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Chinese translation draft #220

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merged 8 commits into from Oct 28, 2015

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@tvvocold
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tvvocold commented Oct 19, 2015

Call for reviewers

@fatiherikli

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fatiherikli commented Oct 19, 2015

You can mention yourself in about-zh-cn.md for translation.

@vargi

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vargi commented Oct 19, 2015

## 我们是谁
Arguman.org 是一个组织的开源项目, 如果你想贡献技术,智慧请点击如下链接:

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 20, 2015

The second sentence should be "如果你想贡献技术及智慧,请点击如下链接:"

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@kateliao0918

kateliao0918 Oct 26, 2015

+Arguman.org 為一提供開放原始碼的平台,如果您想貢獻資源與技術讓這平台更加強大,請點擊以下連結

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@ztl8702

ztl8702 Oct 26, 2015

@kateliao0918 Good job. Note that in zh_CN we tend to use "开源" for "open source". Despite the differences between zh_CN and zh_TW, it will be helpful if we have joint discussions on core terms.

@taiansu how is the traditional Chinese version going? 😀

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@taiansu
#: premises/models.py:201
msgid "Premise Type"
msgstr "前提类型"

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 20, 2015

"The parent of premise" is "前提", so the "premise" itself should be "论述" .
"Premise Type" => "论述类型"

#: premises/models.py:205
msgid "Premise Content"
msgstr "前提内容"

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 20, 2015

"Premise Content" => "论述內容"

#: templates/stats.html:14
msgid "most supported premises"
msgstr "被支持最多的前提"

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 20, 2015

"most supported premises" => "被支持最多的论证" or "最多人支持的论证"

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@plma

plma Oct 21, 2015

I would suggest "most supported ..." to be "最受支持的 ..." so that the expression is neat and fits with its antonym.

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@kateliao0918

kateliao0918 Oct 26, 2015

"most supported users"-支持度最高的用戶
"most crowded arguments"-討論度最高的話題

#: templates/stats.html:15
msgid "most fallacy premises"
msgstr "最荒谬的前提"

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 20, 2015

"most fallacy premises" => "最荒谬的论证"

" added a <span class=\"premise-type %(class)s\">%(label)s</span> premise\n"
msgstr ""
"\n"
" 添加一个 <span class=\"premise-type %(class)s\">%(label)s</span> 前提\n"

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 20, 2015

Should be "添加一个 <span class="premise-type %(class)s">%(label)s 论证".

"for a premise\n"
msgstr ""
"\n"
" 添加一个 <span class=\"premise-type %(class)s\">%(label)s</span> 前提 "

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 20, 2015

Not 100% sure for this, might be "為某论证添加一个 <span class="premise-type %(class)s">%(label)s 论证"?

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@tvvocold

tvvocold Oct 21, 2015

Contributor

到底译为前提还是论证好?这个我也很困惑
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premise
http://www.baike.com/wiki/premise

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@plma

plma Oct 21, 2015

The word "premise" depends on the context. Both "論證" and "前提" are possible words.

@tvvocold @vargi
could you please provide samples the expression shows on?

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@kateliao0918

kateliao0918 Oct 26, 2015

what about 議題?

#: templates/notifications/supported-a-premise.html:6
msgid "supported your premise"
msgstr "支持你的前提"

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 20, 2015

"支持你的论证"

#: templates/premises/contention_detail.html:104
#: templates/premises/tree_view.html:71
msgid "add premise"
msgstr "添加预述"

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 20, 2015

"添加论证"

"a> for fallacies.\n"
msgstr ""
"\n"
"你需要选择一个前提类型。.\n"

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 20, 2015

Should be "你需要选择一个谬误类型"

msgstr ""
msgid ""
"\n"
"引述的类型。它可以是:\n"

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 20, 2015

"论述的类型"

@taiansu

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taiansu commented Oct 20, 2015

Hi all, I reviewed the translations and most of them look good to me. Hope those line notes can do some help. And I wish a pile of notes doesn't seems too annoying. If so I apologize for that. 😓 Thanks!

@tvvocold

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Contributor

tvvocold commented Oct 21, 2015

@taiansu
Nice job! Thanks!

@plma

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plma commented Oct 21, 2015

Could you provide traditional Chinese and Japanese version?
I could help the translation.

#: templates/auth/profile.html:36 templates/search/profile.html:13
#: templates/stats/profile.html:13
msgid "ARGUMENT"
msgstr "命题"

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@tvvocold

tvvocold Oct 21, 2015

Contributor

@plma @taiansu
"论点" or“命题” , which one is better?

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@plma

plma Oct 21, 2015

I prefer "论点" because it could be applied in more cases.
2015/10/21 午後1:35 "Ray" notifications@github.com:

In web/locale/zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES/django.po
#220 (comment):

+msgid "Unfollow"
+msgstr "取消关注"
+
+#: templates/auth/profile.html:22
+msgid "Follow"
+msgstr "关注"
+
+#: templates/auth/profile.html:32 templates/search/profile.html:9
+#: templates/stats/profile.html:9
+msgid "FOLLOWER"
+msgstr "关注者"
+
+#: templates/auth/profile.html:36 templates/search/profile.html:13
+#: templates/stats/profile.html:13
+msgid "ARGUMENT"
+msgstr "命题"

@plma https://github.com/plma @taiansu https://github.com/taiansu
"论点" or“命题” , which one is better?


