Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.

Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account

Removal of BTC.com wallet? #1660

Closed
Mirobit opened this Issue Jul 3, 2017 · 17 comments

Comments

Projects
None yet
Contributor

Mirobit commented Jul 3, 2017 edited

BTC.com was one of the The Future of Bitcoin Conference 2017 sponsors. At the conference well known fraudster and patent troll Craig Wright attacked bitcoin users and core devs.

While I don't have a problem with supporting a conference that gives different opinions (e.g BU) a platform, I draw the line when they give a dangerous egomaniac a platform for his FUD and hate.

While this is not against the bitcoin.org wallet inclusion rules, it shows at best poor judgement and at worst the desire to harm bitcoin.

Maybe I am totally out of line here but I would like to hear from BTC.com (@bitkevin) if they knew that Craig was one of the speakers and if they support his views on Bitcoin.

Contributor

Cobra-Bitcoin commented Jul 3, 2017

They're associated with that monster Jihan Wu, so I don't mind if they get removed because of this, they're terrible people. I definitely feel like a line has been crossed here.

@wbnns wbnns self-assigned this Jul 3, 2017

@wbnns wbnns added the Under Review label Jul 3, 2017

bitkevin commented Jul 4, 2017

It's a shame that have Craig Wright on the stage.

Contributor

crwatkins commented Jul 4, 2017

I would like to comment on the process and procedure here. I agree with @Mirobit that I do not believe that sponsoring a conference, regardless of the subject matter is against our wallet criteria. I fully believe that if we think that such actions (or lack there of) are valid criteria, we should work to express those criteria.

Contributor

AlejandroDeLaTorre commented Jul 4, 2017

BTC.com was not aware that Craig Wright would be on stage. John Matonis was scheduled to speak and surprised us, and everyone else when he gave the stage to Craig Wright.

Contributor

jlopp commented Jul 4, 2017

All I see here is a "guilt by association" witch hunt. Proposals to remove a wallet's listing should be based upon technical reasoning, not ad hominems.

This has nothing to do with wallet recommendations. I suggest this thread be closed. This is no reason this should be under review.

The sponsors were clearly not aware CW would be there, and even if they were or had even personally invited him on stage it wouldn't make a difference.

Wallets are to be recommended on their technical merits, and should only be delisted if they can be demonstrated to harm or put users at risk.

Contributor

Mirobit commented Jul 4, 2017 edited

@jlopp @FrancisPouliot Judging a wallet only on its technical merits can be short-sighted. A malicious developer can push an update to the app store at any time to steal the users funds or harm the network or bitcoin's image. So I think the trustworthiness of the developer should also be a criteria. No one would recommend a wallet developed by Bernard Madoff even if it would be technically fine.
This is an extreme example and BTC.com hasn't shown any signs of being an malicious developer. But I think it should be at least open for discussion if the trustworthiness/'moral character' of the developer should be considered for wallet inclusion. The only requirement at the moment is that the identity of the devs/CEO is known.

Anyway I am closing the issue since I agree with @crwatkins and the r/btc crowd is rolling in.

@Mirobit Mirobit closed this Jul 4, 2017

@wbnns wbnns removed the Under Review label Jul 4, 2017

jli225 commented Jul 4, 2017 edited

No wonder so many people see the the administrators of the bitcoin.org website as "notorious, unashamed, effrontery". Sad to see so many people have been brainwashed by the propaganda that "it's ASICBoost that make miners say NO to SegWit" and "hard fork is risky, soft fork is safe". Thanks to the censorship!

@Mirobit

A malicious developer can push an update to the app store at any time to steal the users funds

I doubt you really believe what you said, or it's just another propaganda of half-truth. If you really believe so, the first step you shall do is to remove "Bitcoin Core" from your site. Also, you lied, CSW did not attack users.

Anyway, avoid claiming bitcoin.org as "official site". It's a personal website controlled by stupid yet arrogant and unashamed guy(s).

