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Sign upUpdating TemplateVM has weird DNS / network issues #1196
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bnvk
Sep 20, 2015
Here's an additional security warning re: some Qubes packages as well
The following packages will be upgraded:
libicu52 libvchan-xen qubes-core-agent qubes-gui-agent qubes-utils qubesdb
6 upgraded, 44 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 4,139 kB/17.3 MB of archives.
After this operation, 36.8 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y
WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!
libvchan-xen qubes-utils qubes-core-agent qubes-gui-agent qubesdb
bnvk
commented
Sep 20, 2015
|
Here's an additional security warning re: some Qubes packages as well |
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marmarek
Sep 20, 2015
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Looks like some network issue. Or maybe updates proxy not running. Check
in sys-net: systemctl status qubes-updates-proxy.
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
|
Looks like some network issue. Or maybe updates proxy not running. Check Best Regards, |
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mfc
Sep 21, 2015
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I know this isn't helpful advice but you could try creating & running a whonix gateway proxyvm, I've found they work for updating templatevms even when torvm does not.
|
I know this isn't helpful advice but you could try creating & running a whonix gateway proxyvm, I've found they work for updating templatevms even when torvm does not. |
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bnvk
Sep 21, 2015
@marmarek here is the printout from sys-net which you requested:
[user@sys-net ~]$ systemctl status qubes-updates-proxy
● qubes-updates-proxy.service - Qubes updates proxy (tinyproxy)
Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/qubes-updates-proxy.service; enabled)
Active: active (running) since Sat 2015-09-19 21:34:01 CEST; 17h ago
Process: 451 ExecStartPre=/usr/lib/qubes/iptables-updates-proxy start (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
Process: 439 ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/install -d --owner tinyproxy --group tinyproxy /var/run/tinyproxy (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
Main PID: 470 (tinyproxy)
CGroup: /system.slice/qubes-updates-proxy.service
├─ 470 /usr/sbin/tinyproxy -d -c /etc/tinyproxy/tinyproxy-updates....
├─ 476 /usr/sbin/tinyproxy -d -c /etc/tinyproxy/tinyproxy-updates....
├─ 477 /usr/sbin/tinyproxy -d -c /etc/tinyproxy/tinyproxy-updates....
├─ 983 /usr/sbin/tinyproxy -d -c /etc/tinyproxy/tinyproxy-updates....
├─1847 /usr/sbin/tinyproxy -d -c /etc/tinyproxy/tinyproxy-updates....
├─1848 /usr/sbin/tinyproxy -d -c /etc/tinyproxy/tinyproxy-updates....
├─1849 /usr/sbin/tinyproxy -d -c /etc/tinyproxy/tinyproxy-updates....
├─9391 /usr/sbin/tinyproxy -d -c /etc/tinyproxy/tinyproxy-updates....
├─9392 /usr/sbin/tinyproxy -d -c /etc/tinyproxy/tinyproxy-updates....
└─9393 /usr/sbin/tinyproxy -d -c /etc/tinyproxy/tinyproxy-updates....
[user@sys-net ~]$
@mfc hehe yah, I'm just trying to get my normal Debian templates to work so I can go about checking email, etc... will try to integrate Whonix at some point soon!
bnvk
commented
Sep 21, 2015
|
@marmarek here is the printout from @mfc hehe yah, I'm just trying to get my normal Debian templates to work so I can go about checking email, etc... will try to integrate Whonix at some point soon! |
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marmarek
Sep 21, 2015
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On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 06:23:10AM -0700, Brennan Novak wrote:
@marmarek here is the printout from
sys-netwhich you requested:[user@sys-net ~]$ systemctl status qubes-updates-proxy ● qubes-updates-proxy.service - Qubes updates proxy (tinyproxy) Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/qubes-updates-proxy.service; enabled) Active: active (running) since Sat 2015-09-19 21:34:01 CEST; 17h ago
(...)
Looks good. Check template settings - it should be:
- connected to your sys-firewall VM (or any other providing some
network access) - in firewall tab, allowed to access updates proxy
Do you have some VPN or anything else limiting/redirecting the traffic?
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
|
On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 06:23:10AM -0700, Brennan Novak wrote:
(...) Looks good. Check template settings - it should be:
Do you have some VPN or anything else limiting/redirecting the traffic? Best Regards, |
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bnvk
Sep 22, 2015
Check template settings - it should be:
- connected to your sys-firewall VM (or any other providing some network access)
- in firewall tab, allowed to access updates proxy
Do you have some VPN or anything else limiting/redirecting the traffic?
