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Right ALT not supported (bad for International Keyboards) #35

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enzy opened this Issue Jun 12, 2014 · 351 comments

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enzy commented Jun 12, 2014

Original issue: atom/atom#1625


Use https://atom.io/packages/keyboard-localization until this issue gets fixed (should be in the Blink upstream).

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ghost Aug 13, 2014

Ok definitely a reloading issue, I tried closing the tabs a few times. Then rebooted the entire editor - then nothing, and all of a sudden it kicked in (alt-q).

Left alt doesn't seem to work here either (alt-q) when trying to rebind the reflow command for paragraphs it just ignores and persists ctrl-alt-q

ghost commented Aug 13, 2014

Ok definitely a reloading issue, I tried closing the tabs a few times. Then rebooted the entire editor - then nothing, and all of a sudden it kicked in (alt-q).

Left alt doesn't seem to work here either (alt-q) when trying to rebind the reflow command for paragraphs it just ignores and persists ctrl-alt-q

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guillaume86 Aug 16, 2014

Is there a workaround while we wait for a fix?
I can't type a "]" (Right Alt + ")" on french keyboards).

Is there a workaround while we wait for a fix?
I can't type a "]" (Right Alt + ")" on french keyboards).

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mgrenier Aug 18, 2014

@guillaume86 You might try to set the keymap in your personal config to !unset or !native as described here. I had to remove the keymap directly in the keymaps/win32.json of Atom.

@guillaume86 You might try to set the keymap in your personal config to !unset or !native as described here. I had to remove the keymap directly in the keymaps/win32.json of Atom.

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guillaume86 Aug 18, 2014

Thanks I'll try to hack that something into init.coffee (!unset and !native don't work either).

Edit:
Got it removed with:

# remove offending keybindings (https://github.com/atom/atom-keymap/issues/35)
atom.keymap.keyBindings = atom.keymap.keyBindings.filter((binding, i) ->
  ['ctrl-alt-['].indexOf(binding.keystrokes) == -1
)

Thanks I'll try to hack that something into init.coffee (!unset and !native don't work either).

Edit:
Got it removed with:

# remove offending keybindings (https://github.com/atom/atom-keymap/issues/35)
atom.keymap.keyBindings = atom.keymap.keyBindings.filter((binding, i) ->
  ['ctrl-alt-['].indexOf(binding.keystrokes) == -1
)
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DavidBadura Aug 18, 2014

I have written a simple plugin for German keyboard and Windows. Now i can write @ and \.
I will still improve the plugin and publish it.

https://github.com/DavidBadura/atom-keymap-compatible

I have written a simple plugin for German keyboard and Windows. Now i can write @ and \.
I will still improve the plugin and publish it.

https://github.com/DavidBadura/atom-keymap-compatible

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db6edr Aug 21, 2014

@DavidBadura Thanks! I' testdriving the plugin and am happy with it.

db6edr commented Aug 21, 2014

@DavidBadura Thanks! I' testdriving the plugin and am happy with it.

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ebertmi Sep 16, 2014

@DavidBadura Plugin works great, though I couldn't find it in the packages list

ebertmi commented Sep 16, 2014

@DavidBadura Plugin works great, though I couldn't find it in the packages list

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db6edr Sep 16, 2014

@waywaaard The plugin has not been released as an Atom package. I've created an issue with David to do so.

db6edr commented Sep 16, 2014

@waywaaard The plugin has not been released as an Atom package. I've created an issue with David to do so.

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tengwar Oct 2, 2014

The same with Polish keyboard layout. (QWERTY keyboard, where altgr+letter is used for typing national characters.)

tengwar commented Oct 2, 2014

The same with Polish keyboard layout. (QWERTY keyboard, where altgr+letter is used for typing national characters.)

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tcoopman Oct 16, 2014

Is this something that's on the roadmap to fix for 1.0?

Is this something that's on the roadmap to fix for 1.0?

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philipgiuliani Oct 16, 2014

It would be cool if it is possible to scope keybindings on a keyboard layout. Could be a solution!

It would be cool if it is possible to scope keybindings on a keyboard layout. Could be a solution!

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Braintelligence Oct 21, 2014

I'm using atom-keymap-compatible and it works but this should be part of the editor itself.

I'm using atom-keymap-compatible and it works but this should be part of the editor itself.

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usrbowe Oct 28, 2014

I found a solution!

