Revert person-name from given/sur(name) back to first/last(name) for industry compatibility #215
Conversation
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Looks good to me - thanks @kstreeter |
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@kstreeter yes, this works very well for me. I approve. |
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Just like the idea #177 not being a good one in the first place, I think this implementation is flawed, because it is simply renaming the properties, but not changing the semantics.
The original semantics are more meaningful, but having the correct semantics with the wrong name is only making this more confusing.
I realize that there seems to be a solid majority among the editors to make this change, and I will cede, but not without pointing out that this is making things harder to explain and harder for international use.
| @@ -36,7 +36,7 @@ | |||
| "description": | |||
| "Normally an abbreviation of a persons *title*, *honorific*, or *salutation*.\nThe `courtesyTitle` is used in front of full or last name in opening texts.\ne.g Mr. Miss. or Dr J. Smith.\n" | |||
| }, | |||
| "xdm:name": { | |||
| "xdm:fullName": { | |||
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We use xdm:name for the proper name in other places, I don't see reason to deviate here.
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@trieloff So what would you put in "name" a persons preferred name or their legal(called when in trouble or by ones mother) name.
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I feel like "fullName" makes it clearer what should go in here.
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@cdegroot-adobe I'd put in:
The full name of the person, in writing order most commonly accepted in the language of the name.
Exactly as the description says. I think the title="Full Name" makes things clear enough and makes things more consistent as we don't have *name properties elsewhere. fullName is a special case that in my mind does not have enough justification. (Using the full name in the name property is something I absolutely support)
| "xdm:surname": { | ||
| "title": "Surname", | ||
| "xdm:lastName": { | ||
| "title": "Last name", |
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Ok, so this is just a title replacement? I think it is making it even more confusing. Now what is labeled lastName is indeed a "surname" and should be treated like one.
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@trieloff - the point of this set of changes is quite well thought out considering the complex issues. The generally agreed best principles going forward in person naming is that there is no correct way to separate person name components and that it specifically should be avoided. Hence "fullName" which is inline with these recommendations. The current overwhelming standard in the industry due to legacy RDBMS and data principles has been to have a first/last name. So that is something we cannot ignore. give/sur name actually are significant issues in their own right and just introduce a different version of first/last name problem with unique new semantics in non western cultures.
So the root proposal is:
a) we have a longer term correct approach with "fullName" that is more commonly being used in parallel with separated name component semantics.
b) we retain the current standard in data which is first/last name
I continue to agree with this proposal. and the interoperability it provides.
It will be interesting to see if implementation start to use "legalName", which I expect they will in some industries, and that is specifically a reason I am avoiding the "name" usage. It is very common to have a different legalName, fullName and firstName+{space}+lastName, I am an example of that. And the caucasian person who sits beside me has an issues where his firstName != givenName.
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We need to improve the descriptions.
I propose:
"The preferred first name of the person."
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+1 on @cdegroot-adobe description of the rationale. This is not intended to be a choice of first/last versus given/surname. We are saying that the preference is to use the full name (which is inline with the recommendations from W3C, and compatible with schema.org), but because our own applications and many applications in the industry use first/last we provide those fields to allow a direct translation.
| @@ -36,7 +36,7 @@ | |||
| "description": | |||
| "Normally an abbreviation of a persons *title*, *honorific*, or *salutation*.\nThe `courtesyTitle` is used in front of full or last name in opening texts.\ne.g Mr. Miss. or Dr J. Smith.\n" | |||
| }, | |||
| "xdm:name": { | |||
| "xdm:fullName": { | |||
| "title": "Full name", | |||
| "type": "string", | |||
| "description": | |||
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We need to improve the descriptions.
I propose:
"The preferred last name of the person."
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@cdegroot-adobe I think you meant to make this comment on xdm:lastName, not xdm:fullName.
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It looks like we will need some further discussion on @trieloff 's proposal to include both first/last and given/surname fields, and a methodology on how to use them. In the mean time, I think we have consensus that the current fields (firstName, lastName, fullName) are appropriate, so I am merging this in preparation for the 0.9 milestone. I filed issue #277 to track the proposed additions. |
Please link to the issue #…
PR for Issue #177