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Penalizes roads with 'embedded_rails' for bicycle routes. #5580

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akashihi commented Oct 18, 2019


After almost failing on a road with tram tracks i thought that this is a good thing to do.


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gardster commented Oct 31, 2019

Do I understand correctly, that this change will penalize routes with embedded rails when you will move along this route? Why do you want to handle such cases? I think that the main problem to cross such rails neither to move along them.


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danpat commented Oct 31, 2019

@gardster I imagine this PR is meant to penalize situations like the image below which exist in cities with trams/street cars. Having ridden my bike quite a lot in a city like this, I'm sort of torn. Certainly, any time you have to cross the tracks it can be a bit sketchy (especially in the wet), and the narrower the angle of your crossing, the worse it is (perpendicular crossing is usually fine, even in the wet).

However, roads like this often have bike lanes too, as they're major thoroughfares. Personally, I wouldn't avoid them, but I can see some people preferring to stay away from the roads with tracks altogether.



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akashihi commented Nov 2, 2019

@gardster Well, moving along those tracks could be unsafe too. For example here [1] you have to move close to tha tracks in parallel with them and it may happen that your bike wheel will slip into rail and you will fail. Same issue here [2] It's not just europe problem, cause Melbourne have same problem [3]

Therefore penalizing streets with tram rails (and now being equipped with the dedicated bike lanes) will result in probably longer, but safer bike routes.




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Zverik commented Nov 15, 2019

As an avid biker in past, having lead hundreds of cyclist over city streets with plenty of tram tracks, I'm strongly against this change. Tram tracks almost always leave space for cycling. Photo [1] is a rare exception — more often falls happen in cases like [3], when a cyclist is breaking traffic law (you should not ever cross the yellow line).

This change also does not account for different rules in different countries: for example, in some you cannot ride a bicycle in any lanes but the first one, and in others road planners care about cyclists and make embedded lanes, like on the photo by danpat.

Basically introducing this penalty does not differ much from introducing a penalty on pedestrian routing for footways that border with cycleways (you have to walk carefully), or a penalty on car routing on streets with embedded rails, since you have to be careful not to ride into a tram car.


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jarek commented Nov 18, 2019

(I came here from a link in weeklyOSM. I am an occasional OSRM user mostly via the website integration.)

I am a bicycle rider in a city with many stretches of legit dangerous embedded_rails streets: on-street parking and lane widths squeeze cyclists into a death zone between car doors on one side and rails on the other (Mapillary link) and if you are particularly unlucky, the concrete that the rails are set in is broken (Mapillary) and very easy to lose control (another Mapillary).

(Checking now I see that this location also triggered issue #5515 which this aims to address.)

However, some of our (relatively) best bicycle routes also have embedded_rails, but fairly safely separated from the cycleway=track (or an approximation thereof) (Mapillary view). This is actually the best cycle route through the area, and it doesn't make much sense to penalize it.

It might make sense to penalize only the highways with embedded_rails that do not also have cycleway=lane or cycleway=track for the direction in question.


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akashihi commented Nov 18, 2019

Speakin of case [1]: after falling here in fornt of car i decided to make that change :) That rail configuration is quite popular in Brno and Czech republic. Here is another one example from Praha [4] I agree with @jarek that penalizing all roads with track could be too aggresive change and some additional filtering probably needs to be applied first.


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