Proposed renaming of Openname #41

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guylepage3 opened this Issue Apr 3, 2015 · 137 comments

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guylepage3 commented Apr 3, 2015

I'd like to propose the idea of renaming the "openname" protocol as I feel there is a fundamental communication issue with the naming convention. I feel there is a better way, a more descriptive way, to communicate the protocol. A clearly identifiable name that developers and users alike will grasp.

A few services built on top of openname, like Onename (the company I work for), have used terms like "digital passport" in their communications. I actually think digital passport very aptly describes the account/profile that users get when they register as a user on the protocol.

For this reason, I'd like to explore the idea of renaming the protocol from openname to digital passport. This is a clear, descriptive name that everyone can identify with. The word "passport" is one of the most common forms of identification and is easy for everyone to visualize without putting any thought into it. And since the passport (identification) is a virtual form of ID it's only natural to call it a "digital" passport.

We have been sharing this new concept with others in the community over the past month or so in order to get other's feedback and the idea has been well received. The concepts "passport" and "digital passport" are very clear to all of the users that we've spoken to. Conversely, the concept of an "openname" usually takes some time to communicate. Users are very likely to ask, "what is openname?"

From a marketing/communications point of view I could see users adopting, "I have a digital passport." As opposed to, "I have an openname username." Another point to be made is that users mostly used the word "openname" to refer to the "username". So what do you get when you register on the system? Well, you get a "digital passport" i.e., your profile. By using the term "digital passport," it gives the user visual recognition that they can identify as a tangible object in their mind. Something one owns and holds onto for life.

I hope everyone will consider this change for, what I feel is, the better of the protocol and the community.

Cheers, Guy

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I do like digital passport more than openname.

Digital Passport is like Electronic Mail. Everyone understood what "Mail" was and could comprehend that this is the electronic version of mail. Similarly, everyone knows about passport -- it is your identity plus gives you access to places. And people can comprehend that there can be a digital version of a passport as well (for both online and offline world).

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muneeb-ali commented Apr 3, 2015

I do like digital passport more than openname.

Digital Passport is like Electronic Mail. Everyone understood what "Mail" was and could comprehend that this is the electronic version of mail. Similarly, everyone knows about passport -- it is your identity plus gives you access to places. And people can comprehend that there can be a digital version of a passport as well (for both online and offline world).

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muneeb-ali Apr 3, 2015

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Should get feedback from others CC: @taoeffect @jcnelson @bmuller @denisnazarov @larrysalibra @ibrahimahmed443 @kef @arbedout @lowks

< feel free to add other people to the conversation, especially folks who've sent pull requests and/or helped with design discussions etc >

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muneeb-ali commented Apr 3, 2015

Should get feedback from others CC: @taoeffect @jcnelson @bmuller @denisnazarov @larrysalibra @ibrahimahmed443 @kef @arbedout @lowks

< feel free to add other people to the conversation, especially folks who've sent pull requests and/or helped with design discussions etc >

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I have warmed up to the idea since we last talked in person. "Digital passport" more accurately captures the essence of the protocol more than "openname."

However, there is a name conflict: https://www.digitalpassport.org/. So, what if instead of using "digital passport" as the name for the protocol, we continued to use "openname" but had the opening sentence "Openname is a digital passport" to clarify what "openname" means?

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jcnelson commented Apr 3, 2015

I have warmed up to the idea since we last talked in person. "Digital passport" more accurately captures the essence of the protocol more than "openname."

However, there is a name conflict: https://www.digitalpassport.org/. So, what if instead of using "digital passport" as the name for the protocol, we continued to use "openname" but had the opening sentence "Openname is a digital passport" to clarify what "openname" means?

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Great to hear that you've warmed up to the idea!

Can get another domain instead of .org. I'd be more concerned if there was already a protocol/technology called "Digital Passport", which doesn't seem like the case?

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muneeb-ali commented Apr 3, 2015

Great to hear that you've warmed up to the idea!

Can get another domain instead of .org. I'd be more concerned if there was already a protocol/technology called "Digital Passport", which doesn't seem like the case?

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Great analogy with email @muneeb-ali.

@jcnelson, very valid point. In an ideal world that TLD would have been perfect. But the focus should definitely be on proper representation of the protocol. I think digital passport clearly defines this.

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guylepage3 commented Apr 3, 2015

Great analogy with email @muneeb-ali.

@jcnelson, very valid point. In an ideal world that TLD would have been perfect. But the focus should definitely be on proper representation of the protocol. I think digital passport clearly defines this.