  1. Open Settings > Keybindings.
  2. Search for this: "ctrl-alt-.". Then copy this keybind via copy icon on same row as "bracket-matcher:close-tag" keybind.
  3. Now click on "your keymap file" and here paste copied keybind. (Location: C:\Users_user_.atom\keymap.cson)
  4. Change: 'bracket-matcher:close-tag' to 'unset!'
  5. That's all, now it should work perfectly.

*I am using Czech QWERTZ keyboard layout on Win8

Here is how your keymap file should look like:
unbind

usrbowe commented Oct 28, 2014

I found a solution!

  1. Open Settings > Keybindings.
  2. Search for this: "ctrl-alt-.". Then copy this keybind via copy icon on same row as "bracket-matcher:close-tag" keybind.
  3. Now click on "your keymap file" and here paste copied keybind. (Location: C:\Users_user_.atom\keymap.cson)
  4. Change: 'bracket-matcher:close-tag' to 'unset!'
  5. That's all, now it should work perfectly.

*I am using Czech QWERTZ keyboard layout on Win8

Here is how your keymap file should look like:
unbind

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ccoenen Sep 13, 2016

Yes, avoiding Ctrl+Alt was suggested somewhere in this ticket, it's also what Visual Studio Code does.

Since there's a ton of Ctrl+Alt Shortcuts out there already, i don't think that's an option any more.

From anecdotal point of view, I know a few people that would rather use Ctrl+Alt+Q to get the "@" symbol on a german keyboard. It is a combination close to each other. AltGr+Q is the actual intended shortcut, but both work the same, so some choose the former. This is the only key-combination for which I have observed this kind of use/preference.

I do think not treating them the same has advantages.
a) The current shortcuts that already involve Ctrl+Alt could work while the special characters (AltGr+something) would ALSO work
b) For those of us with very little AltGr shortcuts, WE GET A WHOLE EMPTY MODIFIER KEY! So we could add shortcuts to our heart's content :D

I hope I'm not missing anything.

ccoenen commented Sep 13, 2016

Yes, avoiding Ctrl+Alt was suggested somewhere in this ticket, it's also what Visual Studio Code does.

Since there's a ton of Ctrl+Alt Shortcuts out there already, i don't think that's an option any more.

From anecdotal point of view, I know a few people that would rather use Ctrl+Alt+Q to get the "@" symbol on a german keyboard. It is a combination close to each other. AltGr+Q is the actual intended shortcut, but both work the same, so some choose the former. This is the only key-combination for which I have observed this kind of use/preference.

I do think not treating them the same has advantages.
a) The current shortcuts that already involve Ctrl+Alt could work while the special characters (AltGr+something) would ALSO work
b) For those of us with very little AltGr shortcuts, WE GET A WHOLE EMPTY MODIFIER KEY! So we could add shortcuts to our heart's content :D

I hope I'm not missing anything.

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HoverBaum Sep 14, 2016

@ccoenen It seems like this will break something either way.

It will either break some plugins shortcuts or some users experience with their native keyboard. Personally I feel like the second would be a way worse thing.

While yeah it seems nice that some of us could get more shortcuts out of it I feel like that is part of the problem which made this debate heated. Non-US keyboard users throughout this thread voiced that it felt to them like "people not caring about things outside the US". And I feel that differantiating between the combinations would recreate that feeling.

Since Alt + Ctrl is the same as AltGr it should be the same in Atom as well. What should get broken are plugins shortcuts. This should be the turning point to go "hey guys, sorry but this is horrible for international keyboards, we did this wrong, let's do it right."

@ccoenen It seems like this will break something either way.

It will either break some plugins shortcuts or some users experience with their native keyboard. Personally I feel like the second would be a way worse thing.

While yeah it seems nice that some of us could get more shortcuts out of it I feel like that is part of the problem which made this debate heated. Non-US keyboard users throughout this thread voiced that it felt to them like "people not caring about things outside the US". And I feel that differantiating between the combinations would recreate that feeling.

Since Alt + Ctrl is the same as AltGr it should be the same in Atom as well. What should get broken are plugins shortcuts. This should be the turning point to go "hey guys, sorry but this is horrible for international keyboards, we did this wrong, let's do it right."

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ccoenen Sep 14, 2016

Let's just agree that "i can't type \ or @ in a TEXT EDITOR" ist a different degree of broken than "There's this obscure way of getting a character that (presumably) nobody uses, but we do not do it because there's the more widespread way."

