reveal shroud a little better #2162

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psydev opened this Issue May 22, 2012 · 11 comments

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psydev commented May 22, 2012

I think units could reveal shroud a bit better.
In this screenshot, as the buggy explores, he does not see ahead of him the full 2 squares sight range that he should. His detection circle is set to 2, and his RevealsShroud: is set to 2. http://i.imgur.com/cAOqb.jpg
I believe the original behaviour in C&C was that if your sight range == 2, then you can always see 2 full squares around you. OpenRA seems different. Screenshot of original game: http://i.imgur.com/FYDqI.jpg

Another pic. http://i.imgur.com/IMo1X.jpg. I noticed the range circle goes half way into the 2nd square, not fully around it.

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psydev May 27, 2012

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Comparison between C&C Gold and OpenRA shroud reveal: http://i.imgur.com/NhBlC.jpg

In C&C Gold, it reveals the entire tile (which is 2 tiles away) when the buggy's sight range is 2.

In OpenRA, the sight radius is 1.5 instead.

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psydev commented May 27, 2012

Comparison between C&C Gold and OpenRA shroud reveal: http://i.imgur.com/NhBlC.jpg

In C&C Gold, it reveals the entire tile (which is 2 tiles away) when the buggy's sight range is 2.

In OpenRA, the sight radius is 1.5 instead.

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Mailaender Dec 22, 2012

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Can't reproduce this. http://imgur.com/5HsXD looks normal and reveals the next cell as soon as it leaves the last one.

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Mailaender commented Dec 22, 2012

Can't reproduce this. http://imgur.com/5HsXD looks normal and reveals the next cell as soon as it leaves the last one.

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psydev Feb 9, 2013

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Wow, that is peculiar. Could it just be me?

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psydev commented Feb 9, 2013

Wow, that is peculiar. Could it just be me?

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Mailaender Feb 13, 2013

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The bottom line is you want shroud to be revealed in squares instead of circles and the range should be extended by one tile? What is the benefit of it?

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Mailaender commented Feb 13, 2013

The bottom line is you want shroud to be revealed in squares instead of circles and the range should be extended by one tile? What is the benefit of it?

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psydev Feb 14, 2013

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The benefit of revealing in squares instead of circles is that this is the method that original C&C uses. (see: http://i.imgur.com/FYDqI.jpg). Right now there are some issues with how fog is revealed:

Issue #1: If your range==1, then you should actually see then you should see the entire tile adjacent to you. Right now, you can barely see anything: (Comparison of infantry sight ranges) http://i.imgur.com/AOnsdpi.jpg
When range==1, you cannot much of the tile next to you. You cannot see in front of you fully, and you cannot see diagonally at all. I think you should be able to see all the tiles.
In C&C Classic, default infantry range is 1. To emulate this in OpenRA, I have to increase their sight range to 3, so that the player can see all of the adjacent tiles which are 1 space away.
You may notice that shroud seems to be revealed slightly differently than fog (units can see further into shroud than fog).

Issue #2. There is an imperfection in how fog is displayed in OpenRA. When exploring, the tiles space in front of your unit are not revealed at the proper range, but the tiles behind the unit reveals at the proper range. (http://i.imgur.com/NhBlC.jpg).
Screenshot: (these vehicles are not moving) http://i.imgur.com/8nrpw09.jpg . Machinegun Piffs are shown for reference (weapon range is 3). If your sight range==3, then when you enter a new tile, you do not see the full 3 tiles away. You can only see 3 tiles away in back of you.
(The reason the two humvee pictures look different is that they just came from the tile in back of them. Fog is not revealed differently based simply on the direction they're facing).

Possible solution: if unit's shroud reveal range==3, then the game should reveal the entire tile that is 3 spaces away, instead of just part of it. That would probably eliminate the other problem #2 of not seeing in front properly.