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Passport Wikipedia Entry: "A passport is a travel document, usually issued by the government of a nation, that certifies the identity and nationality of its holder for the purpose of international travel."

I think this is a negative connotation because passports are issued by centralized governments, and nationality and borders are significant global issues. The negative connotation is less obvious from an American perspective because we are fortunate to have minimal travel restrictions all over the world, while other nationals must go through difficult visa processes, etc.

The World Passport entry is interesting, where it is not just a document for travel, but "neutral, apolitical document of identity". I think the name of the project should instantly instill that feeling, and Openname does it better than Digital Passport.

Calling something a digital passport is also an unnecessary skeumorphism, but I understand that you are trying to create an easy metaphor.

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denisnazarov commented Apr 3, 2015

Passport Wikipedia Entry: "A passport is a travel document, usually issued by the government of a nation, that certifies the identity and nationality of its holder for the purpose of international travel."

I think this is a negative connotation because passports are issued by centralized governments, and nationality and borders are significant global issues. The negative connotation is less obvious from an American perspective because we are fortunate to have minimal travel restrictions all over the world, while other nationals must go through difficult visa processes, etc.

The World Passport entry is interesting, where it is not just a document for travel, but "neutral, apolitical document of identity". I think the name of the project should instantly instill that feeling, and Openname does it better than Digital Passport.

Calling something a digital passport is also an unnecessary skeumorphism, but I understand that you are trying to create an easy metaphor.

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I agree that "digital passport" is a much clearer communicating the value proposition for users and developers. Openname is also so similar to Onename that its easy to confuse the two.

I've seen the problem @guylepage3 mentions of "openname username" in code, but haven't seen it from a user perspective, so don't think it should be a concern: What's my openname? It's "larry". Only if I need to differentiate the key portion from the rest of the profile would I call "larry" my "openname username". I haven't seen this problem in normal conversation.

I do agree with @denisnazarov the passport has negative real world connotations - just went through immigration 4 times in the past twelve hours and there are always a fewpeople (mostly from developing countries) having passport related immigration issues. Not sure if they outweigh the clearer communication of "digital passport"

Digital passport is also quite a mouthful - it would be great if we can figure out how to shorten it up. No one calls email "electronic mail".

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larrysalibra commented Apr 3, 2015

I agree that "digital passport" is a much clearer communicating the value proposition for users and developers. Openname is also so similar to Onename that its easy to confuse the two.

I've seen the problem @guylepage3 mentions of "openname username" in code, but haven't seen it from a user perspective, so don't think it should be a concern: What's my openname? It's "larry". Only if I need to differentiate the key portion from the rest of the profile would I call "larry" my "openname username". I haven't seen this problem in normal conversation.

I do agree with @denisnazarov the passport has negative real world connotations - just went through immigration 4 times in the past twelve hours and there are always a fewpeople (mostly from developing countries) having passport related immigration issues. Not sure if they outweigh the clearer communication of "digital passport"

Digital passport is also quite a mouthful - it would be great if we can figure out how to shorten it up. No one calls email "electronic mail".

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@denisnazarov Interesting take on digital passport. Never thought of it like that. Being a well-travelled foreigner, I've always viewed my passport as a positive thing... My entry into other places and, more often than not, my number one form of identification.

Agreed about definition. Even Merriam-Websters definition of passport states ": an official document issued by the government of a country that identifies someone as a citizen of that country and that is usually necessary when entering or leaving a country: something that allows a person to achieve something". This definition strikes me as a bit odd that there is no mention that a passport is a form of identification as that same "government" who issues the document(s), undeniably, views those documents as one of the major sources of identification. Yet there is no mention of it in the definition.

Throughout the history of the English language terms, words and names have been added, removed, changed or evolved. Every now and then Merriam-Websters updates definitions based upon the era one is living. Is it possible that the definition of passport could use updating?

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guylepage3 commented Apr 3, 2015

@denisnazarov Interesting take on digital passport. Never thought of it like that. Being a well-travelled foreigner, I've always viewed my passport as a positive thing... My entry into other places and, more often than not, my number one form of identification.

Agreed about definition. Even Merriam-Websters definition of passport states ": an official document issued by the government of a country that identifies someone as a citizen of that country and that is usually necessary when entering or leaving a country: something that allows a person to achieve something". This definition strikes me as a bit odd that there is no mention that a passport is a form of identification as that same "government" who issues the document(s), undeniably, views those documents as one of the major sources of identification. Yet there is no mention of it in the definition.

