qubes-windows-tools: Support for Windows 8/8.1/10

[caschulz88]

Hi,

I was wasn't able to find any already opened issue about this topic so I'm creating one right now. In all documentation on qubes-windows-tools there is always only the information that newer Windows versions than Windows 7 are in development.

Can anyone please clarify what exactly this means? Do we have a roadmap or special features, which are missing at the moment? Because the MSI installer has a hard check for Windows 7 version in it I wasn't able to run the installer on Windows 8 and Windows 10 in comatibility mode (as the user cannot specify a specific Windows version in compatibility mode as he could do when running some executable file). I bet there are some reasons to include such a check there.

Would be great to have this list posted here. I'm also willing to help to get support for Windows 8 and 10 of course!

[marmarek]

Indeed there is no open issue for that, but this is exactly what @omeg is doing right now. The most challenging is totally different graphics drivers framework (or more precise: removal of the old, simpler one).

[marmarek]

Indeed there is no open issue for that, but this is exactly what @omeg is doing right now. The most challenging is totally different graphics drivers framework (or more precise: removal of the old, simpler one).

[8tt]

Any updates on the current progress of the Windows 10 support? It would be very nice to be able to run Windows 10 VM in a resolution higher than default 1024x1024.

[8tt]

Any updates on the current progress of the Windows 10 support? It would be very nice to be able to run Windows 10 VM in a resolution higher than default 1024x1024.

[marmarek]

Not sure about details, but drivers for running Windows 10 in
non-seamless mode are almost complete. Seamless mode will not happen
anytime soon (if ever...).

@omeg can provide more details.

Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[marmarek]

Not sure about details, but drivers for running Windows 10 in
non-seamless mode are almost complete. Seamless mode will not happen
anytime soon (if ever...).

@omeg can provide more details.

Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[sveeke]

Since it has been 18 days since the last update: @omeg, do you have an indication when Win 8+ support will be ready? And just out of curiosity: what does in mean that seamless mode will probably never happen in Win 10? And does this also apply to Win 8(.1)?

[sveeke]

Since it has been 18 days since the last update: @omeg, do you have an indication when Win 8+ support will be ready? And just out of curiosity: what does in mean that seamless mode will probably never happen in Win 10? And does this also apply to Win 8(.1)?

[schnbrg]

@sveeke - seamless mode is when you can control an application window from a VM on the host destkop. It is sort of like "Unity" from VMware. I am guessing the graphics drivers framework that @marmarek mentioned are making it difficult to implement seamless mode.

Non-seamless mode is fine with me!

[schnbrg]

@sveeke - seamless mode is when you can control an application window from a VM on the host destkop. It is sort of like "Unity" from VMware. I am guessing the graphics drivers framework that @marmarek mentioned are making it difficult to implement seamless mode.

Non-seamless mode is fine with me!

[brunoais]

Without any intention to add pressure to an awesome project I can get for free (Thank you!), and just with the intention so I can prepare myself to the vague date:
@omeg How complete do you think this ticket is and when does it seem this can be completed (even if you fail at it by a long shot)?

[brunoais]

Without any intention to add pressure to an awesome project I can get for free (Thank you!), and just with the intention so I can prepare myself to the vague date:
@omeg How complete do you think this ticket is and when does it seem this can be completed (even if you fail at it by a long shot)?

[andrewdavidwong]

@brunoais: No one is currently working on this (hence the help wanted label), so the answer to your second question is: If/when we receive patches from the community, or if/when the Qubes team has time to resume work on this, whichever (if either) comes first.

[andrewdavidwong]

@brunoais: No one is currently working on this (hence the help wanted label), so the answer to your second question is: If/when we receive patches from the community, or if/when the Qubes team has time to resume work on this, whichever (if either) comes first.

[brunoais]

@andrewdavidwong Oh! I didn't know those tags were because there's no one working on it. In that case, any ETA question makes no sense.
Thank you for that 2nd part of the answer, though. Even through it didn't make sense after knowing no one is actually working on it ATM.

[brunoais]

@andrewdavidwong Oh! I didn't know those tags were because there's no one working on it. In that case, any ETA question makes no sense.
Thank you for that 2nd part of the answer, though. Even through it didn't make sense after knowing no one is actually working on it ATM.

