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RA Balance changes (December 2017) #14471

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merged 1 commit into from Dec 5, 2017

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@Smittytron
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Smittytron commented Dec 3, 2017

Light Tank damage vs wood increased by 10%. Reload delay reduced from 22 to 21.
The goal here is to allow the light tank to fill a raider role, meaning with the extra damage, teams of light tanks will be more effective at picking off buildings and harvesters away from the enemy army.

Minimum range of Artillery and V2 Rocket Launcher increased by 2 cells (5c0).
The general counter to siege weapons in RTS games is to quickly close the distance and destroy them from point blank range. The low minimum distance in this game hurts that conventional wisdom, and the fast moving units like flak trucks and light tanks are often one-shotted by the units they are supposed to counter. Extra minimum range will make closing on siege weapons more viable and rewarding.

Grenadier explosion changed to small explosion. Explode chance now 100%.
The grenadier explosion is comically large, and leads several players to not use gren play because of the shutdown potential. A concern was that removing the chain explosion might make grens too hard to stop early, but testing has revealed that to not be the case.

Pillbox and Camo Pillbox use 20 power, up from 15.
Static defense spam remains a concern for general gameplay. This is a small change aimed at bringing late game pillboxes in line with flame towers in terms of how many a player is able to build.

Fake Building DamageThreshold changed to 70% from 90%.
Fake buildings can currently be destroyed by getting breathed on. This improves their ability to distract an opponent.

MIG damage vs Heavy increased by 15%. HP Increased to 75 from 70.
MIGs are rare in competitive play. The damage increase is targeted at their primary role of tank-buster. The extra bit of health should allow for one more hit from rockets and flak.

Cruiser and Missile Sub range increased from 16c0 to 20c0. Cruiser inaccuracy decreased from 2c938 to 1c938. Missile Sub inaccuracy decreased from 2c938 to 0c614
The naval siege units aren't performing up to their price tag. Improving their ability to actually hit targets is a first step in making them desirable to build.

Depth Charge speed increased from 85 to 125
This is as much of a polish fix as it is a balance change. Gun boats currently look like they are hitting themselves with depth charges while chasing subs.

Submarine vision increased by 2 (8c0)
Submarines don't have that much more vision than Gunboats or Destroyers have detection range. This allows for some stalk-and-ambush play with Subs.

@pchote

pchote approved these changes Dec 3, 2017 edited

The changes here are well justified, seem reasonable to me, and have undergone a lot of testing in balance maps without any controversy (AFAIK).

With regards to Grenadiers: this fixes #10114.

@Arular101

Arular101 approved these changes Dec 3, 2017 edited

👍 All changes are sensible, I'm interested to see how it takes off.

Only one question regarding the line of sight of the submarine: should the missile sub also get this line of sight increase?

I also wanted to mention something to you @Smittytron, just that you are aware of (not a request). The Yak and Hind does a lot of damage to wood armored buildings compared to other small caliber weapons. Because they are so effective in damaging buildings, the MiGs and Longbows are less interesting to build. Here is a screenshot versus a 1000 HP wood armored building:
wood
They all deal about the same amount of damage.

Here a screenshot versus a defensive structure (they all have 400 HP heavy armor):
heavy
This looks a bit better for the MiG and Longbow, dealing twice as much damage (the MiG even still has 2 missiles).

@penev92 penev92 added this to the Next release milestone Dec 3, 2017

@penev92 penev92 added the PR: Needs +2 label Dec 3, 2017

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netnazgul Dec 3, 2017

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All changes here are welcome ones. Though I see there are some things that didn't make it to the PR from pt-maps:

  • AA gun turret delay (tilting it from 5 to 9 was too much, but what about 6 or 7?)
  • IC duration decrease to 16 seconds (I'm not a fan of this change, but still interested as to why was it decided to not being incorporated)
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netnazgul commented Dec 3, 2017

All changes here are welcome ones. Though I see there are some things that didn't make it to the PR from pt-maps:

  • AA gun turret delay (tilting it from 5 to 9 was too much, but what about 6 or 7?)
  • IC duration decrease to 16 seconds (I'm not a fan of this change, but still interested as to why was it decided to not being incorporated)
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@netnazgul

AA gun turret delay (tilting it from 5 to 9 was too much, but what about 6 or 7?)

I've tested two different nerfs to the AA gun over the last few months, (8 cell range was the first test) and both times it was starkly clear that the nerf was too much. At this point we're pretty much testing if an AA gun nerf is warranted at all, and I didn't feel I had enough time/evidence to go either way.

IC duration decrease to 16 seconds (I'm not a fan of this change, but still interested as to why was it decided to not being incorporated)

That's pretty much the reason, there just wasn't enough support to push this change through.

@Arular101
If you're interested in the balance process we have a running thread on sleipnirs. The best way to affect balance is to bring light to issues you care about and get people talking about them. You might be on to something, 3 yaks or 3 hinds can destroy a refinery. I've got that in my notes now for the next testing cycle.

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Smittytron commented Dec 3, 2017

@netnazgul

AA gun turret delay (tilting it from 5 to 9 was too much, but what about 6 or 7?)

I've tested two different nerfs to the AA gun over the last few months, (8 cell range was the first test) and both times it was starkly clear that the nerf was too much. At this point we're pretty much testing if an AA gun nerf is warranted at all, and I didn't feel I had enough time/evidence to go either way.

IC duration decrease to 16 seconds (I'm not a fan of this change, but still interested as to why was it decided to not being incorporated)

That's pretty much the reason, there just wasn't enough support to push this change through.

@Arular101
If you're interested in the balance process we have a running thread on sleipnirs. The best way to affect balance is to bring light to issues you care about and get people talking about them. You might be on to something, 3 yaks or 3 hinds can destroy a refinery. I've got that in my notes now for the next testing cycle.

@andrii-yukhymchak

Changes are very minimal and good. I do approve of them

@abcdefg30 abcdefg30 merged commit 3d8ab75 into OpenRA:bleed Dec 5, 2017

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abcdefg30 commented Dec 5, 2017

Arular101 added a commit to Arular101/OpenRA that referenced this pull request Dec 5, 2017

@Smittytron Smittytron deleted the Smittytron:SMT-Balance branch Dec 8, 2017

Arular101 added a commit to Arular101/OpenRA that referenced this pull request Dec 9, 2017

Arular101 added a commit to Arular101/OpenRA that referenced this pull request Dec 12, 2017

Arular101 added a commit to Arular101/OpenRA that referenced this pull request Dec 12, 2017

reaperrr added a commit that referenced this pull request Dec 12, 2017

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