Throughout the history of the English language terms, words and names have been added, removed, changed or evolved. Every now and then Merriam-Websters updates definitions based upon the era one is living. Is it possible that the definition of passport could use updating?

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What about just calling it "Passport"? Drop the "digital" - no one is going to confuse it with government issued paper passports.

"Login with Passport"
"Built on Passport"
"Powered by Passport"
"Information comes from your Passport"

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larrysalibra commented Apr 3, 2015

What about just calling it "Passport"? Drop the "digital" - no one is going to confuse it with government issued paper passports.

"Login with Passport"
"Built on Passport"
"Powered by Passport"
"Information comes from your Passport"

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@larrysalibra from the users perspective, a digital passport is a simpler concept to grasp. "What's my openname? It's larry." works for when you are simply talking about the protocol username but when someone visualizes openname they think "username" and that's it. The name digital passport instantly garners an image in someone's mind. From a UX point of view that is magic. A user reads the name and has a, albeit rough, understanding of what the protocol could possibly do.

As for the "immigration issues"... Those individuals were having exactly that... "immigration issues". There is a good change that that had nothing to do with their passport.

I definitely like the simplicity of calling it "Passport" but I disagree. I feel users could get confused. "Is this a government issued?" I also feel that passport on it's own has already been fully defined as a passport. Changing a user's mind is a large task. Also there has been quite a few companies that have branded products as "Passport". I feel this poses a problem as well.

Agreed that no one calls email, "Electronic Mail" anymore. But that's what email is in long-form. I also feel that digital passport could be shortened by users down the road. I can see users doing this and eventually, when the digital passport has 100% fully replaced legacy passports users would probably drop the "digital".

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guylepage3 commented Apr 3, 2015

@larrysalibra from the users perspective, a digital passport is a simpler concept to grasp. "What's my openname? It's larry." works for when you are simply talking about the protocol username but when someone visualizes openname they think "username" and that's it. The name digital passport instantly garners an image in someone's mind. From a UX point of view that is magic. A user reads the name and has a, albeit rough, understanding of what the protocol could possibly do.

As for the "immigration issues"... Those individuals were having exactly that... "immigration issues". There is a good change that that had nothing to do with their passport.

I definitely like the simplicity of calling it "Passport" but I disagree. I feel users could get confused. "Is this a government issued?" I also feel that passport on it's own has already been fully defined as a passport. Changing a user's mind is a large task. Also there has been quite a few companies that have branded products as "Passport". I feel this poses a problem as well.

Agreed that no one calls email, "Electronic Mail" anymore. But that's what email is in long-form. I also feel that digital passport could be shortened by users down the road. I can see users doing this and eventually, when the digital passport has 100% fully replaced legacy passports users would probably drop the "digital".

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ricmoo Apr 3, 2015

It does seem like a mouthful, but I have always thought of my passport in a positive light, unlocking freedom to move around and see the rest of the world. And digital passport could be thought of with a "government of issuance" of "the internet", in which case I think passport is even more apt, as a passport isn't merely identification, it's ideally a unique, authoritative, unforgeable, universal means of identification.

I do like the word "open" though, as it clearly identifies the standard is not entrenched with proprietary ownership in some company's talons. Not that I'm necessarily suggesting "open passport", but I'm also not necessarily not suggesting it.

One other note though, is for something more generic, I would want a name space added, so (again, not a suggestion, just a means to explain my idea), I would rather see something akin to:

dp://onename/ricmoo

for Digital Passport, via onename with the identity ricmoo... This way in the future when something other than namecoin is used, for example, Ethereum, old and new can work in tandem... Maybe dp://namecoin/ricmoo or such, but include the namespace which we are trusting to provide the digital passport. If it becomes a widely accepted standard, you could imaging governments also using it, with dp://canada.ca/ricmoo (some digital passport authorities could be centralized).

Just my few seconds of thinking about this. I'm sure I will have more after I think about it more.

ricmoo commented Apr 3, 2015

It does seem like a mouthful, but I have always thought of my passport in a positive light, unlocking freedom to move around and see the rest of the world. And digital passport could be thought of with a "government of issuance" of "the internet", in which case I think passport is even more apt, as a passport isn't merely identification, it's ideally a unique, authoritative, unforgeable, universal means of identification.

I do like the word "open" though, as it clearly identifies the standard is not entrenched with proprietary ownership in some company's talons. Not that I'm necessarily suggesting "open passport", but I'm also not necessarily not suggesting it.

