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Sign upConsider an option to ask for RPC target VM in dom0 #910
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Comment by marmarek on 28 Oct 2014 13:52 UTC
Additionally dom0 know full VM list, so it can be drop-down list, without a risk of information leak.
Discussion:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qubes-users/0lIEQ01gtDA/ajxcuT_GqmsJ
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Comment by marmarek on 28 Oct 2014 13:52 UTC Discussion: |
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Comment by joanna on 31 Oct 2014 12:07 UTC |
marmarek
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Release 3,
Release 2.1 (post R2)
Mar 8, 2015
marmarek
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Release 3.1,
Release 3.0
May 13, 2015
marmarek
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Jul 29, 2015
Closed
Using "Move To Other AppVM" fails poorly if non-existant #1090
marmarek
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Nov 20, 2015
Closed
[UX] have AdminVM manage inter-vm file copying #1443
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bnvk
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Mar 15, 2016
Open
Improving inter-VM file copy / move UX master ticket #1839
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Mar 15, 2016
Closed
Let user specify other destination folders for file copying #1793
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marmarek
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Moving discussion from #2436:
I think the target VM argument should be preserved. There are multiple cases when you want to simply allow action for specific target VM without bothering user with confirmation. For example in 'devel' VM you may want to copy the outcome to some 'testing' VM where you run various tests. You don't want to select 'testing' VM hundreds times a day (you have a script to call qvm-copy-to-vm, or simply call it from shell history), but on the other hand you still may want to occasionally copy some files to a different VM.
This means I wouldn't touch the cases when policy explicitly says 'allow'. If you have policy some-vm $anyvm allow, it means that 'some-vm' VM will be able to learn list of VMs. If you don't want that, do not add such line to the policy.
The case of 'deny' action for existing vs non-existing target VM is easy - error message (if any) should not be blocking.
I should note that policy right now allow also to override target VM choice. You may specify something like:
some-vm $anyvm allow,target=another-vm
Currently it means "whatever existing target VM name (if any) was provided, redirect service to another-vm". Should be: "whaveter target VM name is, redirect service to another-vm". Of course unless earlier rule says otherwise.
The thing to reconsider is what about 'ask' action. There are few cases:
- calling VM provided target VM and it exists (and policy says 'ask')
- calling VM provided target VM and it does not exist (but default action says 'ask')
- calling VM did not provided target VM at all (and default action says 'ask')
Currently each of those cases are handled differently:
- if target VM is provided and it exists you get the confirmation prompt, if it does not exists, you get (blocking) error message
- if target VM is not provided, it is this ticket - user should be prompted to select one
I think non-existing target VM should be treated as no target VM provided at all (still - if the default action is 'ask').
So, we have two things to design:
- what VMs should be listed in the prompt - initial idea was: all whose policy action would be "allow" or "ask".
- (related to above) how to differentiate - if desired at all - between target VM selected in service call and target VM selected by the user in policy prompt - this IMO applies only to 'ask' action - should the policy prompt for specific target differ from prompt without target VM specified? Or maybe both should allow to select target VM, even if caller provided one?
And some UX issue: what should be the default target in that dialog (if any). If called provided one - I think it should be used), but otherwise - anything at all?