And don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less if they removed all the Ctrl+Alt Shortcuts, I just don't think it's going to happen. I've suggested it earlier somewhere in the 290 posts fold of this ticket (Post #35 (comment) specifically), to which the reply was an example where a single changed shortcut upset a lot of users. I've also argued for it in another ticket atom/atom#9455.

That's the sole reason why I wrote "i don't think that's an option any more". It would be the cleaner solution, for sure. But given the previous discussion, I was searching for a compromise that would upset as few people as possible.

ccoenen commented Sep 14, 2016

Let's just agree that "i can't type \ or @ in a TEXT EDITOR" ist a different degree of broken than "There's this obscure way of getting a character that (presumably) nobody uses, but we do not do it because there's the more widespread way."

And don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less if they removed all the Ctrl+Alt Shortcuts, I just don't think it's going to happen. I've suggested it earlier somewhere in the 290 posts fold of this ticket (Post #35 (comment) specifically), to which the reply was an example where a single changed shortcut upset a lot of users. I've also argued for it in another ticket atom/atom#9455.

That's the sole reason why I wrote "i don't think that's an option any more". It would be the cleaner solution, for sure. But given the previous discussion, I was searching for a compromise that would upset as few people as possible.

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nathansobo Sep 14, 2016

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Okay everyone, please check out my description in #144 and let us know if we're missing anything.

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nathansobo commented Sep 14, 2016

Okay everyone, please check out my description in #144 and let us know if we're missing anything.

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ccoenen Sep 14, 2016

There's binaries and everything there! You can get an early glimpse of the future and you don't even have to touch code if you don't want to ❤️

ccoenen commented Sep 14, 2016

There's binaries and everything there! You can get an early glimpse of the future and you don't even have to touch code if you don't want to ❤️

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nj-neer Sep 15, 2016

The "}" bug is still here.

It is fixed with the keyboard-localization package ... but users shouldn't have to install this for something as simple as "}".

nj-neer commented Sep 15, 2016

The "}" bug is still here.

It is fixed with the keyboard-localization package ... but users shouldn't have to install this for something as simple as "}".

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ccoenen Sep 15, 2016

@Cyriaqu3 did you try it with the versions provided in #144? If so: please comment over in ticket #144 on what platform (operating system, keyboard layout, ... etc) you have and what exactly does or does not happen.
If you're trying with regular atom (stable, beta, alpha all alike) then it's still broken. Only the Work in progress version in #144 should be better.

ccoenen commented Sep 15, 2016

@Cyriaqu3 did you try it with the versions provided in #144? If so: please comment over in ticket #144 on what platform (operating system, keyboard layout, ... etc) you have and what exactly does or does not happen.
If you're trying with regular atom (stable, beta, alpha all alike) then it's still broken. Only the Work in progress version in #144 should be better.

@nathansobo nathansobo closed this in #144 Sep 15, 2016

@nathansobo nathansobo reopened this Sep 15, 2016

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I actually want to close this via the PR that lands these changes in Atom, rather than just landing in the atom-keymap module. Sorry for the noise. Will be closed for real very soon.

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nathansobo commented Sep 15, 2016

I actually want to close this via the PR that lands these changes in Atom, rather than just landing in the atom-keymap module. Sorry for the noise. Will be closed for real very soon.

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Awesome!

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Hey everybody. So it would be great if you could test drive atom/atom#12697. Builds for each platform are linked at the bottom of the PR where you can find build artifacts to try out.

@ccoenen we really appreciated your thorough testing and reporting on the previous branch build and made some changes in response to it. We'd be grateful if you could download the latest build and make sure we've fixed the ctrl-alt-q issue and not broken anything else with the new adjustments.

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nathansobo commented Sep 15, 2016

Hey everybody. So it would be great if you could test drive atom/atom#12697. Builds for each platform are linked at the bottom of the PR where you can find build artifacts to try out.

@ccoenen we really appreciated your thorough testing and reporting on the previous branch build and made some changes in response to it. We'd be grateful if you could download the latest build and make sure we've fixed the ctrl-alt-q issue and not broken anything else with the new adjustments.

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aschmu Oct 11, 2016

I seriously can't believe a text editor that's this promising won't let you well...type any text without unnecessary hassle !

aschmu commented Oct 11, 2016

I seriously can't believe a text editor that's this promising won't let you well...type any text without unnecessary hassle !

