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[RA] Upgrade observer/replay interface features. #5121

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SoScared opened this issue Apr 17, 2014 · 54 comments · Fixed by #16406

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@SoScared
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commented Apr 17, 2014

EDIT: Narrowing the aim down to the RA mod exclusively. If one day successful it could leak on to the other mods. Would be worth having for the current ORA flagship.

I'd love to see a re-design of the statistics bar as suggested in #4716 for all default mods (TD, RA & D2K) with hotkeys bound to each tab.

Due to the long discussion at #4716 and recent interest I'll clarify the goals on this issue (details below) for anyone wanting to take a stab at it.

@SoScared SoScared changed the title Add observer/replay interface features to TD, RA & D2K (adding bounties) Add observer/replay interface features to TD, RA & D2K (adding bounties) [$40] Apr 17, 2014

@SoScared SoScared added the bounty label Apr 17, 2014

@SoScared SoScared changed the title Add observer/replay interface features to TD, RA & D2K (adding bounties) [$40] Add observer/replay interface features to TD, RA & D2K [$40] Apr 17, 2014

@Mailaender Mailaender added the feature label Apr 17, 2014

@orabot orabot changed the title Add observer/replay interface features to TD, RA & D2K [$40] Add observer/replay interface features to TD, RA & D2K [$70] Jul 30, 2015

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commented Jul 30, 2015

It's been a good year. Adding bounty to my favourite feature request. Good hunting!

@orabot orabot changed the title Add observer/replay interface features to TD, RA & D2K [$70] Add observer/replay interface features to TD, RA & D2K [$110] Sep 12, 2015

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commented Oct 3, 2015

Due to the long discussion at #4716 and more attention on the subject (more bounties!) I just want to clarify the goals of this issue for anyone wanting to take a stab at it:

Newly opened discussion at: http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=18631

Make the interface resemble some of the mockups from #4716 with information popping up at the top right of the screen, and allow access to the different tabs (production, economy etc.) with hotkeys. Also, when you access the statistics the game should remember which tab type you accessed the last time.

The initial mockups looks the most interesting:

RiderRockon's production tab (coloured progress bars, nice!):
68747470733a2f2f662e636c6f75642e6769746875622e636f6d2f6173736574732f363639323136372f323234303636372f34316463643862632d396361322d313165332d383234382d3436636434643166656664392e6a7067
partof's production tab
68747470733a2f2f662e636c6f75642e6769746875622e636f6d2f6173736574732f3434323633302f323336373236312f63616136643961632d613734652d313165332d386133662d3162633732633765393962662e706e67

Mailaender's basic (control) and eco tab:
68747470733a2f2f662e636c6f75642e6769746875622e636f6d2f6173736574732f3735363636392f323336353230392f64316333663133652d613662332d313165332d393566622d6439313738346432633335662e706e67
68747470733a2f2f662e636c6f75642e6769746875622e636f6d2f6173736574732f3735363636392f323336353230322f37363266363530362d613662332d313165332d386632302d6335616263353831373936632e706e67

The suggested production tab above is the meat of the matter. It just looks so good. Matches with more than 8 players might make the prod.tab a bit huge, but what of it. 10-player games aren't those you normally follow close on production anyways. The other tabs will do fine as long as they look pretty and with transparent background as suggested in some of the above mockups.

@SoScared SoScared changed the title Add observer/replay interface features to TD, RA & D2K [$110] Upgrade observer/replay interface features for TD, RA & D2K [$110] Oct 3, 2015

@penev92 penev92 self-assigned this Oct 5, 2015

@orabot orabot changed the title Upgrade observer/replay interface features for TD, RA & D2K [$110] Upgrade observer/replay interface features for TD, RA & D2K [$125] Oct 6, 2015

@orabot orabot changed the title Upgrade observer/replay interface features for TD, RA & D2K [$125] Upgrade observer/replay interface features for TD, RA & D2K [$175] Oct 10, 2015

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commented Oct 23, 2015

So I've been carefully studying the extensive production capabilities in Tiberian Dawn in a series of long, heavy macro team-games. The number of unique buildings/units produced per player at any given time rarely exceeds 10 and it seems to never pass 13 in any match. Tiberian Dawn has the potential of producing up to 32 unique buildings/units (Nod) at a time which would require 9 MCV's 5 Barracks, 9 Airstrips, 2 Helipads, all producing one unique item simultaneously. That just won't happen.

I've looked into the same issue for Starcraft 2, which has been the spark of inspiration for this issue. The same principle applies there. Despite having the capability to producing over 45 (!) unique buildings/units/upgrades (terran) simultaneously, the production tab never get's out of hand, even in long macro games between in professionals in leagues and tournaments.

Mockup of a production tab with 15 (80% sized) slots on 1280x720p resolution. Mockup is from D2K but used as an example for Tiberian Dawn. Each slot represents a unique unit/building:

80percent720_15

15 (80% sized) slots on 1920x1080p resolution:

80percent_15

Tiberian Dawn needs only a number indicator in it's slots (as in Starcraft 2) as seen in the above mockup for buildings/units produced at quantities more than 1.

@pchote

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commented Oct 23, 2015

If the same item is being built from multiple factory and we show a "2" overlay, do we pick the one with the least remaining time for the clock?

@SoScared

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commented Oct 23, 2015

That would be preferable. At least that's what I'm used to with SC2.

@GraionDilach

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commented Oct 23, 2015

Overlapping sounds bad. You can't use observing then for AI debugging because some mods might want to debug factory output - modders might want to use factories with overlapping output (think Warzone2100 where factory level decided the bodies the factory can produce) because the order gets really messy.