Contributor

jonasschnelli commented Jul 4, 2017

Please use scientific/technical-measurements to list/de-list wallets. Otherwise this gets a big mess and we will have endless discussions.

jli225 commented Jul 4, 2017 edited

@jonasschnelli I don't think the administrators of bitcoin.org have any intention to judge with scientific/technical-measurements. Look at their notorious history. Actually, you asked them for too much.

As many people said, they are stupid yet arrogant. They are only fortunate for being accidentally in charge of this famous site. They did not "earn" this position gradually so it's not surprising that they are lack of some basic requirement for managing an important website. Actually, they see bitcoin.org as their private property, and practically bitcoin.org becomes a personal website nowaday.

If you see bitcoin.org as the "official" site, it's your own fault. If you can't see through the censorship and if you are brainwashed by the propaganda there, you deserve it.

Contributor

jonasschnelli commented Jul 4, 2017

Domains are owned by individuals or cooperations. Not sure if I like this, but it's how it is. Would it be better if the site is owned by the Bitcoin Foundation? Or via GitHub and changed get merged based on reddit votes... I smell a clear "No!" here.

Bitcoin.org did a good job so far, not perfect but much better then any other so-called "official" bitcoin sites.
@jli225: feel free to try better.

jli225 commented Jul 4, 2017 edited

@jonasschnelli
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Its corruption is inevitable. No matter they label themselves as "open-source" "volunteers" "decentralized" or not.
This is the root cause of the horrible corruption happened in Reddit/Bitcoin, Github/Bitcoin and so many places. Anyone who has learned the basic economics would know that the worst problem is "some resources are claimed---or seen by the public---as public resources, but actually in the charge of some individuals who will never lose the power whatever".

That's why Satoshi passed the torch to Gavin, that's why Gavin passed the torch to Vladimir

And that's why Vladimir refused to pass the torch or return to Gavin.

That's why such horrible censorship can last for years on an expected censorship-resistant internet of money.

That's why Mike Hearn lost hope, that's why Coinbase lost hope. That's why it takes the Bitcoin community years to gather the courage to initiate a new reference version

Stop trolling. This is an open-source educational project by volunteers.

Regarding Coinbase, look at past discussion or open a relevant issue for review. AFAIK they specifically asked the community to remove them from educational material that considers them a "wallet" with this blog post: https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-is-not-a-wallet-b5b9293ca0e7

I understand you want to leave your opinions for the world to see, but this is nothing short of digital graffiti and I would ask you refrain from using this repo as your soapbox.

molecular commented Jul 4, 2017 edited

Shouldn't inclusion of wallet software in the list be based purely on the properties of the wallet? Why would you even look at properties of the producer of the wallet?

The proposed action gives the impression of punishing the producer of the wallet for something that has nothing whatsoever to do with the wallet itself.

Contributor

Mirobit commented Jul 4, 2017

@molecular Not looking at the properties of the producer would be reckless. Bitcoin.org is a place where newcomers look for information. Many of them simply rely on the fact that a wallet is listed on Bitcoin.org and don't do further research on the developer. So we need to make sure that the developer is at least somewhat trustworthy and doesn't have a history of scam/fraud.

The current rules would not prevent Mark Kaperkles or Bernard Madoff from adding their wallets to Bitcoin.org if they are technically fine.

This is not about BTC.com anymore.

The are currently no such wallets listed or under consideration but we need to think long-term. We should not have this discussion when the first scammer tries to add his wallet. Better be prepared.

Contributor

seandotau commented Jul 4, 2017

As a newbie, bitcoin.org is a definitely a starting place when looking for information.

Judging a wallet based on technical merits is a given. Judging the developer/author of the wallet should be left to the individual but information about the developer/author is important and should be presented in a non-biased manner. This is similar to company register holding information about directors.

It's not about "punishing the producer of the wallet" but making information available so individuals can make their own decisions.

There shouldn't be any liability for contributors of this project.

Recommendations based on objective, verifiable, peer-reviewed analysys.

I'm unfollowing this thread.

Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment