Upcoming Changes to Rakudo.org and Perl6.org/downloads #96
Comments
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I don't want see any changes to perl6.org or rakudo star errata or the rakudo star release process (except perhaps scp to a different destination directory) |
Can you expound the reasons? The changes automate the relevant part of the process entirely, and considering you're resigning after the next 3 releases, the more we automate, the easier it will be for the replacement person to learn the release process. Moreover, the errata is currently missing from the rakudo.org site entirely. I don't fully understand why it's acceptable to show it on perl6.org but not on rakudo.org. |
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One problem is that isn't any clear distinction between what content should be Anyway from the changes above I like:
Not Keen on:
Yes I know you want JSON for your API but it doesn't fit well with the fairly Neither does it fit well in any website repo. I'd rather create a text file I could also create a VERSION file in the root directory of the "rakudo/star" It might also be nice to host Rakudo Star Release Candidates on rakudo.org using a
I'd rather have seen no change there and I don't see much point in refactoring But if you are going to move parts of the download page to rakudo.org why not just In this case at least some simplification is done in only have one download 3 . New Download Page Looking at http://hack.p6c.org:4242/files I still think the rakudo.org main download page should only include Rakudo Yes its there now at http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/#Using-Rakudo but I Neither do I like "Rakudo Compiler Only" being described as "light-weight" And "to install the Rakudo compiler and module manager only" implies the Compiler |
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Generally I like what I see here. Pretty sure we'll tweak some details, and it's ok if later we change our mind on things. But IMO right now the plan can be executed as is and it'll be a huge win. |
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I agree with @AlexDaniel. @zoffixznet's current approach is much better than what we have now, mostly in terms of:
I'm opposed to fudging the lines between Rakudo and Perl 6 too much; if we do, Rakudo will stay the only implementation, and projects like Niecza will be greatly discouraged. Right now the priority should be get things set up by the time that the old rakudo.org goes down; @zoffixznet if you need any help on the infrastructure side (apache config, letsencrypt, Debian stuff, whatever), please let me know and I'll try my best to help. |
I'm 👍 on nuking rakudo.org's content entirely and having all the download info on perl6.org only. I know @pmichaud mentioned in the past that they worked hard to keep compiler v.s language distinction. I don't know whether @pmichaud would agree to this change and I see @moritz above said he's 👎 on it. To me, this sort of move doesn't really appear to significantly impact other potential implementations. If anything ever appears that has usable binaries for download, we can then easily modify the downloads page to include all implementations.
That works. Preferably in markdown, so it can just be converted to HTML and inserted into the site.
Don't have a strong opinion on that other than it might be too disorienting for users to end up on a different site entirely. Which makes the case for moving all download info for perl6.org. I'm 👍 on that; dunno about others. |
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On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 04:20:21PM +0000, Zoffix Znet wrote:
> I don't see much point in having two websites while there is only one implementation of perl 6.
I'm :+1: on nuking rakudo.org's content entirely and having all the download info on perl6.org only.
I know @pmichaud mentioned in the past that they worked hard to keep
compiler v.s language distinction. I don't know whether @pmichaud would
agree to this change and I see @moritz above said he's 👎 on it.
I'm strongly with Moritz and others that we want to avoid blurring the lines between the language and implementation. I know that to many people it seems like an unnecessary distinction as long as there's only one implementation. But whenever that distinction is lost or blurred, we seriously risk becoming a culture that builds tools and infrastructure based on the assumption of a single implementation. That provides short-term shortcuts at the cost of (often unknown) long-term limitations and restrictions that are hard to overcome later.
Also, @moritz correctly points out that when people start equivalencing "Rakudo" and "Perl 6" we make it much more likely that Rakudo will be the only implementation of Perl 6. It can be a very subtle and pernicious effect that is hard to see until later.
All of that said, I think it's entirely plausible to have rakudo information hosted as a subsection of perl6.org, as long as the language/compiler distinction can be maintained. (The rakudo.org address could then redirect to that subsection.) In particular, I'd want to make sure there's a clear understanding of how other implementations would be hosted under the perl6.org domain, if that's the way it's to be done.
Perhaps a way to blaze the trail for this is to also include subsections on perl6.org for Pugs, Niecza, and any other implementations (past or present) that are analogues to the subsection being create for Rakudo, even if those other subsections are simply historical reviews and details of the implementations.
So, if the distinction can be maintained, I don't see that there *must* be a separate rakudo.org, but if it looks like things are gettin blurry, a separate rakudo.org (with a better factoring between perl6.org and rakudo.org) is probably the way to go. And at least for a short time I suspect it's okay to try one and switch to the other if it looks like there are complications arising from it.
Hope this helps,
Pm
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Ok, then:
So that'll let us preview all that bunch of changes at once and then decide if it should go live. |
+1
I would argue against this. Having dead implementations next to the only active one is way more confusing than all the confusion we already have. I would suggest a "history" link/tab or something similar. |
I have a mental picture for how to weave it all in reasonably on one page. Let's just wait until the demo is available before bikeshedding that portion of the changes. |
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@zoffixznet, challenge accepted :) |
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@pmichaud new rakudo.org is good to go. All you need to do is change the IPs for the domain to The app is already running. You can view most of it at http://perl6.org:4242/ but all the rewrites from old URLs won't work until the URL is Also copied all of the content from original site, despite originally planning to leave behind old blog posts. If you have any questions, ping me on IRC. Note: I'll be on vacation and likely unreachable from March 24 through April 4. If there are any problems with the site, its code is in the perl6/rakudo.org repo and its Once the domain's switched, I'll force HTTPS. @stmuk I left you a robo message |
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Great job. And have fun and relax during the holidays.
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@pmichaud pinging a reminder. The old rakudo.org hosting will expire in 6 days. Let's swap the domains. |
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This is done. |
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Thanks you @zoffixznet! |
Since there's been apparent confusion on what changes the upcoming rakudo.org migration will bring, this document describes them in full.
The changes concern rakudo.org website in its entirety and download-related pages on perl6.org (home banner; main downloads page; recently-added "others" download page).
Table of Contents
Changes to rakudo.org
The preview of changes is available on UNFINISHED PREVIEW DEMO SITE at perl6.org:4242. Any particular current behaviour and content of the demo site is not indicative of the behaviour and content on the final site.
Bug tracker,Community,Documentation, andHow to helphas been rewritten, with consideration that most of it is now available in expanded and up-to-date version on perl6.org/docs.perl6.org websites. The demo shows new, abridged versions of the content.Bug trackerno longer offers RT as the primary tracker. Due to huge amount of spam and poor interface RT is falling out of favour, which is why the GitHub Issue tracker is now listed as the primary tracker. The RT is listed as a fallback option for users who don't have a GitHub account and as the "old tracker" with still-open tickets.Aboutpage has been removed. The only info which it contains that isn't already clear from other pages of the site is the licensing version, which is available from LICENSE file in download options.Rakudo.org Download Page Changes
These changes concern the download page on http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ NOT https://perl6.org/downloads/
Star releases
API Endpoint
And API endpoint will be added that will offer a programatic way to obtain:
Release Management Changes
From the current release guide:
upload to rakudo.orgwill be removedPulicize on rakudo.org,Publicize on http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo, andPublicize on http://perl6.org/will be removedThe sites will obtain that information automatically from the release guide in the repo and binaries uploaded to
www.p6c.orgChanges to perl6.org
UPDATE: per discussion below, all perl6.org changes are deferred until a later point in time
3rd Party Packagessidebar on main downloads page will be removed, together with the "others" download page, content of which will be moved to rakudo.orgThe text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: