Tails does not boot in Qubes HVM

[adrelanos]

I've downloaded Tails 1.6. Stored in my iso-download (debian-8 based) AppVM. Then followed the https://www.qubes-os.org/en/doc/hvm-create/ instructions.

Initially Tails boots. You can see the Tails boot menu. Whatever you choose, the default option or failsafe, same result. Where it hangs is a black screen only showing _.

It doesn't bother me personally too much. It's very low on my wishlist. So is this worth of being reported? I am just wondering if there could be a more general underlying issue that would be worth fixing.

[marmarek]

I guess it's about ancient qemu we have in stub domain. Unfortunately
newer version (aka "qemu upstream") requires major stub domain rework,
which hadn't been done yet (but was planned since AFAIR Xen 4.4). Eric
Shelton tried to encourage Xen people to work on it, also providing some
help there. But as for today, Xen 4.6 still doesn't support qemu
upstream in stub domain.

Anyway this problem probably can be fixed by Tails by some Xorg
configuration (or adding another driver). Not sure if worth reporting,
what is the Tails statement about using it in VM?

Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[marmarek]

I guess it's about ancient qemu we have in stub domain. Unfortunately
newer version (aka "qemu upstream") requires major stub domain rework,
which hadn't been done yet (but was planned since AFAIR Xen 4.4). Eric
Shelton tried to encourage Xen people to work on it, also providing some
help there. But as for today, Xen 4.6 still doesn't support qemu
upstream in stub domain.

Anyway this problem probably can be fixed by Tails by some Xorg
configuration (or adding another driver). Not sure if worth reporting,
what is the Tails statement about using it in VM?

Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[adrelanos]

what is the Tails statement about using it in VM?

https://tails.boum.org/doc/advanced_topics/virtualization/index.de.html

[adrelanos]

what is the Tails statement about using it in VM?

https://tails.boum.org/doc/advanced_topics/virtualization/index.de.html

[unman]

@adrelanos
Explicitly setting vga mode at boot should fix this.
Try appending vga=792

[unman]

@adrelanos
Explicitly setting vga mode at boot should fix this.
Try appending vga=792

[adrelanos]

That workaround works.

[adrelanos]

That workaround works.

[adrelanos]

Booted with smaller resolution, vga=788. But that workaround still leaves one with an unusable Tails. It boots up until the graphical target just fine. The problem is, that the bottom side of the window reaches below dom0's taskbar. So for example the "ok" button in Tails launcher outside the visible monitor area.

[adrelanos]

Booted with smaller resolution, vga=788. But that workaround still leaves one with an unusable Tails. It boots up until the graphical target just fine. The problem is, that the bottom side of the window reaches below dom0's taskbar. So for example the "ok" button in Tails launcher outside the visible monitor area.

[adrelanos]

Existing general Qubes OS ticket at Tails redmine tracker,
Try running Tails inside of Qubes OS:
https://labs.riseup.net/code/issues/8607

Reported this issue on the tails-dev mailing list,
[Tails-dev] Tails fails to run inside Qubes OS:
https://mailman.boum.org/pipermail/tails-dev/2015-October/009628.html

[adrelanos]

Existing general Qubes OS ticket at Tails redmine tracker,
Try running Tails inside of Qubes OS:
https://labs.riseup.net/code/issues/8607

Reported this issue on the tails-dev mailing list,
[Tails-dev] Tails fails to run inside Qubes OS:
https://mailman.boum.org/pipermail/tails-dev/2015-October/009628.html

[marmarek]

Not sure how to classify this? Should we have some documentation "how to run Tails in Qubes HVM"?

[marmarek]

Not sure how to classify this? Should we have some documentation "how to run Tails in Qubes HVM"?

[DrWhax]

I was just trying this out! What a coincidence! On my R3.0 with the vga=788 option, I just get a blank screen and nothing happens. This was with a Tails 1.8.1 release.

Ideally, we should test out the 2.0 beta release that is next on my list of things to do. Hopefully things have improved on Debian Jessie's side, it's slightly more positive from what I understand from the tails-dev mailinglist.

But yes, if we figure out what works with what version, we should create documentation for it!

[DrWhax]

I was just trying this out! What a coincidence! On my R3.0 with the vga=788 option, I just get a blank screen and nothing happens. This was with a Tails 1.8.1 release.

Ideally, we should test out the 2.0 beta release that is next on my list of things to do. Hopefully things have improved on Debian Jessie's side, it's slightly more positive from what I understand from the tails-dev mailinglist.

But yes, if we figure out what works with what version, we should create documentation for it!

[adrelanos]

Documenting it isn't possible as no one has figured out yet how to get
it into a usable state.

As per what you wrote in
#1343 (comment)
it's a Xen issue. One you probably won't have priority/time to fix. Not
sure what's best to do with such kind of tickets. It's an outstanding
issue, good to know, not really fixed, good if found through search
engines. I would leave it open with "patches welcome". Or close it if
that works better with your issue tracker customs.

[adrelanos]

Documenting it isn't possible as no one has figured out yet how to get
it into a usable state.

As per what you wrote in
#1343 (comment)
it's a Xen issue. One you probably won't have priority/time to fix. Not
sure what's best to do with such kind of tickets. It's an outstanding
issue, good to know, not really fixed, good if found through search
engines. I would leave it open with "patches welcome". Or close it if
that works better with your issue tracker customs.

