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New flag for Uyghur language #1789

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BaksiLi opened this Issue Feb 19, 2019 · 14 comments

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@BaksiLi
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commented Feb 19, 2019

As posted by Leolaaziano on the wall:

Recently, I have noticed that the language flag for Uyghur language is this, which seemed truly terrifying to me. This symbol was the proposed flag for 'East Turkestan', which was a terrorist proto-state that not a country on Earth had ever recognised. It is NOT the flag of Xinjiang Province where most of the Uyghur people lived, nor a globally recognisable flag for the nation/language. This would have the same implication from using the flag of ISIS for the Arabic language.

I am afraid that using this symbol would hurt the feeling of many Chinese people, as well as Uyghur people who always wish peace on their homeland.

Therefore, I strongly advice you to change the flag, and if possible, to flags like . It has more natural meanings and, more importantly, not biased.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/31358#message_31358

I have made a new one like this:

uig

the font used is Thabit, which is free.

@BaksiLi BaksiLi changed the title New flags for Uyghur language New flag for Uyghur language Feb 19, 2019

This was referenced Feb 19, 2019

@RyckRichards

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commented Feb 19, 2019

@cueyayotl what do you think about this? Can we go ahead and merge it?

@soliloquist-tatoeba

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commented Feb 19, 2019

I don't think you would find any Uyghurs agreeing the change of the current flag, but I accept that some Chinese people may find it a threat to their 'national unity'. While Muslims are the easiest target in the current zeitgeist, they might want to change the Tibetan flag used on Tatoeba, too, if possible. It's also banned in China according to Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Tibet

Btw, the Uyghur flag was adopted in 1933. Linking it with the ISIS flag is pure propaganda.

Anyway, If the Uyghur flag is going to be changed, I suggest using 'UIG' (the ISO code for Uyghur) on a blue background. It's more universal and not all Uyghurs use the Arabic script.

https://prnt.sc/mnc7ea

Also, if the Uyghur flag is replaced and the Kabyle (MAK) flag stays, that will be just one big double standard.

@BaksiLi

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commented Feb 19, 2019

Mr @soliloquist-tatoeba says:

I don't think you would find any Uyghurs agreeing the change of the current flag, but I accept that some Chinese people may find it a threat to their 'national unity'. While Muslims are the easiest target in the current zeitgeist, they might want to change the Tibetan flag used on Tatoeba, too, if possible. It's also banned in China according to Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Tibet

Btw, the Uyghur flag was adopted in 1933. Linking it with the ISIS flag is pure propaganda.

Anyway, If the Uyghur flag is going to be changed, I suggest using 'UIG' (the ISO code for Uyghur) on a blue background. It's more universal and not all Uyghurs use the Arabic script.

https://prnt.sc/mnc7ea

Also, if the Uyghur flag is replaced and the Kabyle (MAK) flag stays, that will be just one big double standard.

I respectfully disagree. This flag was only adopted once by a proto-state, that no countries on earth have ever recognised it as a legitimate country.
Therefore, I must conclude that it is a disregard of generality to use this flag for the entire group of people, esp. when they are hoping peace on their lands. Again, this blue flag is NOT a publicly recognised symbol of the nation/language, nor the flag of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

If as you said, it is Chinese people's intention to target muslim, then I think you completely misunderstood the situation. There are more than 20,000,000 people in China – not living in a single province, but over the entire country – who are Muslim; they are Chinese, and most of them are Chinese since a thousand years ago. How could Chinese people targeting themselves?
I would assert that the saying 'Muslims are the easiest target in the current zeitgeist' is truly racist. Nobody else is making such discrimination but this opinion-holders.

In conclusion, I would insist using this flag:

@BaksiLi

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commented Feb 19, 2019

One could easily check from Policy paper: Proscribed terrorist groups or organisations, page 18.

It states clearly that 'East Turkistan' is a Terrorist Organisation. This public policy paper is a public document by UK government, available on gov.uk.

TIP has been banned by the UN and is also sanctioned by the USA under the Terrorist Exclusion list.

I am not exaggerating at all. They are friends of ISIS, they kill innocent people in Xinjiang, while most of the victims were Uyghurs.

I believe it is an 'authentic' voice of English-speaking countries as well as many other sovereigns in the world.

@soliloquist-tatoeba

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commented Feb 19, 2019

I'm not an Uyghur and I won't personally prolong the discussion, but I sent e-mails to some Uyghur websites to inform them of the issue.

https://uyghuramerican.org/

https://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/

I also sent PMs to some Tatoeba users who list Uyghur on their profiles.

So, some Uyghurs may also join the discussion in the future (if they read my message and are interested). I hope this will also increase contributions in the Uyghur language as a positive side effect. That was the case with the Berber-Kabyle issue. Such debates tend to boost contributions. It's good to look on the bright side of things.

@trang trang added the lang-request label Feb 24, 2019

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commented Mar 26, 2019

@sabretou what do you think?

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commented Mar 26, 2019

On Tatoeba, we have used unofficial, cultural flag icons frequently on Tatoeba. Our goal with using a flag as an icon on Tatoeba should be to maximise potential users.

Tatoeba is apolitical not in the interests of 'political fairness', but in the interests of its own expansion. It is not Tatoeba's objective to mediate political conflicts, but to promote language learning.

In this particular case, I have not seen any credible evidence so far that the flag we are using on Tatoeba is directly linked to a terrorist organisation.

However, I am still in favour of changing it. The reason I think it should be changed is that the flag is unacceptable in China, which is where the majority of Uighur speakers are based. As such, the use of this flag could discourage a number of Uighur users and learners from contributing to Tatoeba.

I believe the best solution to this issue is to adopt a 'neutral' flag, i.e. to have the flag code on a white field, similar to Kashmiri.

I am also in favour of applying the same solution to Tibetan.

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commented Mar 26, 2019

Normally, I wouldn't take part in this discussion any longer, but seeing no Uyghurs came (perhaps they didn't even read my email - they're probably dealing with thousands of spam mails every day), I want to add a few more words.

  • The Uyghur flag used on Tatoeba is older than the current flag of PRC.

  • Linking it with terrorism is untrue.
    Impersonator gave a good example for this faulty logic.
    https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/31370#message_31370

  • It's banned in China (like the Tibetan flag). These photos clearly show the aggressive flag policy on the Uyghur land.

https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Red-flags-on-display-in-a-market-in-the-city-of-Turpan.jpeg

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/separated-09132018132251.html/uyghur-children4-091318.jpg/@@images/2be3aa2c-9bbb-4b62-81ef-6790398d41b0.jpeg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2017/12/17/14/wire-1924764-1513521495-204_634x422.jpg

Even narrow streets are full of PRC flags.

  • Most Uyghurs see this flag as their ethnic symbol, but it's almost impossible to get the opinions of Uyghurs living in PRC as it's dangerous for them.

I object to the proposed flags on the first message. A black-and-white flag with some Arabic script on a plain background looks more like the flags used by extremist/terrorist groups.

Flag of Taliban
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Flag_of_Taliban.svg/1280px-Flag_of_Taliban.svg.png

Flags of ISIS and Al-Qaeda
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/ECJXPH/islamic-state-isis-or-isil-is-an-unrecognized-state-and-a-sunni-jihadist-ECJXPH.jpg

Flag of Al-Nusra Front
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Flag_of_Jabhat_Fatah_al-Sham.svg/1200px-Flag_of_Jabhat_Fatah_al-Sham.svg.png

When it comes to terrorism, this style is the most popular. Those people don't like other colors and symbols much. Also, many neo-nazi symbols and the famous pirate flag is b&w. What I'm trying to say is that using black and white doesn't necessarily guarantee neutrality.

If the Uyghur flag is going to be replaced, I suggest preserving the background color (see my first message). Light blue is a common color on Turkic flags (Kazakhstan, Crimean Tatars, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan etc.). It symbolizes their Turkic identiy which isn't something to be neutralized but a fact. The flag used for Arabic on Tatoeba has a green background, too. Just removing the symbolism should be sufficient. Why censoring the color? Will China sue Tatoeba for picking an 'unacceptable' color? We should at least have that much respect for Uyghurs. Seeing their language with a plain b&w flag among other colorful flags would demotivate most people.

@soliloquist-tatoeba

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commented Mar 26, 2019

On the wall, Porfiriy gave some valuable information about the issue. I want to copy it here, too.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/31369#message_31369

I am neither Uyghur nor Chinese but I have spent considerable time in the Uyghur homeland and am a speaker of Uyghur.

