Game Options #2197

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Generalcamo opened this Issue Jun 6, 2012 · 35 comments

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@Generalcamo
Contributor

New Game Options should be implemented. They are present in many games, even those outside the C&C Realm. Here are a few things that I was thinking of:

  • Crates: These should be an option, while you could get a nuke in your face, you could also get a free nuclear missile.
  • Starting Units: This is obvious. Many C&C games have this option.
  • Major Superweapons: Nukes are disabled/enabled. Also disables nuke crates
  • Minor Superweapons: Chronosphere and iron curtain is disabled/enabled. Also disables Parabombs crate
  • Starting Cash: Many Games have this option, please add it.
Owner

Dune 2000 also has a sandworms: on/off button.

Should, indeed, be implimented.
And Minor Superweapons should possibly include paratroopers.

Contributor
kyrreso commented Jul 16, 2012

+1., and some other cheats.. Or just advanced settings so those with dedicated can set up whatever they want on and off. Like cheats....

Owner

There's a reason we haven't implemented these. It's not an oversight, it's a deliberate choice to have one game to balance, not however many combinations of options.

Contributor
kyrreso commented Jul 22, 2012

No need to balance options like "men only", "no air", etc..

You don't have to balance it. It's the player's choice to change things, thus it's the player's choice to make sure it's balanced. That, and a change to both sides doesn't make a difference anyways.
+5000 cash to player 1, player 2, player 3, etc. That's equal.
No crates for anyone is equal.
No superweapons for anyone is equal, too, since I believe the superweapons are equal as is.

Owner

"No superweapons" is very much not equal in C&C. The Nuke and Ion Cannon abilities are very different, and are balanced with other elements, not directly against each other.

Same with minor superweapons, or "no air", or "infantry only".

I thought the point of OpenRA was to provide a moddable environment, as well as revive RA.
You can at least implement the availability for its use with other mods, and not implement it in the C&C and RA mods provided automatically.

Owner

If you want to do this in a mod, there is nothing to stop you doing that.

Yeah, there is: I don't know how. xD
But seriously, there's no easy gateway into doing so that I've found.

Owner

Custom rules -- including starting cash, crate behavior, superweapons,
techtree restrictions -- are easily configurable at the map or mod
level. In a map's map.yaml file, anything inside the Rules: block
overrides the mod rules.
For an example, try taking apart one of the Dropzone or Bomber John
maps -- the minigame is implemented entirely as custom rules.

... I know that you can do it with maps, and I know HOW to do it with maps; however, this is talking about a general feature for ANY map. (And not for a mod that you modify every time you want a small change) So that anyone can do it without having to download a mod/map specific to a setting.

Owner

The rough direction, if you wanted to implement this would be:

  • Add a custom blob of data to the LobbyInfo
  • Add some UI to your LobbyLogic equivalent to display and manipulate it
  • Do something (perhaps converting to a yaml tree and overlaying on
    the rules, same as map rules?) to actually apply the changes

The issue is suggesting that be done and be implemented into the game. But seeing as you're all worried about balancing being a problem for, quite frankly, just you developers, and not freedom of the players, just the framework for people who don't know anything about all this fancy programming stuff would suffice to solve this issue.

Oh, but the sandworm thing should totally be added to Dune after the framework is made because all they do is cause additional suffering x] It'd act as a cheat for "murder all sandworms instantly" without "toggling cheats"

Owner

We could solve sandworms differently. Mappers could just remove the thumper infantry or if we implement sandworm spawn points like legacy d2k the mapper could not place them or place them far away from the player spawns and fenced into rocks. But the worm is non-functional anyway at the moment #2245.

Owner

Worm spawnpoints seems like a sensible way to go.

Contributor
psydev commented Jul 24, 2012

I asked for these options mostly for CNC Classic.
(I was suggesting we make classic versions of these so that the community that still plays the original game would migrate to OpenRA). I'm not sure if they would prefer fog or not, so I thought I would allow both options for C&C Classic or RA Classic (if anyone decides to make it at some point).

The options would be:

  • Fog of war, but map starts out explored
  • No fog of war, but map starts out as black shroud
  • Poss. 3rd option: "shroud slowly regrows" (I'm not sure if anyone actually uses this)

I actually agree with Chrisf that we should try to have a minimum of variety. I retract my request for my bottom 3 original suggestions. I still think a few options would be OK.