/cc @jpouellet
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Moving discussion from #2436: I think the target VM argument should be preserved. There are multiple cases when you want to simply allow action for specific target VM without bothering user with confirmation. For example in 'devel' VM you may want to copy the outcome to some 'testing' VM where you run various tests. You don't want to select 'testing' VM hundreds times a day (you have a script to call qvm-copy-to-vm, or simply call it from shell history), but on the other hand you still may want to occasionally copy some files to a different VM. This means I wouldn't touch the cases when policy explicitly says 'allow'. If you have policy The case of 'deny' action for existing vs non-existing target VM is easy - error message (if any) should not be blocking. I should note that policy right now allow also to override target VM choice. You may specify something like:
Currently it means "whatever existing target VM name (if any) was provided, redirect service to The thing to reconsider is what about 'ask' action. There are few cases:
Currently each of those cases are handled differently:
I think non-existing target VM should be treated as no target VM provided at all (still - if the default action is 'ask'). So, we have two things to design:
And some UX issue: what should be the default target in that dialog (if any). If called provided one - I think it should be used), but otherwise - anything at all? |
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jpouellet
Nov 16, 2016
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A first thought is to have the list of VMs always displayed, and the source-specified intended-target be the initial selection of that dropdown (or in case of text box: have it pre-populated with name of intended target). I don't know how I feel about that though, since I feel like it leads to building a user habit of simply pressing enter whenever source-suggested target exists, and what happens when one day the source is malicious and suggests a different target? User habit is still to press enter! Would they even notice the difference? Likely not...
Therefore, I think handling both "ask" cases (with and without suggested target) as if there were never a suggested target would be a good thing.
Another case we need to consider is an ... ... ask,target=foo rule. Is this even meaningful anymore? If so, which target should win (user specified vs. target=)?
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A first thought is to have the list of VMs always displayed, and the source-specified intended-target be the initial selection of that dropdown (or in case of text box: have it pre-populated with name of intended target). I don't know how I feel about that though, since I feel like it leads to building a user habit of simply pressing enter whenever source-suggested target exists, and what happens when one day the source is malicious and suggests a different target? User habit is still to press enter! Would they even notice the difference? Likely not... Therefore, I think handling both "ask" cases (with and without suggested target) as if there were never a suggested target would be a good thing. Another case we need to consider is an |
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marmarek
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and what happens when one day the source is malicious and suggests a different target? User habit is still to press enter! Would they even notice the difference? Likely not...
The point is to have only subset of VMs there - so it should be impossible to execute "dangerous" operation. Of course for that, someone would need to select which VMs should be there (set policy to 'deny' for others - or even 'deny' by default and 'ask' for a few). And the case you've described is exactly what we currently have - only a confirmation of what calling VM requested. I'm not saying it's the best possible, but not bad either. I think much bigger problem with it is focus stealing (#1166) - it's simple enough to guess when user will press enter and execute some qrexec operation just before...
Another case we need to consider is an
... ... ask,target=foorule. Is this even meaningful anymore? If so, which target should win (user specified vs. target=)?
That's a good question. I'd say in that case, target= means what should be suggested, but the final decision is up to the user. Maybe this is the way to go: have target VM prefilled only when defined as such in policy, otherwise empty by default (even when specified by source VM)?
The point is to have only subset of VMs there - so it should be impossible to execute "dangerous" operation. Of course for that, someone would need to select which VMs should be there (set policy to 'deny' for others - or even 'deny' by default and 'ask' for a few). And the case you've described is exactly what we currently have - only a confirmation of what calling VM requested. I'm not saying it's the best possible, but not bad either. I think much bigger problem with it is focus stealing (#1166) - it's simple enough to guess when user will press enter and execute some qrexec operation just before...
That's a good question. I'd say in that case, |
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jpouellet
Nov 16, 2016
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I think much bigger problem with it is focus stealing
I agree, but my point was that even with perfect focus stealing prevention, pre-populating target in UI according to suggestion from (un-trusted!) rpc source seems to me a bad idea. It conditions users to accept the default, where the default is attacker-controlled.
That's a good question. I'd say in that case, target= means what should be suggested, but the final decision is up to the user.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Maybe this is the way to go: have target VM prefilled only when defined as such [target=] in policy, otherwise empty by default (even when specified by source VM)?
Yes. This sounds to me like the best option.
I agree, but my point was that even with perfect focus stealing prevention, pre-populating target in UI according to suggestion from (un-trusted!) rpc source seems to me a bad idea. It conditions users to accept the default, where the default is attacker-controlled.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Yes. This sounds to me like the best option. |
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boring-stuff
Jan 12, 2017
Hi, I'd like to start on this.