This is a sticky situation that has many layers and will most certainly leave no-one satisfied. It is extremely difficult to approach this issue without any bias, and I include myself in that judgement. Just wanted to get that out there.

The current flag for the Uyghur language is the flag of the First East Turkestan Republic - more detail here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_East_Turkestan_Republic . I personally believe (NB, with my own personal biases in mind) that the original poster's conflation of the use of this flag with the principles of ISIS is wildly exaggerated. The ETR was founded in the wake of the political chaos that ensued when the governor of the region was assassinated and replaced by an incompetent official. It was formed in the wake of a populist rebellion that was highly motivated by the feeling that aggressive Sinicization policies were a threat to local Muslim identity.

To conflate today's ISIS with the ETR would be an anachronistic retconning of modern principles to the 1930s. Was there religious violence in the ETR, the imposition of Sharia law? Absolutely. But this violence truly is not very distinct when compared to other violent conflicts that were going all over in China at the time - the 1930s were pure chaos. The ETR may be better understood as simply one part of the political, cultural, and military boil that the whole area of China was undergoing.

Moreover, the logic really doesn't hold. The violence or moral indignation that a symbol may elicit in others really doesn't necessarily justify the removal of the symbol. After all, aren't their plenty of people who are morally outraged at the millions of people who died of starvation in the Great Leap Forward or were murdered in the Cultural Revolution, under the very flag that is used to represent Mandarin today? Aren't their plenty of righteously indignant Taiwanese Mandarin speakers who have claim to outrage at the PRC's flag representing Mandarin? This reasoning I'm putting forward here is deliberately flawed - an example of how outrage doesn't necessarily justify a removal.

The modern-day East Turkestan Islamic Movement is indeed a terrorist organization that uses a blue flag with the cresent and moon as well as the shahada written across the top. The first observation to make is that this flag is absolutely not the flag being used on Tatoeba. They draw from the same symbolism, but they are different. The co-opting of a symbol by a despised, despicable group does not necessarily delegitmize the symbol. After all, the ISIS flag has the shada - but so does the flag of Saudi Arabia and Iran. Should we kindly ask Saudi and Iranian embassies to remove their flag because of their offensive symbolism? Should Tatoeba change its current symbol for Persian? Going down this route really blurs the line between "evil terrorists" and "Muslims in general."

It is worth noting that the Uyghur flag, currently used by Tatoeba, has been adopted by the completely peaceful, non-terrorist Uyghur diaspora as a symbol of ethnic pride (see https://uyghuramerican.org/sites/default/files/field/image/Uyghur-anti-China-protest-outside-White-House-July-10-2009-Malcolm-Brown.jpg ). Its often seen at protests in the West and in Turkey against the treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang, which has been quite bad of late (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/asia/china-uighur-muslim-detention-camp.html ). That being said, the flag is legitimately a cultural, if not political symbol of a large number of Uyghurs in the diaspora. Why the diaspora? The flag is illegal in Xinjiang. If you have one and display it, you will get in trouble, pronto. Basically, the answer to the question "does this flag legimately represent the linguistic community as far as Tatoeba is concerned" can't be answered because most Uyghurs on the planet could not even give a frank answer.

As others have pointed out, this situation is also difficult because of the use of the Tibetan flag for the Tibetan language on this site. The exact same principles apply to Tibet as to Xinjiang - an ethnic group with aspirations to nationhood that indeed was a separate nation at the time of the ETR, which eventually became a part of the PRC. The Tibetan flag is also banned in China and displaying it will get a Tibetan detained. It is used extensively in the Tibetan diaspora community and is the flag of the Tibetan government-in-exile in Dharamsala. I believe that most Chinese are less offended by the Tibetan flag because there is no "global Islamic terrorism" narrative that the Tibetans can be shoved into, and because there is this alternative Richard Gere-esque "peaceful, serene Buddhists" narrative that is easy to buy into for both Chinese and Westerners alike. As an interesting side note, there as an armed Tibetan rebellion in 1959 in which 2000 Chinese died, so if the original poster is offended by the questionable connections between the Uyghur flag and ISIS then he should be equally offended by the Tibetan flag as well.

