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Update text on FAQ & Innovation pages #989

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merged 3 commits into from Aug 5, 2015

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harding commented Jul 30, 2015

This PR continues the work started in aborted pull #972. It is split into two commits:

  1. No text changes; just wrap existing text to allow word diffing the next commit.
  2. Actual text changes.

Advantages of Bitcoin from FAQ

screenshot-btcorg localhost 2015-07-29 21-02-34

Confirmations and fees from FAQ

screenshot-btcorg localhost 2015-07-29 21-19-23

Micro payments from Innovation

screenshot-btcorg localhost 2015-07-29 21-22-53

harding added some commits Jul 29, 2015

@saivann saivann commented on an outdated diff Aug 1, 2015

_translations/en.yml
fee: "How much will the transaction fee be?"
- feetxt1: "Most transactions can be processed without fees, but users are encouraged to pay a small voluntary fee for faster confirmation of their transactions and to remunerate miners. When fees are required, they generally don't exceed a few pennies in value. Your Bitcoin client will usually try to estimate an appropriate fee when required."
- feetxt2: "Transaction fees are used as a protection against users sending transactions to overload the network. The precise manner in which fees work is still being developed and will change over time. Because the fee is not related to the amount of bitcoins being sent, it may seem extremely low (0.0005 BTC for a 1,000 BTC transfer) or unfairly high (0.004 BTC for a 0.02 BTC payment). The fee is defined by attributes such as data in transaction and transaction recurrence. For example, if you are receiving a large number of tiny amounts, then fees for sending will be higher. Such payments are comparable to paying a restaurant bill using only pennies. Spending small fractions of your bitcoins rapidly may also require a fee. If your activity follows the pattern of conventional transactions, the fees should remain very low."
+ feetxt1: >
+ Transactions can be processed without fees, but users are
+ encouraged to pay a voluntary fee for faster confirmation of
+ their transactions and to remunerate miners. When fees are
@saivann

saivann Aug 1, 2015

Contributor

@harding How about:

Transactions can be processed without fees, but usually will require them for faster and
more reliable confirmation of your transactions and to remunerate miners.

(I feel current text fails to mention that user experience and security that comes with fast confirmations usually doesn't come without fees, so fees aren't only encouraged as a benevolent action for the network)

@saivann saivann commented on an outdated diff Aug 1, 2015

_translations/en.yml
fee: "How much will the transaction fee be?"
- feetxt1: "Most transactions can be processed without fees, but users are encouraged to pay a small voluntary fee for faster confirmation of their transactions and to remunerate miners. When fees are required, they generally don't exceed a few pennies in value. Your Bitcoin client will usually try to estimate an appropriate fee when required."
- feetxt2: "Transaction fees are used as a protection against users sending transactions to overload the network. The precise manner in which fees work is still being developed and will change over time. Because the fee is not related to the amount of bitcoins being sent, it may seem extremely low (0.0005 BTC for a 1,000 BTC transfer) or unfairly high (0.004 BTC for a 0.02 BTC payment). The fee is defined by attributes such as data in transaction and transaction recurrence. For example, if you are receiving a large number of tiny amounts, then fees for sending will be higher. Such payments are comparable to paying a restaurant bill using only pennies. Spending small fractions of your bitcoins rapidly may also require a fee. If your activity follows the pattern of conventional transactions, the fees should remain very low."
+ feetxt1: >
+ Transactions can be processed without fees, but users are
+ encouraged to pay a voluntary fee for faster confirmation of
+ their transactions and to remunerate miners. When fees are
+ required, they currently don't exceed a few pennies in value,
+ but this may increase over time. Your
+ Bitcoin client will pay what it thinks is an appropriate fee.
@saivann

saivann Aug 1, 2015

Contributor

@harding How about:

Your Bitcoin client will display what it think is an appropriate fee.

I feel like the current text suggests wallet will pay whatever fee they please in the background without informing the user. In reality, wallets typically show the transaction fee somewhere in the UI before the user clicks "Send".

@saivann saivann commented on the diff Aug 1, 2015

_translations/en.yml
+ their transactions and to remunerate miners. When fees are
+ required, they currently don't exceed a few pennies in value,
+ but this may increase over time. Your
+ Bitcoin client will pay what it thinks is an appropriate fee.
+
+ feetxt2: >
+ Transaction fees are used as a protection against users sending
+ transactions to overload the network. The precise manner in which
+ fees work is still being developed and will change over time.
+ Because the fee is not related to the amount of bitcoins being
+ sent, it may seem extremely low or unfairly high. Instead, the
+ fee is relative to the number of bytes in the transaction, so
+ using multisig or spending multiple previously-received amounts
+ may cost more than simpler transactions. If your activity follows
+ the pattern of conventional transactions, you won't have to pay
+ unusually high fees.
@saivann

saivann Aug 1, 2015

Contributor

@harding I thought some previous analogies and examples were still useful, how about re-including them along with your other changes:

Transaction fees are used as a protection against users sending transactions to overload the network.
The precise manner in which fees work is still being developed and will change over time. Because
the fee is not related to the amount of bitcoins being sent, it may seem extremely low or unfairly
high. Instead, the fee is defined by attributes such as the number of bytes in the transaction and
transaction recurrence. For example, if you are receiving a large number of tiny amounts, then fees
for sending will be higher. Such payments are comparable to paying a restaurant bill using only
pennies. Spending small fractions of your bitcoins rapidly may also require a fee. If your activity
follows the pattern of conventional transactions, you shouldn't have to pay unusually high fees.
@harding

harding Aug 1, 2015

Contributor

the fee is defined by attributes such as the number of bytes in the transaction and
transaction recurrence.

I think this is misleading. Miners tend to use Bitcoin Core's fee/priority evaluation code, which I believe works like this:

  • Fees are evaluated purely based on fee-per-byte. The age and value of the input (priority) plays no role here.
  • If the transaction doesn't qualify for inclusion in the block based on its fee, its priority is evaluated. Here the fee plays no additional role.

In other words, fee and priority are considered separately, but this sentence makes me feel like they're averaged together to allow high-priority transactions to pay lower fees for the same processing speed as lower-priority transactions.

Such payments are comparable to paying a restaurant bill using only pennies.

I see where this analogy was going, but it breaks down for me. I have personal experience refusing a transaction paid in an excessive number of pennies from when I worked at McDonalds in high school, 17 years ago. I think that would be the usual response to that situation; I don't know of any business besides a bank that would charge more to process loose change.

Spending small fractions of your bitcoins rapidly may also require a fee.

I think this could confuse people about how small "small fractions" are or how rapid "rapidly" is. According to my node's estimatepriority, getting a free transaction confirmed within the next 25 blocks requires 331411429.8671501 priority. So to send a 250-byte transaction with an input worth 0.1 BTC (10,000,000 satoshis) requires that input be 8286 blocks old: 331411429.8671501 / 10000000 * 250

I wouldn't describe $30 USD worth of bitcoin as small or two months worth of waiting as rapid, so I think this sentence should be removed and that we should generally treat free transactions as something for experts and curious people only.

transaction recurrence.

In case you revise, I'd suggest using a different term. Recurrence is meant to be applied to similar events separated by time. I get that receiving one Bitcoin transaction seems similar to receiving another Bitcoin transaction, but people tend to think of transactions based on what was exchanged---not the medium the exchange occurred through---so selling a pocket knife for 0.1 BTC in one transaction and a flashlight for 0.2 BTC in a different transaction doesn't seem like recurrence.


My suggestion would be to use the text in the commit, which does include examples, but I'm happy to continue working on revisions of this part of the paragraph. (I'll be pushing updated text in a moment based on the rest of your commit comments.)

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saivann commented Aug 1, 2015

Except for my comments above, LGTM up to 8fac92a. Thanks!

Contributor

harding commented Aug 1, 2015

@saivann made changes in 7b8e26f addressing all but one of your comments, and left a reply to the un-addressed comment. Thanks!

Contributor

saivann commented Aug 1, 2015

LGTM 7b8e26f, thanks!

Contributor

harding commented Aug 1, 2015

@saivann thanks for your review!

In the absence of critical feedback, this pull will be merged on Tuesday.

@harding harding merged commit 7b8e26f into bitcoin-dot-org:master Aug 5, 2015

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harding added a commit that referenced this pull request Aug 5, 2015

Merge pulls #967, #989, #991, and #994
- 967: Bitcoin Paper: Add Swedish Translation
- 989: Update text on FAQ & Innovation pages
- 991: Update quotes on Press page
- 994: [Full-Node] Added Win7 Daemon doc.
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