[andrewdavidwong]

I didn't know those tags were because there's no one working on it.

In this case, yes.

Thank you for that 2nd part of the answer, though. Even through it didn't make sense after knowing no one is actually working on it ATM.

I'm not sure what you mean.

[andrewdavidwong]

I didn't know those tags were because there's no one working on it.

In this case, yes.

Thank you for that 2nd part of the answer, though. Even through it didn't make sense after knowing no one is actually working on it ATM.

I'm not sure what you mean.

[brunoais]

I'm not sure what you mean.

As there is no one working on this, it doesn't make sense to have an ETA in a project such as this. Thought that, you still tried to get me an answer. I appreciate it.
Do you understand now?

[brunoais]

I'm not sure what you mean.

As there is no one working on this, it doesn't make sense to have an ETA in a project such as this. Thought that, you still tried to get me an answer. I appreciate it.
Do you understand now?

[andrewdavidwong]

As there is no one working on this, it doesn't make sense to have an ETA in a project such as this. Thought that, you still tried to get me an answer. I appreciate it.
Do you understand now?

Yes. :)

[andrewdavidwong]

As there is no one working on this, it doesn't make sense to have an ETA in a project such as this. Thought that, you still tried to get me an answer. I appreciate it.
Do you understand now?

Yes. :)

[cmavr8]

(As noted before, I've no intention to add pressure and thanks for the great work!)
The following may help prioritization, now that development funding is available.

I argue that supporting newer windows is important for two reasons that have not been mentioned before:

• There is currently no way to run any version of properly-supported MS Windows for free. For occasional users of Windows, who may not want to pay for a full license for each VM, the only legal and free option is the MS Edge evaluation VMs that MS provides for free. Unfortunately, they only provide x86 Windows 7, which is not compatible with Qubes's guest tools. It would be great if we could get the tools working on Win10 since Microsoft provides an x64 version for free.
• Windows 7 will go out of extended support in about 2.5 years (January 14, 2020). It would be best if we have time to test guest tools on Win8+ before having to rely on them as the only option.

[cmavr8]

(As noted before, I've no intention to add pressure and thanks for the great work!)
The following may help prioritization, now that development funding is available.

I argue that supporting newer windows is important for two reasons that have not been mentioned before:

• There is currently no way to run any version of properly-supported MS Windows for free. For occasional users of Windows, who may not want to pay for a full license for each VM, the only legal and free option is the MS Edge evaluation VMs that MS provides for free. Unfortunately, they only provide x86 Windows 7, which is not compatible with Qubes's guest tools. It would be great if we could get the tools working on Win10 since Microsoft provides an x64 version for free.
• Windows 7 will go out of extended support in about 2.5 years (January 14, 2020). It would be best if we have time to test guest tools on Win8+ before having to rely on them as the only option.

[tonsimple]

If at any point a tester who tends to work >4 hours per day in a windows VM and is willing to "get dangerous" is needed for this, hit me up :)

[tonsimple]

If at any point a tester who tends to work >4 hours per day in a windows VM and is willing to "get dangerous" is needed for this, hit me up :)

[anodium]

Let's get dangerous @tonsimple :-)

[anodium]

Let's get dangerous @tonsimple :-)

[Yethal]

@tonsimple how can I help?

[Yethal]

@tonsimple how can I help?

[tonsimple]

@Yethal haha, I meant that I'm ready to test win10 tools as soon as they are ready ))

I use windows in qubes a huge lot (as evidenced with really obscure windows-on-qubes bugs I've managed to run into and submit) so I decided it may be neat to notify the developers that I am ready to be the guinea pig for the Win10 tools when the time is right

[tonsimple]

@Yethal haha, I meant that I'm ready to test win10 tools as soon as they are ready ))

I use windows in qubes a huge lot (as evidenced with really obscure windows-on-qubes bugs I've managed to run into and submit) so I decided it may be neat to notify the developers that I am ready to be the guinea pig for the Win10 tools when the time is right

[Yethal]

Oh well, that's a shame. Anyway, if anybody needs a second pair of hands to help I'm here. I have a spare physical machine I can reinstall Qubes on over and over if needed.

