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Restore campaign weapon ranges from 3.1. #399

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merged 2 commits into from Jun 25, 2019

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@KJeff01
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commented Jun 22, 2019

Like #387 for multiplayer, this PR restores the campaign weapon ranges from 3.1. Minus the Nexus links which don't need range differences.

@maxsupermanhd

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commented Jun 22, 2019

Isnt this absolutely what i made? I cant find difference...

@Forgon2100

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commented Jun 22, 2019

Isnt this absolutely what i made? I cant find difference...

We have two different sets of stats, in separate directories:

The reason we use different stats is that the campaign was originally
created by developers who may not have had enough time to test it, and
released it with a weapon balance that was not well-suited to MP games,
and vice versa.
To keep the campaign enjoyable without rewriting it from scratch, we
must preserve its distinct stats.
Otherwise, it would probably not be possible to play it successfully
using different kinds of weapon combinations, and the difficulty of
its missions might vary enormously.

Edited on request of past-due, who objected to me calling people
"inexperienced".

@highlander1599

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commented Jun 22, 2019

For the following weapons, longHit is higher than shortHit and makes no sense for these cases in my eyes
AAGun2Mk1
Cyb-Wpn-Atmiss
CyborgRocket
QuadMg1AAGun
QuadRotAAGun
Rocket-BB
Rocket-HvyA-T
Rocket-LtA-T
Rocket-VTOL-BB
Rocket-VTOL-HvyA-T
Rocket-VTOL-LtA-T

BabaFlame, Flame1Mk1 shortHit 90 --> longhit 40 with one tile difference is a too big step
CyborgFlamer01 shortHit 80 --> longhit 40 with one tile difference is a too big step

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commented Jun 22, 2019

With all of the changes taking place replacing range and balance back to what they were.
Would it be proper to make skirmish and mutli player the same as campaign balance.

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commented Jun 22, 2019

Edited on request of past-due, who objected to me calling people
"inexperienced".

The concern is: commenting on people when arguing code / design decisions.

I would encourage everyone to review the "Our Standards" section of the Code of Conduct for GitHub.

A spirited discussion about balance / design decisions is well worth having.

@KJeff01

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commented Jun 22, 2019

Isnt this absolutely what i made? I cant find difference...

The campaign and multiplayer stats differ vastly. It's important to remember campaign is more about fighting a medium-difficulty non-adaptive AI, bases/defenses, and a timer. As such, the game-play and balance likely is meant to be different. I won't contest multiplayer does many things better though. Campaign stats are rarely touched.

For the following weapons, longHit is higher than shortHit and makes no sense for these cases in my eyes ...

These weapons have the same design decisions in multiplayer.

For the rockets/missiles I don't think it's a bad thing, though. The original devs had the same thinking I did: rockets/missiles lose accuracy the closer they get to the target. It comes down to that the most
optimal usage of rockets/missiles is supposed to be at long range. If a slow weapon, like a cannon, can catch up to the often very fast rocket/missile weapons, then it makes sense for the cannon
to gain a decent advantage over the frail rocket/missile in the accuracy department.

Flamers probably do this for necessity. My guess why is because, in campaign, these weapons bar the scavenger variant have such a low ROF (but high damage) that the original thought was to almost make sure it hits at a 2-3 tile range. Campaign flamers are already so weak... I don't think changing their accuracy makes a difference unless the ROF is much higher and the damage is nerfed (like we did in the camBalance mod). But, if I had to think of something better, then I'd go with long_hit = short_hit - 25.

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commented Jun 22, 2019

For the following weapons, longHit is higher than shortHit and makes no sense for these cases in my eyes ...

These weapons have the same design decisions in multiplayer.

For the rockets/missiles I don't think it's a bad thing, though. The original devs had the same thinking I did: rockets/missiles lose accuracy the closer they get to the target. It comes down to that the most optimal usage of rockets/missiles is supposed to be at long range. If a slow weapon, like a cannon, can catch up to the often very fast rocket/missile weapons, then it makes sense for the cannon to gain a decent advantage over the frail rocket/missile in the accuracy department.

We had a similar discussion in the forum a few week ago here. And I'm still of the opinion that for unguided direct firing weapons shortHit should be higher than longHit. The longer an unguided projectile is flying the bigger gets the deviation from the target. For guided weapons like missiles it makes sense to have longHit higher than shortHit because they need some space to correct their flight direction. But rockets are more like bigger MG bullets. In my comment I only called those weapons where longHit > shortHit makes no sense in my eyes.

Flamers probably do this for necessity. My guess why is because, in campaign, these weapons bar the scavenger variant have such a low ROF (but high damage) that the original thought was to almost make sure it hits at a 2-3 tile range. Campaign flamers are already so weak... I don't think changing their accuracy makes a difference unless the ROF is much higher and the damage is nerfed (like we did in the camBalance mod). But, if I had to think of something better, then I'd go with long_hit = short_hit - 25.

That's fine for me.

Change accuracy of some flamer, rocket, and AA gun weapons in campaign.
To have better short accuracy than long accuracy.
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commented Jun 22, 2019

Made a few tweaks. I can easily compromise on all but the cyborg missile. Changing that makes it inconsistent with the scourge and VTOL scourge.

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commented Jun 22, 2019

Made a few tweaks. I can easily compromise on all but the cyborg missile. Changing that makes it inconsistent with the scourge and VTOL scourge.

That's ok with me. According to my own argumentation, the cyborg missile shouldn't have been in my list. My bad.

@KJeff01 KJeff01 added this to the 3.3.0_beta2 milestone Jun 22, 2019

@KJeff01 KJeff01 merged commit e6ebad0 into Warzone2100:master Jun 25, 2019

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@KJeff01 KJeff01 deleted the KJeff01:camRestoreOldRanges branch Jun 25, 2019

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