An option could be overlapping clocks with each other - since all of our clocks are transparent, more of them could be placed on top of each other while all could be still tracked.

@penev92

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commented Oct 23, 2015

Modders are free to make their own UI. Like I said a couple of days ago - the UI is the mod's responsibility, and that includes the observer UI.

I don't expect stacking the sprites to look good at all.

@orabot orabot changed the title Upgrade observer/replay interface features for TD, RA & D2K [$175] Upgrade observer/replay interface features for TD, RA & D2K [$280] Nov 21, 2015

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commented Feb 12, 2016

https://youtu.be/0IDixZguIP0 shows a nice live mockup.

@SoScared

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commented Aug 7, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILd0DqW7qqQ&t=4m40s a more closely resembling mockup.

@Mailaender Mailaender removed the Bounty label Nov 10, 2016

@Mailaender Mailaender changed the title Upgrade observer/replay interface features for TD, RA & D2K [$280] Upgrade observer/replay interface features for TD, RA & D2K Nov 10, 2016

@Mailaender Mailaender added the UI label Nov 10, 2016

@SoScared SoScared changed the title Upgrade observer/replay interface features for TD, RA & D2K [RA] Upgrade observer/replay interface features. Mar 1, 2017

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commented Mar 24, 2017

So I've been carefully studying the extensive production capabilities in Tiberian Dawn in a series of long, heavy macro team-games. The number of unique buildings/units produced per player at any given time rarely exceeds 10 and it seems to never pass 13 in any match.

Quoting comment #5121 (comment)

There's a chance different mods might need more custom designs regarding the length of the icon production background.

@rob-v

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commented Mar 24, 2017

I did TD Production column wider than others as it was overlapping in my test. This problem was then also with current window or didn't happen due to small icons?
What do you propose - make panel wider, icons small, support powers in another tab,...?
@MustaphaTR I didn't change it, it should be like in current Statistics window, but I have to check it

@SoScared

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commented Mar 24, 2017

I for one would rather see the current design kept and look towards other solutions to the overlap problems.

@MustaphaTR

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commented Mar 24, 2017

I know, i remember it being like that on current release too, but as i said i don't think it should be like that. I would be happy if you can fix that too when you are in it. I think the issue is ClassicProductionQueue:'s order under Player: actor.

@SoScared

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commented Mar 24, 2017

How advanced would it be to stack similar production as mentioned in #5121 (comment) ?

@GraionDilach

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commented Mar 24, 2017

I would drop/decrease the upscaling of the cameos and place the support powers to a second row.

Stacking is a terrible idea.

@rob-v

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commented Mar 24, 2017

@GraionDilach You could be right, but in general I don't want to do many 'major' UI design changes, as this isn't routine for me so I prefer to finish it and after merge we'll see. It seems simpler to do the stacking as proposed by @SoScared - to display each unit type once (like in other mods) with number.
@MustaphaTR Ok, I'll unify it.

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commented Mar 24, 2017

You already did a 'major' UI change by upsizing the cameos. I also don't see how a second line is harder than implementing stacking. Mind you that @SoScared isn't a coder. Stacking will mess because the clock animation is either based on the shadow (TD) either based on some arbitratry alpha values (TS onwards) and you can't come up with a general rule to work with both.

@rob-v

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commented Mar 24, 2017

This stacking is needed only for TD, no? There is already time 00:03, so it can be the same color.

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commented Mar 24, 2017

@GraionDilach I'm not a coder but using second rows would IMO look unattractive.

rob-v added a commit to rob-v/OpenRA that referenced this issue Mar 25, 2017
rob-v added a commit to rob-v/OpenRA that referenced this issue Mar 25, 2017
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commented Mar 25, 2017

PR #13023

rob-v added a commit to rob-v/OpenRA that referenced this issue Mar 25, 2017
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rob-v added a commit to rob-v/OpenRA that referenced this issue Mar 26, 2017
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rob-v added a commit to rob-v/OpenRA that referenced this issue Mar 26, 2017
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commented Nov 12, 2017

Any point on keeping this issue open? Seem like the full brunt of this issue hit #13023 and with it set the course for any future development with the feature.

@penev92

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commented Nov 13, 2017

That PR is closed but not finished, so IMO this should stay open until resolved.
It's not like it was given a #WONTFIX.

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commented Nov 13, 2017

I see #13023 on the future milestone so if ever finished it starts there. Also due to the ambivalent feature development the past 3,5 years I've requested the bounty refund on this issue but from what I'm told it I can only request my own share unless this issue is closed. The other fund backers were in on it to increase the pool.

penev92 added a commit to penev92/OpenRA that referenced this issue Dec 9, 2017
@anjew175

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commented Mar 23, 2018

The scope of this specific issue has been limited to just Red Alert. So I'm curious what is needed to be changed or added to make this work.

I understand that it would be preferable to add a comprehensive and versatile UI that adapts across all mods however, as evident in the discussion, this is an issue with the differences in mods. Perhaps, a catch-all spectator UI is not the right direction, instead mods should embrace more appropriate designs.

@pchote

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commented Mar 23, 2018

@penev92 was able to resolve those problems and prototype a nicer looking UI without too much trouble, and made a start on the code quality issues. Unfortunately his own time constraints meant that he was not able to complete that.

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commented Mar 23, 2018

Also, I can't speak for the others but i'm certainly not happy with the idea of having to maintain multiple sets of observer code that are in different states of disrepair.

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