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Xylane Oct 11, 2016

For those who would like to test it, Atom 1.12.0-beta0 Windows installer is available since few hours via the usual link (https://atom.io/beta).
As mentioned above this version seems to solve this issue, so enjoy :-)

Xylane commented Oct 11, 2016

For those who would like to test it, Atom 1.12.0-beta0 Windows installer is available since few hours via the usual link (https://atom.io/beta).
As mentioned above this version seems to solve this issue, so enjoy :-)

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LoDef Oct 14, 2016

For Swedish keyboards this works:

'atom-workspace atom-pane':
    'ctrl-alt-=': 'unset!'

LoDef commented Oct 14, 2016

For Swedish keyboards this works:

'atom-workspace atom-pane':
    'ctrl-alt-=': 'unset!'
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Spiralwise Oct 17, 2016

The beta seems to resolve this major issue!

Spiralwise commented Oct 17, 2016

The beta seems to resolve this major issue!

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thorade Oct 18, 2016

And there is also a long explanatory blog post from github:
http://blog.atom.io/2016/10/17/the-wonderful-world-of-keyboards.html

thorade commented Oct 18, 2016

And there is also a long explanatory blog post from github:
http://blog.atom.io/2016/10/17/the-wonderful-world-of-keyboards.html

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realtime Oct 28, 2016

This issue is still not resolved completely as of Atom 1.12.0-beta5, at least on Windows.

Pressing Ctrl-LeftAlt-(key) has the same effect as pressing RightAlt-(key) if the latter generates a character. In both cases the character defined by RightAlt-(key) is inserted and the shortcut defined for Ctrl-LeftAlt-(key) cannot be invoked.

Notepad++ handles this properly and can distinguish the key combinations.

realtime commented Oct 28, 2016

This issue is still not resolved completely as of Atom 1.12.0-beta5, at least on Windows.

Pressing Ctrl-LeftAlt-(key) has the same effect as pressing RightAlt-(key) if the latter generates a character. In both cases the character defined by RightAlt-(key) is inserted and the shortcut defined for Ctrl-LeftAlt-(key) cannot be invoked.

Notepad++ handles this properly and can distinguish the key combinations.

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edin5 Nov 2, 2016

1.12.0-beta6 works for me 👍

edin5 commented Nov 2, 2016

1.12.0-beta6 works for me 👍

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nyxel Nov 3, 2016

1.12.0-beta7 works as one would expect, too. I'm a new Hungarian user of Atom, and I'm happy. Cheers 🙂

nyxel commented Nov 3, 2016

1.12.0-beta7 works as one would expect, too. I'm a new Hungarian user of Atom, and I'm happy. Cheers 🙂

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VladimirDev93 Nov 4, 2016

Can confirm, the upcoming 1.12 release fixes the international keyboard issue. Serbian keyboard works as it should. If you keyboard is still not working, you will be able to fix it via Atom API. Check out here: #164

Can confirm, the upcoming 1.12 release fixes the international keyboard issue. Serbian keyboard works as it should. If you keyboard is still not working, you will be able to fix it via Atom API. Check out here: #164

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szimek Nov 10, 2016

Got a question - I'm using Atom 1.12.0 on macOS 10.12.1 and got "Polish - Pro" keyboard selected. I can type all Polish-specific characters like ęóśłżźćń just fine using right Alt, but I can't type lowercase ą (uppercase Ą - alt-shift-a works fine), because alt-a binding is already taken by project-find:show-in-current-directory command. I fixed it by adding 'alt-a': 'unset!' to my keymap file for now, but I'm wondering if this fix was also supposed to somehow solve such problems?

EDIT: I've just noticed that I can't type uppercase Ś (i.e. alt-shift-s) as well, it's already taken by snippets:available command.

szimek commented Nov 10, 2016

Got a question - I'm using Atom 1.12.0 on macOS 10.12.1 and got "Polish - Pro" keyboard selected. I can type all Polish-specific characters like ęóśłżźćń just fine using right Alt, but I can't type lowercase ą (uppercase Ą - alt-shift-a works fine), because alt-a binding is already taken by project-find:show-in-current-directory command. I fixed it by adding 'alt-a': 'unset!' to my keymap file for now, but I'm wondering if this fix was also supposed to somehow solve such problems?

EDIT: I've just noticed that I can't type uppercase Ś (i.e. alt-shift-s) as well, it's already taken by snippets:available command.

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@szimek I believe it is supposed to fix the problem you describe. You can test it out today in Atom 1.12.