Should I begin with implementing the Qt dialog first, the best place for this looks like guihelpers.py? I'd then integrate it in qrexec-policy and allow an empty target.
Also, should I follow any particular Qt guidelines at all?
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Hi, I'd like to start on this. Also, should I follow any particular Qt guidelines at all? |
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marmarek
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Actually, GTK would be better, as new Qubes Manager would be in GTK, and also it will be more consistent with now default Xfce environment. I think it's better to create separate python file this GUI dialog.
Anyway the overall plan looks ok :)
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Actually, GTK would be better, as new Qubes Manager would be in GTK, and also it will be more consistent with now default Xfce environment. I think it's better to create separate python file this GUI dialog. |
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boring-stuff
Jan 13, 2017
Noted.
I've prototyped the window in glade and am hooking onto the elements via IDs, so that designers can later on change the .glade file without touching the code.
I'd also shoot for a re-usable python class that leverages a gtk combobox listing a subset of the domains, including colored icons.
Question: how's the test strategy here? Are they all integration tests, or are there unit tests as well? How can I add testcases, and run them in a local environment? Are they all in tests, or somewhere else?
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Noted. Question: how's the test strategy here? Are they all integration tests, or are there unit tests as well? How can I add testcases, and run them in a local environment? Are they all in tests, or somewhere else? |
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Thanks for taking this on, @boring-stuff! I've added this to the community-developed feature tracker.
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Thanks for taking this on, @boring-stuff! I've added this to the community-developed feature tracker. |
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Question: how's the test strategy here? Are they all integration tests, or are there unit tests as well? How can I add testcases, and run them in a local environment? Are they all in tests, or somewhere else?
Yes, most tests are there. In Qubes 3.x we have only integration tests, but for Qubes 4.x (for which this feature is targeted), we also have unit tests. Take a look at core3-devel branch, especially here:
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-core-admin/tree/core3-devel/qubes/tests
There is also an API to have tests in other repositories (here - basically expose an endpoint for qubes.tests.extra.for_template), but I think it would be an overkill for this case.
I think at minimum we should have few tests calling qrexec-policy (directly) with various arguments:
- valid source and destination domains, policy action
deny,ask,allow - policy overriding target domain
- various invalid values (service name, destination domain, invalid domain entered by the user etc)
Some existing integration tests (calling this through the whole stack - so from one VM to another):
- https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-core-admin/blob/core3-devel/qubes/tests/int/vm_qrexec_gui.py#L322-L367
- https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-core-admin/blob/core3-devel/qubes/tests/int/vm_qrexec_gui.py#L537-L644
Also, IMO qrexec-policy tool should really belong to qubes-core-admin, not qubes-core-admin-linux repository. I'm going to move it there, but for your convenience you can continue to work on it in the old place.
Also, it's not so easy to have working working Qubes 4.0 installation to test stuff there ;) so you can work on this in Qubes 3.2 - while there are some API changes, should be minimal in this code.
Yes, most tests are there. In Qubes 3.x we have only integration tests, but for Qubes 4.x (for which this feature is targeted), we also have unit tests. Take a look at core3-devel branch, especially here: I think at minimum we should have few tests calling
Some existing integration tests (calling this through the whole stack - so from one VM to another):
Also, IMO qrexec-policy tool should really belong to qubes-core-admin, not qubes-core-admin-linux repository. I'm going to move it there, but for your convenience you can continue to work on it in the old place. |
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boring-stuff
Jan 14, 2017
I understand, thanks for the hints! Is there a way of getting into a simulated environment without using an extra physical machine for this?
As an example, I'd like to use the Gtk equivalent of getting a VM's icon (See this as an example), but when I run it in a VM it fails, since no such icons are installed in the templates. The icons are not even in the same repository, so there's no way to reference them directly.
Another example is trying to import qubes.qubes which fails, since the main python files are under "core" until they get installed at the proper location.