  • Classic C&C and RA had the options to start out with units. If you think the Classic projects are a worthwhile idea, then this is a reasonable feature.
  • I think it's reasonable to give the option to disable crates that contain superweapons (nukes, ions, airstrikes?)
  • Classic had the option to disable crates
  • (Classic had the option to change starting money but I don't think this matters)
Contributor

Crates: This must be an option. This can quickly sway games in favor of the player who finds three crates with money. While there is also a chance of that player getting 3 nuclear explosions, he could have also potentially gotten three free parabombs, or some nuclear missiles. This isn't a good idea if tournament matches were to be setup. Please make this an option.

Starting units, this already is customizable to each map. What I was thinking of was the options of setting this so that you have two sets. Say:
map.yaml
startingunits: mcv, e1, e1, dog
startingunitsoptional: tank, tank, tank

Starting cash/Superweapons: I see your point

Contributor
kyrreso commented Jul 31, 2012

The problems are when teams are unbalanced. The superweapons change the game. If one from each team agrees on the settings it should be turned off. Or mines or engies, the most hatet things for many.....

Or with less time playing, some more starting cash would make the game goes faster, og a possibilities for maps with no ore. This will help n00bs having a hard time micro their ore, and building ore ref at a good spot.

But at least the lobby could analyse and tell some changes on the game, like starting cash. Even with no possibilities it could list that all players start with more/less cash, and that crate is turned off or on.. Stuff like that...

Contributor
kyrreso commented Aug 4, 2012

One more option that would be equal: turn off v2 and artys..

Another option could be between traditional build queues and RA3/C&C3 build queues, whereas building queues would be local to a factory rather than a global queue (as per request here http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=15978 )

Owner

Selecting between the two different queue models can already be done
by the mod author. Use ClassicProductionQueue on the Player actor for
the classic style; use ProductionQueue on the individual buildings for
the modern style.

We mean as an option in the game start menu. Read the forum post for the full proposition. I'm merely a messenger since no one else posted here about it. (x

Contributor

Things that should be implemented:

Superweapons (RA only): Turns off Nukes. Chronosphere and Iron Curtain are still buildable.

Alternatively, limit superweapons.

Crates: A must have due to critical balance issues that can occur.

Game Mode Selector: Should be implemented for modders. I can see interesting things with this. Capture the Flag Anyone?

Starting Units: This gives off a classic C&C vibe. Actual starting units should be determined by map maker.

Owner

See https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki/Mapping on how to remove crates (for tournament maps), add starting units, remove technology, reveal the whole map and change starting cash.

@Mailaender Mailaender closed this Dec 12, 2012
Contributor
psydev commented Dec 12, 2012

Mailaender: In the option you gave, when you reveal the whole map, does it it still keep fog of war, or can you always see the map?

I really think that having the map pre-explored should be the default setting for OpenRA, and if a player wants, a custom map can start the map shrouded (in black). I don't see any benefit in gameplay or fun to having to re-explore the map every game. And if the map is black, it gives less experienced players a disadvantage if they don't know the map as well as someone who has played it many times. All modern RTSes use fog instead of black shroud. C&C/RA's use of shroud is an old-fashioned style that is not the best and is out of date. I think we should just use fog of war and no shroud by default.

Owner

You might be able to achieve this with your map.yaml by adding an instant GPS satelitte powerup and removing the GPS dot from defaults. Changing the default map exploration behaivor in multiplayer is an interesting thought, but another issue.

Owner

I added a trait to easily enable/disable fog of war in pull request #2614 as you are not the first one to request that.

Owner

We now have a [x] Allow Crates button since playtest-20130304.

Owner

Starting units and map reveal settings were added to a proprietary OpenRA fork years ago by @SNce (https://vimeo.com/36438507) https://github.com/TM-PD/FirstDance/blob/master/OpenRA.Mods.RA/Widgets/Delegates/MapSettingsDelegate.cs requires cleanup and adaption on the current code base.

@Mailaender Mailaender reopened this Mar 20, 2013
Owner

@pchote added starting units for C&C in #3550.

Owner

We now have starting cash, too.

@Mailaender Mailaender closed this Aug 18, 2013
This was referenced Mar 24, 2014
Member
penev92 commented Dec 12, 2014

Not sure if this is the place, but I'll just leave this here:

  • Dune 2000 will need a lobby option for worms once they get merged
  • "No super weapons" is a very important option, especially in comp-stomps (if you are playing 2v6 it's not fun when they start bringing out the nukes...)
Owner

You may need to explore other ways to keep the AI defenseless probably with custom map rules. See also #4957 (comment) on that matter.

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