Soliloquist, I see you made a good faith effort to get in touch with the Uyghur American Organization and the Uyghur Congress regarding the flag, motivated by the idea to get more Uyghurs into the picture. I can tell you before you even respond that two things will happen: first, both these organizations will answer affirmatively that the flag represents their community. As I said, the symbol has been adopted by the diaspora and many people in these organizations are people who deliberately fled China to escape perspecution. Second, Chinese users will not accept their answers as in China these organizations are depicted as US puppet/shadow organizations that are hell bent on the destruction of the PRC.

Okay, enough of that. I hope this information helps and contextualizes things. I believe I'm being accurate when I say that Tatoeba ultimately does not care about politics and only wants the flags to be representative of the linguistic community. What I add here is that when it comes to the Uyghurs, you can't separate politics from representativeness. There is a community of diaspora Uyghurs who will say this flag is theirs, and a much, much larger community of Uyghurs in China who have no say on the matter.

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commented Mar 29, 2019

Hello! I'm Impersonator, and I'd like to chip in and voice my opinion.

From what I've heard about the situation in PRC, Uyghurs from Xinjiang are very unlikely to contribute to Tatoeba anyway. Using Uyghur language is considered unpatriotic, and contacting foreigners lowers Uyghur's social credit and is likely to end them in a 'transformation through education' concentration camp. Uyghur people are required to install spyware called Jingwang that monitors the websites they visit. Contributing to Tatoeba in Uyghur is downright dangerous in Xinjiang, so flag change is very unlikely to affect the contributions in Uyghur from Xinjiang people in any way.

That the flag change will do, in my opinion, is:

  • Legitimize the PRC's idea that Uyghur symbols are somehow intrinstically linked to terrorism.
  • Increase the likehood of finding Mandarin contributors from PRC.
  • Perhaps decrease the likehood of finding Uyghur contributors from diaspora.

I personally hope that the flag will remain. If choosing between Mandarin and Uyghur, I hope Tatoeba will choose Uyghur. Mandarin has quite a lot of proponents without Tatoeba, it has big government backing it up. Not so for Uyghur. If projects like Tatoeba don't choose Uyghur when forced with a dilemma 'Uyghur or Mandarin?', then who will?

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commented Mar 31, 2019

Normally, I wouldn't take part in this discussion any longer, but seeing no Uyghurs came (perhaps they didn't even read my email - they're probably dealing with thousands of spam mails every day), I want to add a few more words.

  • The Uyghur flag used on Tatoeba is older than the current flag of PRC.
  • Linking it with terrorism is untrue.
    Impersonator gave a good example for this faulty logic.
    https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/31370#message_31370
  • It's banned in China (like the Tibetan flag). These photos clearly show the aggressive flag policy on the Uyghur land.

https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Red-flags-on-display-in-a-market-in-the-city-of-Turpan.jpeg

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/separated-09132018132251.html/uyghur-children4-091318.jpg/@@images/2be3aa2c-9bbb-4b62-81ef-6790398d41b0.jpeg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2017/12/17/14/wire-1924764-1513521495-204_634x422.jpg

Even narrow streets are full of PRC flags.

  • Most Uyghurs see this flag as their ethnic symbol, but it's almost impossible to get the opinions of Uyghurs living in PRC as it's dangerous for them.

I object to the proposed flags on the first message. A black-and-white flag with some Arabic script on a plain background looks more like the flags used by extremist/terrorist groups.

Flag of Taliban
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Flag_of_Taliban.svg/1280px-Flag_of_Taliban.svg.png

Flags of ISIS and Al-Qaeda
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/ECJXPH/islamic-state-isis-or-isil-is-an-unrecognized-state-and-a-sunni-jihadist-ECJXPH.jpg

Flag of Al-Nusra Front
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Flag_of_Jabhat_Fatah_al-Sham.svg/1200px-Flag_of_Jabhat_Fatah_al-Sham.svg.png

When it comes to terrorism, this style is the most popular. Those people don't like other colors and symbols much. Also, many neo-nazi symbols and the famous pirate flag is b&w. What I'm trying to say is that using black and white doesn't necessarily guarantee neutrality.

If the Uyghur flag is going to be replaced, I suggest preserving the background color (see my first message). Light blue is a common color on Turkic flags (Kazakhstan, Crimean Tatars, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan etc.). It symbolizes their Turkic identiy which isn't something to be neutralized but a fact. The flag used for Arabic on Tatoeba has a green background, too. Just removing the symbolism should be sufficient. Why censoring the color? Will China sue Tatoeba for picking an 'unacceptable' color? We should at least have that much respect for Uyghurs. Seeing their language with a plain b&w flag among other colorful flags would demotivate most people.

