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Update Text on "You Need to Know" #974
Conversation
saivann
and 1 other
commented on an outdated diff
Jul 24, 2015
| @@ -676,9 +676,12 @@ en: | ||
| anonymous: "Bitcoin is not anonymous" | ||
| anonymoustxt: "Some effort is required to protect your privacy with Bitcoin. All Bitcoin transactions are stored publicly and permanently on the network, which means anyone can see the balance and transactions of any Bitcoin address. However, the identity of the user behind an address remains unknown until information is revealed during a purchase or in other circumstances. This is one reason why Bitcoin addresses should only be used once. Always remember that it is your responsibility to adopt good practices in order to protect your privacy. <a href=\"#protect-your-privacy#\"><b>Read more about protecting your privacy</b></a>." | ||
| instant: "Unconfirmed transactions aren't secure" | ||
| - instanttxt: "A Bitcoin transaction is usually deployed within a few seconds and begins to be confirmed in the following 10 minutes. During that time, a transaction can be considered authentic but still reversible. Dishonest users could try to cheat, which means there is a risk when accepting unconfirmated transactions. For large amounts like 1000 US$, it makes sense to wait for 6 confirmations or more. Each confirmation <i>exponentially</i> decreases the risk of a reversed transaction." | ||
| + instanttxt: "New transactions start out as unconfirmed. If you trust the person paying you, you don't have to worry about unconfirmed transactions. If you don't trust them, you should wait for the transaction to receive at least one confirmation—this has historically provided a better than 95% guarantee that the payment can't be changed. Because Bitcoin miners sometimes misbehave, this guarantee isn't as strong for lightweight wallets, so you may want to wait for three confirmations unless you use a recent version of <a href=\"#download#\">Bitcoin Core</a>. For high value amounts, waiting for six or more confirmations is strongly recommended no matter what wallet you use." |
saivann
Contributor
|
saivann
commented on an outdated diff
Jul 24, 2015
| experimental: "Bitcoin is still experimental" | ||
| - experimentaltxt: "Bitcoin is an experimental new currency that is in active development. Although it becomes less experimental as usage grows, you should keep in mind that Bitcoin is a new invention that is exploring ideas that have never been attempted before. As such, its future cannot be predicted by anyone." | ||
| + experimentaltxt: "Bitcoin is an experimental new currency that is in active development. Although it becomes less experimental as usage grows, you should keep in mind that Bitcoin is a new invention that is exploring ideas that have never been attempted before. As such, its future cannot be predicted by anyone. For example:" |
saivann
Contributor
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ABISprotocol
commented
Jul 24, 2015
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Hold this open for longer than you would be used to doing, please. You need to wait for more public comment on the matter, even if it seems to you that you should just create it and merge it. |
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I think better than saying "Unconfirmed transactions are not secure" you should say "Unconfirmed transactions are not final and maybe reversed". Point of order, unconfirmed transactions are simply unconfirmed and subject to change until they are confirmed, they are not "insecure" which means something else entirely. |
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@btcdrak what do you think about me changing the section title to, "Use confirmations to prevent fraud"? |
CodeShark
referenced this pull request
in CryptoConsortium/CCSS
Jul 26, 2015
Open
Adding a section to Operations: Fork management and contingency planning #18
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@btcdrak Mmh, if you can be defrauded, and can't rely on them, I think it's accurate to say unconfirmed transactions are not secure. But I'd be fine with "Unconfirmed transactions cannot be trusted" (Edit: or a short version of your suggestion "Unconfirmed transactions may be reversed"), I'm not sure though if that makes a real difference and is worth re-translating? |
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@saivann updated regarding both of your comments. New sections look like this: (Almost everything in the screenshot above is now changed from the original.)
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How about "The speed of the first confirmation can vary based on how the network is busy and how big a transaction fee you pay, and usually takes 10 minutes on average" (People mostly care about the first confirmation when it comes to getting an estimation and ~10 minutes seems still accurate: https://blockchain.info/charts/avg-confirmation-time , while still mentioning why it could be longer than that as I think was one of the purposes here ). FWIW, I didn't notice the second text after the table at a first glance, perhaps it would be more readable if merged with the one right before the table? Re: Bitcoin is still experimental: FWIW, I really liked the previous "Nobody can predict it's future" conclusion because it encompassed virtually everything, from speculative crashs, technical failures, social phenomenons, or anything impredictable we might not be thinking about. I must say I am a bit conflicted about saying users are a burden; they are, but it's unclear if they bring more than they take, as Bitcoin is also nothing without users, so there is a dichotomy. I don't know if that comment of mine is really worth thinking though, maybe I'm being too meticulous. |
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@saivann tweaked text in commit 4f90685:
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Oh, I forgot. Here is a quick chart I made of the number of blocks per year that take longer than x minutes to produce. I used this formula to chose 90 minutes as the listed maximum (an estimated 6 blocks per year take longer than 90 minutes), but if anyone wants to suggest changing the number, looking at the chart might be useful. The y axis is log scale. |
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I think the "Experimental" text is much better, and it could be shortened to 4 lines by using a more concise "presents new challenges to overcome" line.
Re: one/two line paragraph before and after the table; Yes I think it's not a fantastically readable layout. Re: 10 minutes delay; Thanks for thinking of common issues. New text looks good! I'm fine with "or depends on another unconfirmed transaction" but as it's probably less common and there are other cases where confirmations may take longer, maybe it's broader to just say "or if your transaction does not follow usual transaction pattern" or similar? Just an idea. |
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@saivann updated again. Screenshot of current text below and list of changes below that:
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I think the content is more useful for the user, accurate and professional than before, thanks for your careful writing and for taking my feedback into account! Unimportant stuff that shouldn't block the PR: I wonder if we can increase bottom/top margins a bit on the table to aerate the layout, and if we can drop a word somewhere to avoid having a mostly empty line with a single word ("longer") on it. |
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@saivann I removed "below" from "see table below" to remove the widowing and put a This PR is scheduled to be merged Sunday, August 2nd. (This provides the extra time for feedback requested by @ABISprotocol) |
harding
added
the
Merge Scheduled
label
Jul 26, 2015
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@saivann @harding Regarding "secure". The use of the word secure here is really misleading. When something is not secure it means that security can be circumvented by an authorised person. Unconfirmed transactions are not insecure, they are simply not final and can be reversed. Alternative suggestions: "Unconfimed transactions are not final". It's exactly like receiving payment by check, it's not final until the check clears. I also think the chart is not really giving the full picture because the number of confirmations depends on the risks you are willing to take based on the transaction amount. |
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@btcdrak I don't think the section title is misleading anyone. Regarding the table, I don't have any ideas for providing better guidelines while staying concise. If you have any suggestions, I'm happy to hear them. |
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This pull request doesn't change the title anyway so I think it's a separate issue. But FWIW, IIRC this title was previously changed in a PR to explicitely say "isn't secure", so I'm not sure if changing it again really makes sense. Edit: ...And the example provided (checks) aren't considered as a safe form of payment by most merchants either, I still think current title, or alternative suggestions, are both fine. Regarding the table, I also wonder what could be done that would be better, and in either case, it's still much better than what we have now. If for any reason it is not perfect, it's not set in stone, but someone has to make a better alternative and take time to submit it. |






harding commentedJul 24, 2015
Although the text is my own (so blame me if it stinks), the idea for these changes came from @saivann here and here.