Am I missing some way of setting up a testing environment? This is no blocker btw as I do use stubs for as long as I need to, but it would help...
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I understand, thanks for the hints! Is there a way of getting into a simulated environment without using an extra physical machine for this? As an example, I'd like to use the Gtk equivalent of getting a VM's icon (See this as an example), but when I run it in a VM it fails, since no such icons are installed in the templates. The icons are not even in the same repository, so there's no way to reference them directly. Am I missing some way of setting up a testing environment? This is no blocker btw as I do use stubs for as long as I need to, but it would help... |
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marmarek
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I understand, thanks for the hints! Is there a way of getting into a simulated environment without using an extra physical machine for this?
Generally it's tricky... I haven't tried this for a long time. In theory it's easier for Qubes 4.0 (some unit tests can be run directly from git, so it works). See run-tests script in core3-devel branch.
Some approximation of separate physical machine may be a system started from separate partition or USB disk. Not very convenient, but for some development stage should be ok.
As an example, I'd like to use the Gtk equivalent of getting a VM's icon (See this as an example), but when I run it in a VM it fails, since no such icons are installed in the templates. The icons are not even in the same repository, so there's no way to reference them directly.
You can add appropriate repository, then download artwork and other packages, then install them with rpm -i --nodeps. It's major hack, but for this particular case should work.
Another example is trying to import qubes.qubes which fails, since the main python files are under "core" until they get installed at the proper location.
Similar here. You can do the same with locally built package. But import qubes.qubes, or try to loading qubes.xml will probably try to connect to libvirt, enumerate VMs etc, which will fail in VM. You can try setting dry_run at the beginning of qubes.py, but this mode isn't maintained for a long time...
Generally it's tricky... I haven't tried this for a long time. In theory it's easier for Qubes 4.0 (some unit tests can be run directly from git, so it works). See
You can add appropriate repository, then download artwork and other packages, then install them with
Similar here. You can do the same with locally built package. But |
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jpouellet
Jan 17, 2017
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@boring-stuff Thanks for tackling this. One less item on my personal to-do list :)
Is there a way of getting into a simulated environment without using an extra physical machine for this?
So... partially. I wanted this too for various reasons. I had some success with running Qubes inside Qubes:
- In the outer Qubes, create an HVM vm, and install Qubes on it (advanced tab lets you attach an installer CD ISO).
- You can run only PV VMs inside that inner Qubes instance.
I did not get networking working (because sys-net requires working PCI passthrough of the emulated network device, and AFAIK qemu can't). It was annoying, but still enough for testing things requiring proper inter-VM communication.
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@boring-stuff Thanks for tackling this. One less item on my personal to-do list :)
So... partially. I wanted this too for various reasons. I had some success with running Qubes inside Qubes:
I did not get networking working (because sys-net requires working PCI passthrough of the emulated network device, and AFAIK qemu can't). It was annoying, but still enough for testing things requiring proper inter-VM communication. |
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boring-stuff
Jan 17, 2017
Thanks for the support and answers! I might try the HVM because from now on I'll be mostly blindly coding without it, but it might take some time.
First, a status report: the gtkhelpers.py utility (tests here) now can show a Gtk confirmation window, depending on the parameters source and target (which is None by default).
The core/gtkhelpers.py along with the gtk folder can be copied in the qubes module directly, and plug into it.
Simulated test (in any VM):
- checkout https://github.com/boring-stuff/qubes-core-admin.git
- first comment out
import qubesfromcore/gtkhelpers.py - run
python tests/gtkhelpers.py -wto show a window with dummy entries (icons will default to gnome-foot if not found) - run
python tests/gtkhelpers.py -tto run it as a unittest
Note: the unit tests are quite extensive, but they're not yet integrated in the build process. They don't perform any edit to the configuration whatsoever, but instead mostly use mock classes exactly to avoid that. Also the import should be fixed, depending on the environment in which they're run.