[Yethal]

Oh well, that's a shame. Anyway, if anybody needs a second pair of hands to help I'm here. I have a spare physical machine I can reinstall Qubes on over and over if needed.

[entr0py]

[Off-topic] For those desperate to use Windows 10 on Qubes, there is a (less secure?) alternative to qubes-windows-tools. As you know, Windows 10 installs and runs fine as an HVM on Qubes. Inter-VM interaction can be achieved using freerdp, which implements shared clipboard, shared folders, and seamless windows (via remote-apps). If your Windows VM is running on a separate HyperV host, you can have a fully functional, gpu-accelerated Windows 10 VM on your Qubes machine (via RemoteFX).

[entr0py]

[Off-topic] For those desperate to use Windows 10 on Qubes, there is a (less secure?) alternative to qubes-windows-tools. As you know, Windows 10 installs and runs fine as an HVM on Qubes. Inter-VM interaction can be achieved using freerdp, which implements shared clipboard, shared folders, and seamless windows (via remote-apps). If your Windows VM is running on a separate HyperV host, you can have a fully functional, gpu-accelerated Windows 10 VM on your Qubes machine (via RemoteFX).

[krzivn]

@3n7r0p1 Do you have any pointers to pages on that? Most of what I turn up that deals with windows in Qubes is an after thought, old, or both.

Don't get me wrong, Qubes still absolutely rules and I hope someday it'll show windows how to actually do windows right.

[krzivn]

@3n7r0p1 Do you have any pointers to pages on that? Most of what I turn up that deals with windows in Qubes is an after thought, old, or both.

Don't get me wrong, Qubes still absolutely rules and I hope someday it'll show windows how to actually do windows right.

[entr0py]

@krzivn Sorry to keep you in suspense. Discussion here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/qubes-users/dB_OU87dJWA

[entr0py]

@krzivn Sorry to keep you in suspense. Discussion here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/qubes-users/dB_OU87dJWA

[papaponmx]

Is there any update on this feature? I want to get involved in Ethical Hacking, but I also work as a Front End Developer, so I need access to some Windows software.

My question is the following, if I buy my own Windows 10 license, will I be able to run in within a QubesOS VM?

[papaponmx]

Is there any update on this feature? I want to get involved in Ethical Hacking, but I also work as a Front End Developer, so I need access to some Windows software.

My question is the following, if I buy my own Windows 10 license, will I be able to run in within a QubesOS VM?

[najamelan]

@papaponmx I don't speak from experience, but as far as I understand how it works, if it can run under xen, you should be able to run it. See the comment of user:entr0py. However you won't get the qubes tools that make sure the clipboard and other stuff integrate with qubes (the qubes guest additions are missing if you will).

[najamelan]

@papaponmx I don't speak from experience, but as far as I understand how it works, if it can run under xen, you should be able to run it. See the comment of user:entr0py. However you won't get the qubes tools that make sure the clipboard and other stuff integrate with qubes (the qubes guest additions are missing if you will).

[andrewdavidwong]

In this day and age where crowfunding campaigns are started for stranded cats and what not...

Can we have an estimate budget on how much it would cost to hire devs who could start working on the win10 VM so we can start testing? I'll happily be the first to contribute.

Thank you for the great software you provide us!

Thanks for your willingness to contribute! You can read more about donating to the Qubes OS Project here:

https://www.qubes-os.org/donate/

However, please note that we do not implement specific features based on donations:

https://www.qubes-os.org/donate/#do-donors-get-personalized-support-or-special-feature-requests

[andrewdavidwong]

In this day and age where crowfunding campaigns are started for stranded cats and what not...

Can we have an estimate budget on how much it would cost to hire devs who could start working on the win10 VM so we can start testing? I'll happily be the first to contribute.

Thank you for the great software you provide us!

Thanks for your willingness to contribute! You can read more about donating to the Qubes OS Project here:

https://www.qubes-os.org/donate/

However, please note that we do not implement specific features based on donations:

https://www.qubes-os.org/donate/#do-donors-get-personalized-support-or-special-feature-requests

[andrewdavidwong]

Recent thread: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/qubes-devel/tBqwJmOAJ94/discussion

[andrewdavidwong]

Recent thread: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/qubes-devel/tBqwJmOAJ94/discussion