No. My TemplateVMs are just connected to sys-firewall VM, nothing special. My AppVMs go through a TorVM which is based on my fedora-21 template.
It might be worth mentioning that my Fedora TemplateVMs are also timing out / not updating very often as well
[user@fedora-21-pkgs ~]$ sudo yum update
Loaded plugins: langpacks, post-transaction-actions, yum-qubes-hooks
Could not get metalink https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/metalink?repo=updates-released-f21&arch=x86_64 error was
14: curl#22 - "The requested URL returned error: 500"
updates | 4.7 kB 00:00:00
http://mirror2.hs-esslingen.de/fedora/linux/updates/21/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno -1] repomd.xml does not match metalink for updates
Trying other mirror.
http://ftp.lysator.liu.se/pub/fedora/linux/updates/21/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout on http://ftp.lysator.liu.se/pub/fedora/linux/updates/21/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: (28, 'Operation too slow. Less than 1000 bytes/sec transferred the last 30 seconds')
Trying other mirror.
updates | 4.7 kB 00:00:00
http://mirror.netcologne.de/fedora/linux/updates/21/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno -1] repomd.xml does not match metalink for updates
Trying other mirror.
updates | 4.7 kB 00:00:00
http://www.nic.funet.fi/pub/mirrors/fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/updates/21/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno -1] repomd.xml does not match metalink for updates
Trying other mirror.
http://mirror.slu.cz/fedora/linux/updates/21/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout on http://mirror.slu.cz/fedora/linux/updates/21/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: (28, 'Operation too slow. Less than 1000 bytes/sec transferred the last 30 seconds')
Trying other mirror.
http://mirror.vutbr.cz/fedora/updates/21/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout on http://mirror.vutbr.cz/fedora/updates/21/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: (28, 'Operation too slow. Less than 1000 bytes/sec transferred the last 30 seconds')
bnvk
commented
Sep 22, 2015
No. My TemplateVMs are just connected to It might be worth mentioning that my Fedora TemplateVMs are also timing out / not updating very often as well |
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bnvk
Sep 22, 2015
DOH!!! I think the root of the problem was due to a month ago @mfc suggested changing the Dom0 Global Settings to attempt making everything run over my TorVM- this worked for a couple weeks, then at some point stopped, so I gave up on this and switched each of my TemplateVM's individual settings to use the normal sys-firewall NetVM,
Apparently, I had forgotten about the global settings and left the UpdateVM to use my TorVM.
After switching this back, all my Debian & Fedora templates update and new packages install just fine. That said, this seems like something we need to improve upon in perhaps one of these ways:
- Make Tor & Proxy VM's more reliable
- Limiting the configuration and possibility for this in the GUI
- Forcing use of Whonix templates...
- Redesigning / offering better GUI that includes how "global" settings affect each TemplateVM and AppVM ultimate settings
- Offering a way to better report configurations like this to forums / here so less time is wasted
Feel free to close this issue or perhaps rename it, as this is definitely something to better track / work on improving!
bnvk
commented
Sep 22, 2015
|
DOH!!! I think the root of the problem was due to a month ago @mfc suggested changing the Apparently, I had forgotten about the global settings and left the
After switching this back, all my Debian & Fedora templates update and new packages install just fine. That said, this seems like something we need to improve upon in perhaps one of these ways:
Feel free to close this issue or perhaps rename it, as this is definitely something to better track / work on improving! |
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mfc
Sep 22, 2015
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yaaay glad it was solved! to be fair I recommended using a whonix-gw-based proxyvm, not a torvm, in part because I had previous encountered these same issues with trying to use torvm for template updates.
In addition to the other issues you highlight, I think this maybe speaks to the need to depreciate torvm and ensure / make sure that whonix-gw can deliver on this intended functionality, which I know @adrelanos has been working on recently.
|
yaaay glad it was solved! to be fair I recommended using a whonix-gw-based proxyvm, not a torvm, in part because I had previous encountered these same issues with trying to use torvm for template updates. In addition to the other issues you highlight, I think this maybe speaks to the need to depreciate torvm and ensure / make sure that whonix-gw can deliver on this intended functionality, which I know @adrelanos has been working on recently. |
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marmarek
Sep 22, 2015
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TorVM (that fedora based) doesn't support updates proxy - so when set
as default netvm (or simply netvm for templates) it will not work. Also
it doesn't torify traffic originating from the TorVM itself (which is
clearly marked in the docs), so it's pointless to use it as an UpdateVM.