[adrelanos]

Seems like @DrWhax and me posted in the exact same minute. This somewhat obsoletes my previous post. Since someone is working on it, perhaps best to leave it open.

[adrelanos]

Seems like @DrWhax and me posted in the exact same minute. This somewhat obsoletes my previous post. Since someone is working on it, perhaps best to leave it open.

[DrWhax]

Well, both the beta of 2.0 and a latest stable release (1.8.1) both don't load, all I get is a black screen. Fiddling with the vga line doesn't do anything to circumvent the issue. I guess we should document that it doesn't work? :)

[DrWhax]

Well, both the beta of 2.0 and a latest stable release (1.8.1) both don't load, all I get is a black screen. Fiddling with the vga line doesn't do anything to circumvent the issue. I guess we should document that it doesn't work? :)

[austin987]

@marmarek / @adrelanos what Xen issue? What Xorg driver is needed? Tails is based on Debian, if it's only a missing driver this should be trivial to fix on Tails' end.

[austin987]

@marmarek / @adrelanos what Xen issue? What Xorg driver is needed? Tails is based on Debian, if it's only a missing driver this should be trivial to fix on Tails' end.

[adrelanos]

#1343 (comment)

[adrelanos]

#1343 (comment)

[austin987]

Yes, I saw that. I was hoping for a Xen bug # or link, and/or the name of the missing Xorg driver, if known.

[austin987]

Yes, I saw that. I was hoping for a Xen bug # or link, and/or the name of the missing Xorg driver, if known.

[DrWhax]

Indeed, this would allow us to build an iso and test again. Any pointer is welcome.

[DrWhax]

Indeed, this would allow us to build an iso and test again. Any pointer is welcome.

[marmarek]

Does Tails use "quiet" kernel boot option? If so, remove and see kernel
messages. Or maybe it fails at X server load time? Having some way to
extract X server log would be useful...

Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[marmarek]

Does Tails use "quiet" kernel boot option? If so, remove and see kernel
messages. Or maybe it fails at X server load time? Having some way to
extract X server log would be useful...

Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[DrWhax]

I just did this with an Tails 2.0~beta1 iso and I get this:

"Probing EDD (edd=off to disable) OK" and then it just hangs.

[DrWhax]

I just did this with an Tails 2.0~beta1 iso and I get this:

"Probing EDD (edd=off to disable) OK" and then it just hangs.

[austin987]

@marmarek, yes, it's quiet by default.

I've never used Qubes myself (on my list of things to try soon), is https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/live-usb/ still valid? That would make testing easier for me.

[austin987]

@marmarek, yes, it's quiet by default.

I've never used Qubes myself (on my list of things to try soon), is https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/live-usb/ still valid? That would make testing easier for me.

[adrelanos]

Austin English:

I've never used Qubes myself (on my list of things to try soon), is https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/live-usb/ still valid? That would make testing easier for me.

Please don't hijack random tickets for unrelated discussion. No offense
intended. Just trying to keep the overview.

[adrelanos]

Austin English:

I've never used Qubes myself (on my list of things to try soon), is https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/live-usb/ still valid? That would make testing easier for me.

Please don't hijack random tickets for unrelated discussion. No offense
intended. Just trying to keep the overview.

[mfc]

just to keep this thread updated, there is online documentation on running Tails in Qubes HVM now: https://garlicgambit.wordpress.com/2016/04/22/how-to-run-tails-from-a-qubes-live-cd and #1969.

[mfc]

just to keep this thread updated, there is online documentation on running Tails in Qubes HVM now: https://garlicgambit.wordpress.com/2016/04/22/how-to-run-tails-from-a-qubes-live-cd and #1969.

[andrewdavidwong]

@unman (#1969 (comment)):

I'm amazed #1343 is still open: it was only ever a display problem, for which I gave solution. It's not an issue now.

@adrelanos, @marmarek: Can we close this?

[andrewdavidwong]

@unman (#1969 (comment)):

I'm amazed #1343 is still open: it was only ever a display problem, for which I gave solution. It's not an issue now.

@adrelanos, @marmarek: Can we close this?

[adrelanos]

@DrWhax can you test and confirm please?

[adrelanos]

@DrWhax can you test and confirm please?

[mfc]

this ticket should shift towards documenting how to do it -- running Tails within an installed instance of Qubes will have slightly different (and shorter) documentation than garlicgambit's documentation, and is vastly more useful since Qubes Live USB is not maintained.

[mfc]

this ticket should shift towards documenting how to do it -- running Tails within an installed instance of Qubes will have slightly different (and shorter) documentation than garlicgambit's documentation, and is vastly more useful since Qubes Live USB is not maintained.

[adrelanos]

Since QubesOS/qubes-doc#154 by @unman was merged, I guess this ticket can be closed.

(For the record: this does not give us amnesic / anti-forensics / Tails-like functionality in Qubes. That is #2024.)

[adrelanos]

Since QubesOS/qubes-doc#154 by @unman was merged, I guess this ticket can be closed.

(For the record: this does not give us amnesic / anti-forensics / Tails-like functionality in Qubes. That is #2024.)

[mfc]

great, closed.

[mfc]

great, closed.