Usage (in a dom0):
from qubes.rpcconfirmation import RPCConfirmationWindow
print RPCConfirmationWindow.confirm_rpc("sys-net", "qubes.Filecopy")
print RPCConfirmationWindow.confirm_rpc("sys-net", "qubes.Filecopy", "sys-firewall")
print RPCConfirmationWindow.confirm_rpc("sys-net", "qubes.Filecopy", "non-existing")
print RPCConfirmationWindow.confirm_rpc("sys-net", "qubes.Filecopy", "sys-net")
The user must/can then select (and eventually override, if target != None) a destination domain and confirm with ok. The function then returns e.g. {'target_name': 'my-vm-name', 'target_id': 5} with a confirmation, and False if cancel is pressed, or the window is closed.
Activities and ToDos
- Create main confirmation window
- Make selection combo searchable
- Display source domain and service name in table-like view
- Render source domain with the colored lock
- The ESC key cancels the dialog
- Fix the Gtk Warning because of ComboBox column hack
- Separate the RPC window in a dedicated module
- Add OK button sensitivity delay after window focus
- Exclude additional VMs from the list, as specified by the
qrexec-policycall (the "deny" case) - Create integration tests for the file transfer
- Integrate the unit tests in the build process
- Integrate in
qrexec-policy(handling thetarget=case as the only case for a prefill)
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Thanks for the support and answers! I might try the HVM because from now on I'll be mostly blindly coding without it, but it might take some time. First, a status report: the gtkhelpers.py utility (tests here) now can show a Gtk confirmation window, depending on the parameters The Simulated test (in any VM):
Note: the unit tests are quite extensive, but they're not yet integrated in the build process. They don't perform any edit to the configuration whatsoever, but instead mostly use mock classes exactly to avoid that. Also the import should be fixed, depending on the environment in which they're run. Usage (in a dom0):
The user must/can then select (and eventually override, if Activities and ToDos
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boring-stuff
Jan 17, 2017
Wait, this should actually affect all of the RPC actions, not just the filecopy, right? Then I'll first change the template and names to be a generic one, before starting with further integration...
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Wait, this should actually affect all of the RPC actions, not just the filecopy, right? Then I'll first change the template and names to be a generic one, before starting with further integration... |
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Wait, this should actually affect all of the RPC actions, not just the filecopy, right?
Yes...
Yes... |
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Updated my previous comment, names and semantic fixed. |
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Generally looks good!
Minor comments:
- can we have more structured message, like source domain and service name in table-like view, for example:
Source qube: <b>%s</b>\n
Action: <b>%s</b>\n
IMO that would make easier to quickly read the important parts.
- target VM name selection should be search-able/filterable - to allow entering VM name by keyboard (or enter few characters, then select from list). You know, some of us have a lot of qubes ;)
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Generally looks good!
IMO that would make easier to quickly read the important parts.
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later: launch GUI part as separate process, inside user session (through d-bus?) - this will be required for GUI domain, where mere setting DISPLAY is not enough
Chosen this option right now - it was just few lines of code.
Chosen this option right now - it was just few lines of code. |
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qubesos-bot
Jun 9, 2017
Automated announcement from builder-github
The package qubes-core-agent_4.0.0-1+deb9u1 has been pushed to the r4.0 testing repository for the Debian stretch template.
To test this update, first enable the testing repository in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/qubes-*.list by uncommenting the line containing stretch-testing, then use the standard update command:
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
qubesos-bot
commented
Jun 9, 2017
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Automated announcement from builder-github The package
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marmarek commentedMar 8, 2015
Reported by marmarek on 28 Oct 2014 13:49 UTC
This would allow for example copy some files out of VM, without telling the VM name of target VM.
In case of filecopy, it would not change user experience - user will still get a single prompt for VM name. In fact it will even simplify some things:
Technically, when source VM sends empty target VM field in service request, qrexec-policy would handle this case and show the prompt, instead of failing the request.
Migrated-From: https://wiki.qubes-os.org/ticket/910