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Ben3eeE commented Nov 10, 2016

@szimek I believe it is supposed to fix the problem you describe. You can test it out today in Atom 1.12.

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ludwiktrammer Nov 10, 2016

I can confirm the issue @szimek is describing. I'm using the most recent Atom 1.12 with Mac OS X 10.11.6 with a Polish keyboard layout. Both ą (alt-a) and Ś (alt+shift+s) are still unavailable - Atom 1.12 unfortunately did not resolve the issue.

I can confirm the issue @szimek is describing. I'm using the most recent Atom 1.12 with Mac OS X 10.11.6 with a Polish keyboard layout. Both ą (alt-a) and Ś (alt+shift+s) are still unavailable - Atom 1.12 unfortunately did not resolve the issue.

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Hey @ludwiktrammer and @szimek. You should be able to work around this using the public custom keystroke resolver API.

Something like this to your init.coffee and restarting Atom should work, and the same for ą.

atom.keymaps.addKeystrokeResolver ({event}) ->
  if event.code is 'KeyS' and event.altKey and event.shiftKey
    return 'Ś'

If you could also open a new issue on this repository so we can track this that would be great, thanks!

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Ben3eeE commented Nov 10, 2016

Hey @ludwiktrammer and @szimek. You should be able to work around this using the public custom keystroke resolver API.

Something like this to your init.coffee and restarting Atom should work, and the same for ą.

atom.keymaps.addKeystrokeResolver ({event}) ->
  if event.code is 'KeyS' and event.altKey and event.shiftKey
    return 'Ś'

If you could also open a new issue on this repository so we can track this that would be great, thanks!

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ludwiktrammer Nov 10, 2016

@Ben3eeE Thank you. The workaround works. I created a new issue #169.

@Ben3eeE Thank you. The workaround works. I created a new issue #169.

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yalov Feb 16, 2017

Hey @Ben3eeE, there is a thing like “3 and 4 layer of keyboard layout” (AltGr, AltGr+Shift), it is not few keyboard layout — many standard native keyboard layout has that 3 layer (AltGr). It collide with Ctrl+Alt hotkeys.

Even more, you can create your own layout with “The Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator” or use some popular "typography" layout, so every key on keyboard can have that 3 layer, and user may want use 3 layer or hotkeys.

Public custom keystroke resolver API in init.coffee for every key it is cool, but main setting switch (Ctrl+Alt hotkeys <--> AltGr 3-4 layers) is better. It is not replace, but as an addition.

yalov commented Feb 16, 2017

Hey @Ben3eeE, there is a thing like “3 and 4 layer of keyboard layout” (AltGr, AltGr+Shift), it is not few keyboard layout — many standard native keyboard layout has that 3 layer (AltGr). It collide with Ctrl+Alt hotkeys.

Even more, you can create your own layout with “The Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator” or use some popular "typography" layout, so every key on keyboard can have that 3 layer, and user may want use 3 layer or hotkeys.

Public custom keystroke resolver API in init.coffee for every key it is cool, but main setting switch (Ctrl+Alt hotkeys <--> AltGr 3-4 layers) is better. It is not replace, but as an addition.

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neochief Feb 22, 2017

I have a typography layout, which relies a lot on AltGr. Needless to say, that Atom still conflicts with a lot of those keys. For instance, Ctrl+Alt+- and Ctrl+Alt+= are pretty useless in terms of Atom usage, but they block the — and ≠ characters on the layout for me.

It would be nice to have an option to disable all alt+ or alt+shift+ or alt+ctrl+ shortcuts altogether.

I have a typography layout, which relies a lot on AltGr. Needless to say, that Atom still conflicts with a lot of those keys. For instance, Ctrl+Alt+- and Ctrl+Alt+= are pretty useless in terms of Atom usage, but they block the — and ≠ characters on the layout for me.

It would be nice to have an option to disable all alt+ or alt+shift+ or alt+ctrl+ shortcuts altogether.

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@yalov @neochief Can you please create a new issue for this? Also please completely fill out the provided issue template. It is easy that the discussion will be forgotten if it is kept here. Feel free to @mention me in the new issue after you created it.

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Ben3eeE commented Feb 22, 2017

@yalov @neochief Can you please create a new issue for this? Also please completely fill out the provided issue template. It is easy that the discussion will be forgotten if it is kept here. Feel free to @mention me in the new issue after you created it.

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