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Reduce Ornithopter damage #13465

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merged 1 commit into from Jun 24, 2017

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reaperrr commented Jun 6, 2017

Reduces base damage from 1000 to 750, and re-increases the delay between bombs, making first and last bomb usually miss the target.

Reduce Ornithopter damage vs buildings
Especially larger ones.

@reaperrr reaperrr added this to the Playtest featuring updated HitShapes milestone Jun 6, 2017

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reaperrr Jun 6, 2017

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Pinging @MustaphaTR for review.

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reaperrr commented Jun 6, 2017

Pinging @MustaphaTR for review.

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Still too powerful vs buildings compared to release, it kills everthing except CYard, Barracks, Palace and 1x1 buildings with one shot in this PR, while it couldn't even kill a Wind Trap in release.

And less powerful vs units now, even light infantries survive from them.

I think for a better balance, we may need to play with Versus: values.

Edit: I tested some values, but later realised some vehicles use wood, and some structures use light armor, which isn't helping us in this situation.

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MustaphaTR commented Jun 7, 2017

Still too powerful vs buildings compared to release, it kills everthing except CYard, Barracks, Palace and 1x1 buildings with one shot in this PR, while it couldn't even kill a Wind Trap in release.

And less powerful vs units now, even light infantries survive from them.

I think for a better balance, we may need to play with Versus: values.

Edit: I tested some values, but later realised some vehicles use wood, and some structures use light armor, which isn't helping us in this situation.

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Couldn't you add a second layer of armor to buildings and then decrease the damage through that? That would leave the balance unaffected on the rest.

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GraionDilach commented Jun 7, 2017

Couldn't you add a second layer of armor to buildings and then decrease the damage through that? That would leave the balance unaffected on the rest.

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Our new hitshape setup now matches the original game, so shouldn't it be sufficient to change the damage/versus/drop rate to match the original values?

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pchote commented Jun 7, 2017

Our new hitshape setup now matches the original game, so shouldn't it be sufficient to change the damage/versus/drop rate to match the original values?

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Our new hitshape setup now matches the original game, so shouldn't it be sufficient to change the damage/versus/drop rate to match the original values?

Original Ornithopters didn't work like how we implemented them here. They were in a line (not V shape) and did a 3 pass, not 1 in original. Also were targetable by AA. Of course recreating the original behaviour would be better. But it would require code changes, not just .yaml.

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MustaphaTR commented Jun 7, 2017

Our new hitshape setup now matches the original game, so shouldn't it be sufficient to change the damage/versus/drop rate to match the original values?

Original Ornithopters didn't work like how we implemented them here. They were in a line (not V shape) and did a 3 pass, not 1 in original. Also were targetable by AA. Of course recreating the original behaviour would be better. But it would require code changes, not just .yaml.

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Original Ornithopters didn't work like how we implemented them here. They were in a line (not V shape) and did a 3 pass, not 1 in original. Also were targetable by AA. Of course recreating the original behaviour would be better. But it would require code changes, not just .yaml.

For the record, I knew that, but didn't feel like opening the can of worms of refactoring airstrikes now.
In my opinion we should just aim for some acceptable quick fix before the playtest and then try to fix the airstrike properly for next release, which should be a few months away.

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reaperrr commented Jun 7, 2017

Original Ornithopters didn't work like how we implemented them here. They were in a line (not V shape) and did a 3 pass, not 1 in original. Also were targetable by AA. Of course recreating the original behaviour would be better. But it would require code changes, not just .yaml.

For the record, I knew that, but didn't feel like opening the can of worms of refactoring airstrikes now.
In my opinion we should just aim for some acceptable quick fix before the playtest and then try to fix the airstrike properly for next release, which should be a few months away.

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@MustaphaTR: sure, but that just impacts on where the bombs land. You shouldn't need to adjust per-building armor types or versus to compensate for that.

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pchote commented Jun 7, 2017

@MustaphaTR: sure, but that just impacts on where the bombs land. You shouldn't need to adjust per-building armor types or versus to compensate for that.

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I have a working airstirke code already AFAIK though, without the TD bombs hack and without the 1:1 Lua interfaces.

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GraionDilach commented Jun 7, 2017

I have a working airstirke code already AFAIK though, without the TD bombs hack and without the 1:1 Lua interfaces.

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Works for now, I guess. 👍

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abcdefg30 commented Jun 14, 2017

Works for now, I guess. 👍

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Fwiw, I'm also a bit hesistant to further reduce damage for now because I think it would become too weak compared to Death Hand and Saboteurs.

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reaperrr commented Jun 18, 2017

Fwiw, I'm also a bit hesistant to further reduce damage for now because I think it would become too weak compared to Death Hand and Saboteurs.

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MustaphaTR Jun 23, 2017

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Instead of trying to reduce the damage even more, we can nerf them by making them targetable. They were targetable in original game anyway.

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MustaphaTR commented Jun 23, 2017

Instead of trying to reduce the damage even more, we can nerf them by making them targetable. They were targetable in original game anyway.

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pchote approved these changes Jun 24, 2017

Looks reasonable to me. We can tweak further if needed after the playtest.

@pchote pchote merged commit 522a29f into OpenRA:bleed Jun 24, 2017

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@reaperrr reaperrr deleted the reaperrr:fix-d2k-balance branch Jul 23, 2017

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