Normally, I wouldn't take part in this discussion any longer, but seeing no Uyghurs came (perhaps they didn't even read my email - they're probably dealing with thousands of spam mails every day), I want to add a few more words.

  • The Uyghur flag used on Tatoeba is older than the current flag of PRC.
  • Linking it with terrorism is untrue.
    Impersonator gave a good example for this faulty logic.
    https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/31370#message_31370
  • It's banned in China (like the Tibetan flag). These photos clearly show the aggressive flag policy on the Uyghur land.

https://bitterwinter.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Red-flags-on-display-in-a-market-in-the-city-of-Turpan.jpeg

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/separated-09132018132251.html/uyghur-children4-091318.jpg/@@images/2be3aa2c-9bbb-4b62-81ef-6790398d41b0.jpeg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2017/12/17/14/wire-1924764-1513521495-204_634x422.jpg

Even narrow streets are full of PRC flags.

  • Most Uyghurs see this flag as their ethnic symbol, but it's almost impossible to get the opinions of Uyghurs living in PRC as it's dangerous for them.

I object to the proposed flags on the first message. A black-and-white flag with some Arabic script on a plain background looks more like the flags used by extremist/terrorist groups.

Flag of Taliban
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/24/Flag_of_Taliban.svg/1280px-Flag_of_Taliban.svg.png

Flags of ISIS and Al-Qaeda
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/ECJXPH/islamic-state-isis-or-isil-is-an-unrecognized-state-and-a-sunni-jihadist-ECJXPH.jpg

Flag of Al-Nusra Front
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Flag_of_Jabhat_Fatah_al-Sham.svg/1200px-Flag_of_Jabhat_Fatah_al-Sham.svg.png

When it comes to terrorism, this style is the most popular. Those people don't like other colors and symbols much. Also, many neo-nazi symbols and the famous pirate flag is b&w. What I'm trying to say is that using black and white doesn't necessarily guarantee neutrality.

If the Uyghur flag is going to be replaced, I suggest preserving the background color (see my first message). Light blue is a common color on Turkic flags (Kazakhstan, Crimean Tatars, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan etc.). It symbolizes their Turkic identiy which isn't something to be neutralized but a fact. The flag used for Arabic on Tatoeba has a green background, too. Just removing the symbolism should be sufficient. Why censoring the color? Will China sue Tatoeba for picking an 'unacceptable' color? We should at least have that much respect for Uyghurs. Seeing their language with a plain b&w flag among other colorful flags would demotivate most people.

My honourable friend, I agree with your suggestion of using tint blue as the background.

However, showing that something is banned in a sovereign country doesn't says anything about its legitimacy.

And, as there are no laws against the use of this flag in China, I would consider it an 'unpopularity' rather than 'ban'. From the journal I have seen in Chinese, it was only shown in the picture of terrorism happened in Xinjiang, which enforces its association with it. This the a fact, just as people would associate fried chicken with black minorities in the US and prevent using it.

In conclusion, your suggestion is appropriate. Notwithstanding our points, we should consider replacing it to weaken this bad association.

new

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commented Mar 31, 2019

Hello! I'm Impersonator, and I'd like to chip in and voice my opinion.

From what I've heard about the situation in PRC, Uyghurs from Xinjiang are very unlikely to contribute to Tatoeba anyway. Using Uyghur language is considered unpatriotic, and contacting foreigners lowers Uyghur's social credit and is likely to end them in a 'transformation through education' concentration camp. Uyghur people are required to install spyware called Jingwang that monitors the websites they visit. Contributing to Tatoeba in Uyghur is downright dangerous in Xinjiang, so flag change is very unlikely to affect the contributions in Uyghur from Xinjiang people in any way.

That the flag change will do, in my opinion, is:

  • Legitimize the PRC's idea that Uyghur symbols are somehow intrinstically linked to terrorism.
  • Increase the likehood of finding Mandarin contributors from PRC.
  • Perhaps decrease the likehood of finding Uyghur contributors from diaspora.

I personally hope that the flag will remain. If choosing between Mandarin and Uyghur, I hope Tatoeba will choose Uyghur. Mandarin has quite a lot of proponents without Tatoeba, it has big government backing it up. Not so for Uyghur. If projects like Tatoeba don't choose Uyghur when forced with a dilemma 'Uyghur or Mandarin?', then who will?