Both use cases works with Whonix Gw.
Generally I think we should deprecate TorVM in favor of Whonix GW. Any
objections?
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
|
TorVM (that fedora based) doesn't support updates proxy - so when set Generally I think we should deprecate TorVM in favor of Whonix GW. Any Best Regards, |
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bnvk
Sep 22, 2015
@mfc true, you did suggest that, I was wary as it was just after the UX review of the current state of Whonix and since the Global Settings seemed to work at that time, I went with it. Odd that they did at all based on @marmarek comment!
Generally I think we should deprecate TorVM in favor of Whonix GW
Sounds good. Will that be in 3.0 or 3.1 or later? It seems like a pretty significant thing- perhaps enough that shipping a 3.0 with just normal TorVM (which will be deprecated) seems to mildly deflate the potential of a major release... thoughts?!
bnvk
commented
Sep 22, 2015
|
@mfc true, you did suggest that, I was wary as it was just after the UX review of the current state of Whonix and since the Global Settings seemed to work at that time, I went with it. Odd that they did at all based on @marmarek comment!
Sounds good. Will that be in 3.0 or 3.1 or later? It seems like a pretty significant thing- perhaps enough that shipping a 3.0 with just normal TorVM (which will be deprecated) seems to mildly deflate the potential of a major release... thoughts?! |
mfc
referenced this issue
Sep 22, 2015
Closed
depreciate torvm, add Whonix templates (at minimum whonix-gw) to Qubes installer #1201
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I have created a ticket to track torvm depreciation: #1201 |
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adrelanos
Sep 22, 2015
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We can have Whonix 12 ready for Qubes 3.0. Do you have any ETA for Qubes 3.0?
The development version Whonix UX now stays out of the way. I am in the final cleanup and testing stage (of non-UX stuff). I planned to create a thread on qubes-devel on how to proceed. There is some stuff I appreciate merged upstream at Qubes. Here are my notes:
https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Dev/Qubes#Build
|
We can have Whonix 12 ready for Qubes 3.0. Do you have any ETA for Qubes 3.0? The development version Whonix UX now stays out of the way. I am in the final cleanup and testing stage (of non-UX stuff). I planned to create a thread on qubes-devel on how to proceed. There is some stuff I appreciate merged upstream at Qubes. Here are my notes: |
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bnvk
Sep 22, 2015
@mfc @adrelanos thanks, i'm closing this issue, as it is mislabled / better tracked elsewhere! Thanks y'all :)
bnvk
commented
Sep 22, 2015
|
@mfc @adrelanos thanks, i'm closing this issue, as it is mislabled / better tracked elsewhere! Thanks y'all :) |
bnvk
closed this
Sep 22, 2015
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marmarek
Sep 22, 2015
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On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 11:41:45AM -0700, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
We can have Whonix 12 ready for Qubes 3.0. Do you have any ETA for Qubes 3.0?
If nothing catastrophic will happen final R3.0 will be exactly the same
as R3.0-rc3 and released on Oct 1. The minor fixes which are already
fixed (pull requests) or will be discovered, will go as updates.
We can have Whonix 12 as default in R3.1 and also as an update to R3.0
(as previously done with 9->10->11).
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
|
On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 11:41:45AM -0700, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
If nothing catastrophic will happen final R3.0 will be exactly the same We can have Whonix 12 as default in R3.1 and also as an update to R3.0 Best Regards, |
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mfc
Sep 23, 2015
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Would it be possible to add Whonix as one of the optional templates in the R3.0 ISO? Then for R3.1 we can aim to implement Qubes updates over Tor by default.
|
Would it be possible to add Whonix as one of the optional templates in the R3.0 ISO? Then for R3.1 we can aim to implement Qubes updates over Tor by default. |
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marmarek
Sep 23, 2015
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On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 02:01:20AM -0700, Michael Carbone wrote:
Would it be possible to add Whonix as one of the optional templates in the R3.0 ISO? Then for R3.1 we can aim to implement Qubes updates over Tor by default.
I don't think it's a good time to make any modification of R3.0 ISO.
Additionally Whonix currently needs some manual steps to work properly
(setting netvm of appvms, and the template(s) itself). In R3.1 we'll
have pre-configuration stack to handle this job.
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
|
On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 02:01:20AM -0700, Michael Carbone wrote:
I don't think it's a good time to make any modification of R3.0 ISO. Best Regards, |
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mfc
Sep 23, 2015
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yeah true. I guess it would be more to build awareness of this functionality (so that folks try to set whonix up first instead of trying to set up torvms and avoid running into their various issues).
at minimum maybe just add some text in the template installation screen noting that there are other templates available at https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/Templates/
otherwise users may think those templates listed (debian 7, debian 8) are the only ones other than fedora available.
|
yeah true. I guess it would be more to build awareness of this functionality (so that folks try to set whonix up first instead of trying to set up torvms and avoid running into their various issues). at minimum maybe just add some text in the template installation screen noting that there are other templates available at https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/Templates/ otherwise users may think those templates listed (debian 7, debian 8) are the only ones other than fedora available. |
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marmarek
Sep 23, 2015
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On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 02:35:14AM -0700, Michael Carbone wrote:
yeah true. I guess it would be more to build awareness of this functionality (so that folks try to set whonix up first instead of trying to set up torvms and avoid running into their various issues).
User still needs to look into documentation for that. So we may add some
info into TorVM documentation recommending Whonix.
at minimum maybe just add some text in the template installation screen noting that there are other templates available at https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/Templates/
Yes, good idea.
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
|
On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 02:35:14AM -0700, Michael Carbone wrote:
User still needs to look into documentation for that. So we may add some
Yes, good idea. Best Regards, |
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adrelanos
Sep 23, 2015
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Using Whonix-Gateway as UpdateVM will be possible in Whonix 12, yes. It's a nice alternative in case of DNS issues, but not THE solution to updating issues.
|
Using Whonix-Gateway as UpdateVM will be possible in Whonix 12, yes. It's a nice alternative in case of DNS issues, but not THE solution to updating issues. |
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bnvk
Sep 24, 2015
Hrm, still having weird issues with this, sometimes running sudo apt update seems ok and completes reasonably, other time it's hangs at various stages (usually the [Waiting for headers] stage) for really long periods 5 - 15 minutes to complete or timing out altogether.
This seems unique to the Debian TemplateVM as my Fedora template completes reasonably fast from same internet connection! Should I re-open and keep tracking this @marmarek ?
bnvk
commented
Sep 24, 2015
|
Hrm, still having weird issues with this, sometimes running This seems unique to the Debian TemplateVM as my Fedora template completes reasonably fast from same internet connection! Should I re-open and keep tracking this @marmarek ? |
bnvk
reopened this
Sep 25, 2015
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bnvk
Sep 25, 2015
Ok, definitely reopening this. The debian support seems to be quite messed up / poor in my experience.
- Updating packages does not complete / times out
- The
localevalue seems to get erased causing Terminal (and now even Xterm) from not opening in a template I was trying to switch tounstabledebian
It's a shame the debian support in Qubes seems so buggy, as it's the distro of choice for so many in the privacy / security community and reason consistently cited as why they don't use Qubes
bnvk
commented
Sep 25, 2015
|
Ok, definitely reopening this. The debian support seems to be quite messed up / poor in my experience.
It's a shame the debian support in Qubes seems so buggy, as it's the distro of choice for so many in the privacy / security community and reason consistently cited as why they don't use Qubes |
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marmarek
Sep 25, 2015
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On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 03:31:48AM -0700, Brennan Novak wrote:
Ok, definitely reopening this. The debian support seems to be quite messed up / poor in my experience.
- Updating packages does not complete / times out
@mfc do you have any such problem?
- The
localevalue seems to get erased causing Terminal (and now even Xterm) from not opening in a template I was trying to switch tounstabledebian
As you've probably guessed, we don't support unstable debian version.
In any way.
We may consider building packages for testing, but not doing it
currently.
It's a shame the debian support in Qubes seems so buggy, as it's the distro of choice for so many in the privacy / security community and reason consistently cited as why they don't use Qubes
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
|
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 03:31:48AM -0700, Brennan Novak wrote:
@mfc do you have any such problem?
As you've probably guessed, we don't support
Best Regards, |
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mfc
Sep 25, 2015
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do you have any such problem?
no I do not, sorry. both firewall-vm and whonix-gw based template updates work for me. however i'm on 3.0rc3 and @bnvk is on 3.0rc2 which may have something to do with it?
no I do not, sorry. both firewall-vm and whonix-gw based template updates work for me. however i'm on 3.0rc3 and @bnvk is on 3.0rc2 which may have something to do with it? |
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marmarek
Sep 25, 2015
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On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 07:51:02AM -0700, Michael Carbone wrote:
however i'm on 3.0rc3 and @bnvk is on 3.0rc2 which may have something to do with it?