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psydev commented Feb 14, 2013

The benefit of revealing in squares instead of circles is that this is the method that original C&C uses. (see: http://i.imgur.com/FYDqI.jpg). Right now there are some issues with how fog is revealed:

Issue #1: If your range==1, then you should actually see then you should see the entire tile adjacent to you. Right now, you can barely see anything: (Comparison of infantry sight ranges) http://i.imgur.com/AOnsdpi.jpg
When range==1, you cannot much of the tile next to you. You cannot see in front of you fully, and you cannot see diagonally at all. I think you should be able to see all the tiles.
In C&C Classic, default infantry range is 1. To emulate this in OpenRA, I have to increase their sight range to 3, so that the player can see all of the adjacent tiles which are 1 space away.
You may notice that shroud seems to be revealed slightly differently than fog (units can see further into shroud than fog).

Issue #2. There is an imperfection in how fog is displayed in OpenRA. When exploring, the tiles space in front of your unit are not revealed at the proper range, but the tiles behind the unit reveals at the proper range. (http://i.imgur.com/NhBlC.jpg).
Screenshot: (these vehicles are not moving) http://i.imgur.com/8nrpw09.jpg . Machinegun Piffs are shown for reference (weapon range is 3). If your sight range==3, then when you enter a new tile, you do not see the full 3 tiles away. You can only see 3 tiles away in back of you.
(The reason the two humvee pictures look different is that they just came from the tile in back of them. Fog is not revealed differently based simply on the direction they're facing).

Possible solution: if unit's shroud reveal range==3, then the game should reveal the entire tile that is 3 spaces away, instead of just part of it. That would probably eliminate the other problem #2 of not seeing in front properly.

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psydev Feb 15, 2013

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I didn't notice a difference between the two versions.

But I think I was wrong: there is no problem with how OpenRA reveals shroud. The problem is simply that OpenRA reveal fog at -1 range for units, while (most) buildings reveal their RevealsShroud range properly.
See example here: http://i.imgur.com/v5T6LF9.jpg
As you can see, the Construction Yard displays its range (5) properly. The MCV (range 4) does not see its full range. (The ConYard seems to see a bit further than its circle, while the MCV does not see as far as its circle). Below in the image, there is a Rocket Bike for reference. Its sight range is 3, while its weapon range is 2 (yellow circle, for reference). It seems as though its range were 2, but that otherwise the fog/shroud is revealed properly.

In my earlier post, the reason the humvee could see in the back is simply that the game lets you see extra tiles behind you (if you just came from that direction). I think the problem is simply that the range is effectively -1 of what it should be.

While buildings seem to reveal shroud properly, not all buildings render range properly. All of the defensive buildings and the silo seem to not get the full range. Examples:
Construction Yard (for comparison): http://i.imgur.com/qV6UYgn.jpg
Guard Tower: http://i.imgur.com/prccaAT.jpg
Advanced Guard Tower: http://i.imgur.com/eJh3Vba.jpg
Silo: http://i.imgur.com/gitPcEq.jpg
SAM site: http://i.imgur.com/vmJnnUN.jpg

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psydev commented Feb 15, 2013

I didn't notice a difference between the two versions.

But I think I was wrong: there is no problem with how OpenRA reveals shroud. The problem is simply that OpenRA reveal fog at -1 range for units, while (most) buildings reveal their RevealsShroud range properly.
See example here: http://i.imgur.com/v5T6LF9.jpg
As you can see, the Construction Yard displays its range (5) properly. The MCV (range 4) does not see its full range. (The ConYard seems to see a bit further than its circle, while the MCV does not see as far as its circle). Below in the image, there is a Rocket Bike for reference. Its sight range is 3, while its weapon range is 2 (yellow circle, for reference). It seems as though its range were 2, but that otherwise the fog/shroud is revealed properly.

In my earlier post, the reason the humvee could see in the back is simply that the game lets you see extra tiles behind you (if you just came from that direction). I think the problem is simply that the range is effectively -1 of what it should be.

While buildings seem to reveal shroud properly, not all buildings render range properly. All of the defensive buildings and the silo seem to not get the full range. Examples:
Construction Yard (for comparison): http://i.imgur.com/qV6UYgn.jpg
Guard Tower: http://i.imgur.com/prccaAT.jpg
Advanced Guard Tower: http://i.imgur.com/eJh3Vba.jpg
Silo: http://i.imgur.com/gitPcEq.jpg
SAM site: http://i.imgur.com/vmJnnUN.jpg

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chrisforbes Feb 15, 2013

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Buildings reveal their full sight range from every cell in their footprint
-- so they end up being a little bigger than a single-cell actor.

On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:13 PM, psydev notifications@github.com wrote:

I didn't notice a difference between the two versions.

But I think I was wrong: there is no problem with how OpenRA reveals
shroud. The problem is simply that OpenRA reveal fog at -1 range for units,
while (most) buildings reveal their RevealsShroud range properly.
See example here: http://i.imgur.com/v5T6LF9.jpg
As you can see, the Construction Yard displays its range (5) properly. The
MCV (range 4) does not see its full range. (The ConYard seems to see a bit
further than its circle, while the MCV does not see as far as its circle).
Below in the image, there is a Rocket Bike for reference. Its sight range
is 3, while its weapon range is 2 (yellow circle, for reference). It seems
as though its range were 2, but that otherwise the fog/shroud is revealed
properly.

In my earlier post, the reason the humvee could see in the back is simply
that the game lets you see extra tiles behind you (if you just came from
that direction). I think the problem is simply that the range is
effectively -1 of what it should be.

While buildings seem to reveal shroud properly, not all buildings render
range properly. All of the defensive buildings and the silo seem to not get
the full range. Examples:
Construction Yard (for comparison): http://i.imgur.com/qV6UYgn.jpg
Guard Tower: http://i.imgur.com/prccaAT.jpg
Advanced Guard Tower: http://i.imgur.com/eJh3Vba.jpg
Silo: http://i.imgur.com/gitPcEq.jpg
SAM site: http://i.imgur.com/vmJnnUN.jpg


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/2162#issuecomment-13595000.

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chrisforbes commented Feb 15, 2013

Buildings reveal their full sight range from every cell in their footprint
-- so they end up being a little bigger than a single-cell actor.

On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:13 PM, psydev notifications@github.com wrote:

I didn't notice a difference between the two versions.

But I think I was wrong: there is no problem with how OpenRA reveals
shroud. The problem is simply that OpenRA reveal fog at -1 range for units,
while (most) buildings reveal their RevealsShroud range properly.
See example here: http://i.imgur.com/v5T6LF9.jpg
As you can see, the Construction Yard displays its range (5) properly. The
MCV (range 4) does not see its full range. (The ConYard seems to see a bit
further than its circle, while the MCV does not see as far as its circle).
Below in the image, there is a Rocket Bike for reference. Its sight range
is 3, while its weapon range is 2 (yellow circle, for reference). It seems
as though its range were 2, but that otherwise the fog/shroud is revealed
properly.

In my earlier post, the reason the humvee could see in the back is simply
that the game lets you see extra tiles behind you (if you just came from
that direction). I think the problem is simply that the range is
effectively -1 of what it should be.

While buildings seem to reveal shroud properly, not all buildings render
range properly. All of the defensive buildings and the silo seem to not get
the full range. Examples:
Construction Yard (for comparison): http://i.imgur.com/qV6UYgn.jpg
Guard Tower: http://i.imgur.com/prccaAT.jpg
Advanced Guard Tower: http://i.imgur.com/eJh3Vba.jpg
Silo: http://i.imgur.com/gitPcEq.jpg
SAM site: http://i.imgur.com/vmJnnUN.jpg


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/issues/2162#issuecomment-13595000.

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chovynz Mar 15, 2013

Is range and visibility linked? Can we separate them?

chovynz commented Mar 15, 2013

Is range and visibility linked? Can we separate them?

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Mailaender Mar 15, 2013

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Only in the way that units won't auto-target in the dark. Shroud reveal and weapon range are already separate.

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Mailaender commented Mar 15, 2013

Only in the way that units won't auto-target in the dark. Shroud reveal and weapon range are already separate.

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pchote Dec 11, 2013

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This is caused by us using the RA shroud artwork in C&C. Fixed by #4287.

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pchote commented Dec 11, 2013

This is caused by us using the RA shroud artwork in C&C. Fixed by #4287.

@Mailaender Mailaender closed this in #4287 Dec 11, 2013

pchote added a commit that referenced this issue Dec 11, 2013

New shroud renderer. Fixes #2162. Fixes #3024. Fixes #4034.
Uses the original tile sprites in C&C and D2K and uses a smoother transition in all mods.
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