  • Uyghur is recognised as an official language for the government as well as education.
  • There are official broadcasting channels that use only Uyghur language, please refer to this.
  • Uyghur is taught to other ethnic groups in Xinjiang as a second language, for example No.1 Senior High School of Ürümqi.

I fully consent your feeling. However, whether to change the flag is not a zero-sum game, but a choice for 'the interests of its own expansion', as @sabretou noted.

Mandarin, as a language of the most native speaker in the world, is attracting more and more learners. This means speakers of English, Russian as well as many other languages will learn Chinese as their second language, which enables Tatoeba (a powerful tool for language learning and referencing) to gain more influences and more users.

Notice that China also has the most speakers of Esperanto – one of the most used language on Tatoeba, which has no government backup – who contribute to Tatoeba everyday.

To be honest, I see no profit in favouring any of these languages.

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commented Mar 31, 2019

Hello! Thank you for your answer. Unfortunately, it doesn't really convince me.

Uyghur is recognised as an official language for the government as well as education.

The official recognition doesn't tell much. In the Soviet Union, Belarusian was an official language in Belarus, but it was actively discouraged nevertheless.

Also, the information from 2010 is outdated. The change of policy is a relatively modern one: replacing Uyghur with Mandarin started in 2017, Uyghur re-education camps were only establised in 2014.

The changes rarely happen overnight: the language is not erased immediately. What is important is dynamics: is the language encouraged or discouraged, how the numbers change, etc.

There are official broadcasting channels that use only Uyghur language, please refer to this.

The fact that some content is being created in a language doesn't tell much about the place of the language in the public life. For example, North Korea has a website in Japanese, but that doesn't mean Japanese is welcome there. So the fact that there was an interview with Dilraba Dilmurat hardly tells us much.

Of course, it's great that interviews like that with Dilraba Dilmurat are being shot. But the question is: how much? How much is being aired in Uyghur as compared to Chinese, how much is being aired now as compared to 2010, etc.

Also, the interview with Dilraba Dilmurat seems undated (but my Uyghur is bad — if the date is mentioned, could you please tell at what second?), but the video mentions the 2013 drama Anarhan (ئانارخان 阿娜尔罕), and the end of the video mentions Swords of Legends (古剑奇谭), a TV series from 2014. So I assume the video is from around 2013 or 2014. The policy to erase Uyghur from the public life is a recent one, so 2014 videos don't offer much information about the current state of things.

Uyghur is taught to other ethnic groups in Xinjiang as a second language, for example No.1 Senior High School of Ürümqi.

Again, the question is how many schools are like this. The fact that Uyghur is taught somewhere doesn't give much of a picture: the policy change is a relatively recent, and you can't wipe out the language in a day — it takes some time to do that. What is important is the dynamics, and from what I've read, in most schools it's being removed, and after switch to Mandarin many Uyghur students' grades declined. The fact that a single school might have kept Uyghur doesn't tell much, alas.

From the journal I have seen in Chinese, it was only shown in the picture of terrorism happened in Xinjiang, which enforces its association with it. This the a fact, just as people would associate fried chicken with black minorities in the US and prevent using it.

I find the comparison with racism curious, and I think we shouldn't cater to people's racist stereotypes (by somehow removing things related to black people). Instead, we should combat racism and harmful stereotypes.

I think the same applies to Uyghurs: we shouldn't cater to people's misconceptions about Uyghurs (and Muslims in general). Instead, we should combat these stereotypes, not to play along with them.

@soliloquist-tatoeba

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commented Apr 2, 2019

And, as there are no laws against the use of this flag in China, I would consider it an 'unpopularity' rather than 'ban'. From the journal I have seen in Chinese, it was only shown in the picture of terrorism happened in Xinjiang, which enforces its association with it. This the a fact, just as people would associate fried chicken with black minorities in the US and prevent using it.

Dear Chinese-speaking Esperantist friend, I'm relieved to hear that. If that's true, then there's no valid reason or urgent need for change. After all, that's not Algerians' or Turks' decision to make but Uyghurs' whether this flag is unpopular or not, whether it represents them or not. I think we should leave it up to them.

I also liked your comparison of changing the Uyghur flag and avoiding fried chicken, but there's one difference. The latter is just a personal choice while the former is not.

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