infantry in pillboxes can't gain experience but their damage output is still affected by the previous experience they gathered. The logic is implemented to change this, they're just not set up that way.

Pinging @Smittytron - you need to disable all boosts on all infantry with the pillboxcondition to change this.

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matjaeck commented Feb 26, 2019

Voting for reopening this unless someone files a more specific issue with ^.

@pchote pchote reopened this Feb 26, 2019

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Smittytron commented Feb 26, 2019

We nerfed pillboxes heavily by suppressing experience gain, but with the understanding that if you take the time to switch in more veteran riflemen you'll get stronger pillboxes. This is working as intended.

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pchote commented Feb 26, 2019

The question is whether it is balanced for spy infiltration against the barracks to automatically buff newly placed pillboxes in addition to just infantry. We could disable the initial veterancy for the infantry spawned in pillboxes without disabling the buffs when manually swapping a vet infantry in.

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Smittytron commented Feb 26, 2019

IMO the automatic buff is a good perk to encourage more spy use. It's still nothing like a fully vetted rifle in a pillbox.

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matjaeck commented Feb 26, 2019

The question is whether it is balanced for spy infiltration against the barracks to automatically buff newly placed pillboxes in addition to just infantry.

IMO infiltrating barracks should grant better infantry but have no effect to base defences.

We could disable the initial veterancy for the infantry spawned in pillboxes without disabling the buffs when manually swapping a vet infantry in.

IMO the automatic buff is a good perk to encourage more spy use. It's still nothing like a fully vetted rifle in a pillbox.

It is from my perspective conceptually inconsistent though: If you take the perspective that the pillbox is as good as the rifle inside it and apply the concept that rifles become better the more they kill, then rifles in pillboxes should rank up, maintain their (initial) rank boosts in a pillbox, and increase the pillboxes effectiveness in return.

The concept I prefer is that pillboxes are entities with their own immutable properties (other defences can not rank up) and rifles only "enable" them.

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