There is no difference - when you install updates on 3.0rc2, you'll
automatically be on 3.0rc3 (and later on final 3.0 when released).
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
|
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 07:51:02AM -0700, Michael Carbone wrote:
There is no difference - when you install updates on 3.0rc2, you'll Best Regards, |
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bnvk
Sep 26, 2015
FWIW, I've since installed whonix-ws and whonix-gw and configured a proxy NetVM on the later. After making my normal debian-8 template use the Whonix NetVM I'm able to update packages and install new ones perfectly.
So, perhaps my Qubes / debian-8 template is messed up somehow... I can try and do a fresh install on a spare machine using stock setup and report back!
bnvk
commented
Sep 26, 2015
|
FWIW, I've since installed So, perhaps my Qubes / debian-8 template is messed up somehow... I can try and do a fresh install on a spare machine using stock setup and report back! |
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Could be this DNS resolution issue? |
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marmarek
Sep 28, 2015
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On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 02:53:32AM -0700, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
Could be this DNS resolution issue?
#1067
Since updates proxy is running in netvm (which isn't affected by this
bug) I don't think so. Unless, updates proxy was enabled in some other
VM? You can check that in VM settings - services tab (search for
"qubes-updates-proxy") - check for all the VMs in the network chain
between your template and netvm (in default setup it would be
sys-firewall only).
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
|
On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 02:53:32AM -0700, Patrick Schleizer wrote:
Since updates proxy is running in netvm (which isn't affected by this Best Regards, |
bnvk
changed the title from
Updating debian-8 templates has weird issues
to
Updating TemplateVM has weird DNS / network issues
Oct 4, 2015
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bnvk
Oct 4, 2015
I just changed the title of this issue. It definitely feels like something not specific to Debian, but rather Qubes network / DNS or what have you, like @adrelanos mentioned in the other issue, as now I'm experience very similar behavior with my fedora-21 TemplateVM as it will not update and just says these sort of errors:
[user@fedora-21 ~]$ sudo yum update
Loaded plugins: langpacks, post-transaction-actions, yum-qubes-hooks
http://yum.qubes-os.org/r3.0/current/vm/fc21/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout on http://yum.qubes-os.org/r3.0/current/vm/fc21/repodata/repomd.xml: (28, 'Operation too slow. Less than 1000 bytes/sec transferred the last 30 seconds')
Trying other mirror.
http://yum.qubes-os.org/r3.0/current/vm/fc21/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout on http://yum.qubes-os.org/r3.0/current/vm/fc21/repodata/repomd.xml: (28, 'Operation too slow. Less than 1000 bytes/sec transferred the last 30 seconds')
Trying other mirror.
qubes-vm-r3.0-current | 2.9 kB 00:00:00
tor | 2.9 kB 00:00:00
tor-source | 2.9 kB 00:00:00
Could not get metalink https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/metalink?repo=updates-released-f21&arch=x86_64 error was
14: curl#22 - "The requested URL returned error: 500"
No packages marked for update
[user@fedora-21 ~]$ sudo yum update
Loaded plugins: langpacks, post-transaction-actions, yum-qubes-hooks
No packages marked for update
bnvk
commented
Oct 4, 2015
|
I just changed the title of this issue. It definitely feels like something not specific to Debian, but rather Qubes network / DNS or what have you, like @adrelanos mentioned in the other issue, as now I'm experience very similar behavior with my |
marmarek
added
bug
help wanted
C: core
C: other
P: minor
labels
Jan 7, 2016
marmarek
added this to the Release 3.0 updates milestone
Jan 7, 2016
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bnvk
Feb 17, 2016
Closing this as I have not experienced it since using 3.1 Whonix templates for my netvm! Hooray!
bnvk
commented
Feb 17, 2016
|
Closing this as I have not experienced it since using 3.1 Whonix templates for my netvm! Hooray! |
bnvk commentedSep 20, 2015
For the last week or two I haven't been able to get my debian-8 TemplateVM to update without errors and lots of hanging time when trying to download packages. I'm running my TemplateVMs through normal
sys-firewallNetVM as it seems there are issues using TorVM or ProxyVM for updating packages.Here is some of errors from running
sudo apt updateAnd then here are some of the errors from running
sudo apt upgrade