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
https://github.com/arguman/arguman.org/pull/220/files#r42582594.

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 21, 2015

Here we have two english terms "premise" and "argument", then we have four Chinese terms: "论证", "论述", "论点" and “命题”.

According to Wikipedia:

A premise or premiss[a] is a statement that an argument claims will induce or justify a conclusion... In logic, an argument requires a set of (at least) two declarative sentences (or "propositions") known as the premises or premisses along with another declarative sentence (or "proposition") known as the conclusion.

I prefer the combination of "argument => 命题; permise => 论证", IMHO. Thought I agree use "论点" as "argument" applies to more cases, as long as we can find a way let people can distinguish this two terms more intuitively.

Like to have more discussion on this. So how do you guys think? 😄


Update:

I sought my friend's opinion, of whom major in philosophy. He said, in Taiwan, we translate "premise" as "前提", but he also stressed that the usage of "add premise" in arguman.org might not be the case as our normal usage of 前提". And translate "argument" to "论证" is relatively uncontroversial convention.

Well, I don't meant to be make things more complicate. 😓 😄


@plma Btw, I'm working on the Chinese Traditional translation, will send a pr these couple days. 😄

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@plma

plma Oct 21, 2015

Considering the ease of code maintenance and user experience with the most intuitive word, it will be good to adopt a word that is easy to understand without specific knowledge. For me, "论证" is too formal and sounds like a jargon.

Since arguman is aiming at helping critical thinking, it should be acceptable to choose an easy word even there exist another term in that discipline. 😀

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@tvvocold

tvvocold Oct 22, 2015

Contributor

Hi all,
Let's have some argument about "argument":
"Argument" should be translated as "论点"
As for "permise" :
"Permise" should be translated as "前提"

😄

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@ztl8702

ztl8702 Oct 26, 2015

@tvvocold @plma @taiansu:
This issue might have something to do with Turkish-English translation, as Arguman.org was originally in Turkish.

The word "Premise" is "Önerme" on the Turkish version of Arguman.
I can't read Turkish. According to Wikipedia, the translation of "Önerme" is "Sentence" in English, and "句子" in Chinese.

Of course, using "句子" as the translation of "premise" still sounds weird, but it at least covers all three types of "premises" ("but", "because" and "however", they are all "句子".)

I am not suggesting that we should use "句子", but I think we should tend to use the conventional terms in Chinese, instead of being limited by the jargon in English.

@vargi @fatiherikli: Could you please tell us about the standards you used when translating from Turkish to English? Did you tend to be strict with academic definitions, or just go with conventional expressions? Thanks!

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#: templates/tabs.html:4
msgid "Newsfeed"
msgstr "信息流"

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@ztl8702

ztl8702 Oct 22, 2015

For consistency with "Newsfeed seems empty" ( "动态为空。"), should "Newsfeed" be translated as "动态"?

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@kateliao0918

kateliao0918 Oct 26, 2015

"Newsfeed"-最新消息

#: templates/premises/new_premise.html:27
msgid "剩余字符:"
msgstr ""

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 22, 2015

Should be:

    msgid "Characters remaining:"
    msgstr "剩余字符:"
msgstr ""
"\n"
" arguman.org 是一个开源平台。你可以在 GitHub 上关注 \n"
" organización <a href=\"http://github.com/arguman/arguman.org"

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@taiansu

taiansu Oct 22, 2015

Should remove organización here.

批判性思维是一种智力训练过程,即能够积极并富于技巧地概念化、应用、分析、综合和评估那些通过观测、实验、反思、推理或者交流而获得或产生的各种信息,从而来指引信念和行动。其典范形式,就是基于超越具体问题之上的通用智力价值标准:即简明、准确、精确、连贯、相关、坚实的证据、严密的推理,以及深度、广度和公平性。
## 命题绘图

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@ztl8702

ztl8702 Oct 22, 2015

[Argument maps] “命题绘图” seems a little awkward. It is not clear, and could be interpreted as "drawings on a given topic".
Possible alternatives:

<img style="width: 40%; margin-left: 4%;" align="right" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Whatley.png/800px-Whatley.png">
命题绘图是制作“方框和箭头”推理图,尤其是复杂的争议和辩论。命题绘图提高了我们阐述,理解和交流论证的能力,从而促进批判性思维能力。

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@ztl8702

ztl8702 Oct 22, 2015

The first sentence:
"Argument mapping is producing "boxes and arrows" diagrams of reasoning, especially complex arguments and debates."
could be translated as:
"推理图是把推理过程,尤其是复杂的论争和辩论,用“方框和箭头”的形式绘制出来。"

Of course, whether "推理图" is precise or not is still a question.

@kateliao0918

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kateliao0918 commented on web/templates/about-zh-CN.md in e139416 Oct 26, 2015

支持我們or 贊助網站 /贊助Arguman

fatiherikli added a commit that referenced this pull request Oct 28, 2015

@fatiherikli fatiherikli merged commit 33730f7 into arguman:master Oct 28, 2015

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