One other note though, is for something more generic, I would want a name space added, so (again, not a suggestion, just a means to explain my idea), I would rather see something akin to:

dp://onename/ricmoo

for Digital Passport, via onename with the identity ricmoo... This way in the future when something other than namecoin is used, for example, Ethereum, old and new can work in tandem... Maybe dp://namecoin/ricmoo or such, but include the namespace which we are trusting to provide the digital passport. If it becomes a widely accepted standard, you could imaging governments also using it, with dp://canada.ca/ricmoo (some digital passport authorities could be centralized).

Just my few seconds of thinking about this. I'm sure I will have more after I think about it more.

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Passports today are not simply a verification of a name, but an identity
associated with a government responsible for the actions of its citizens
through courts of law. If we want to build decentralized citizenship, we
need more than openname: We need a decentralized trust system where trust
is measured as a projected number and can be assessed independently and
tied to the namecoin name. Thus, I don't think the name "digital passport"
for openname is appropriate; but openname can be a part of this research
effort.

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dionyziz commented Apr 3, 2015

Passports today are not simply a verification of a name, but an identity
associated with a government responsible for the actions of its citizens
through courts of law. If we want to build decentralized citizenship, we
need more than openname: We need a decentralized trust system where trust
is measured as a projected number and can be assessed independently and
tied to the namecoin name. Thus, I don't think the name "digital passport"
for openname is appropriate; but openname can be a part of this research
effort.

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Passports today are not simply a verification of a name, but an identity associated with a government responsible for the actions of its citizens through courts of law.
[..]
Thus, I don't think the name "digital passport" for openname is appropriate; but openname can be a part of this research effort.

I pretty much said the same thing a few weeks ago in a Skype convo. I don't like "digital passport" for these reasons. It will confuse people. The word passport has heavy baggage already associated with it that has nothing to do with Openname.

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taoeffect commented Apr 4, 2015

Passports today are not simply a verification of a name, but an identity associated with a government responsible for the actions of its citizens through courts of law.
[..]
Thus, I don't think the name "digital passport" for openname is appropriate; but openname can be a part of this research effort.

I pretty much said the same thing a few weeks ago in a Skype convo. I don't like "digital passport" for these reasons. It will confuse people. The word passport has heavy baggage already associated with it that has nothing to do with Openname.

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mwmeyer Apr 4, 2015

Just to chime in quickly from an outsiders perspective (I am subscribed as a watcher to this and other BC/Crypto github projects and have been to a few meetups where the onename folks have presented, but haven't yet dived into any code).

I agree that something is slightly a miss with the openname branding. Firstly, it is very easy to mix up with other generic "OpenX" projects, especially OpenID which is in a related space. I am sure this is and will continue to be a source of confusion for new comers to the project.

Secondly, the consecutive nn in openname is a bother. For whatever reason, people might use slight variations on the name. For example, using two words (Open Name), one word with a capital n (openName) or dropping of the second n all together (opename) may arise. Thats a very superficial detail, but so is everything in marketing.

Also, regarding concerns that "Digital Passport" is a mouthful, users could maybe opt to shorten the protocol in their communications to dPass, in a vein similar to oAuth for "Open Authorization"?

mwmeyer commented Apr 4, 2015

Just to chime in quickly from an outsiders perspective (I am subscribed as a watcher to this and other BC/Crypto github projects and have been to a few meetups where the onename folks have presented, but haven't yet dived into any code).

I agree that something is slightly a miss with the openname branding. Firstly, it is very easy to mix up with other generic "OpenX" projects, especially OpenID which is in a related space. I am sure this is and will continue to be a source of confusion for new comers to the project.

Secondly, the consecutive nn in openname is a bother. For whatever reason, people might use slight variations on the name. For example, using two words (Open Name), one word with a capital n (openName) or dropping of the second n all together (opename) may arise. Thats a very superficial detail, but so is everything in marketing.

Also, regarding concerns that "Digital Passport" is a mouthful, users could maybe opt to shorten the protocol in their communications to dPass, in a vein similar to oAuth for "Open Authorization"?

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cpacia Apr 4, 2015

I agree with others that onename/openname creates confusion among users. Digital passport should fix it although I do tend to agree it's a mouthful. I good shorthand notation might do well here.

cpacia commented Apr 4, 2015

I agree with others that onename/openname creates confusion among users. Digital passport should fix it although I do tend to agree it's a mouthful. I good shorthand notation might do well here.

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And digital passport could be thought of with a "government of issuance" of "the internet", in which case I think passport is even more apt, as a passport isn't merely identification, it's ideally a unique, authoritative, unforgeable, universal means of identification.

I think this was very well said. This is exactly why I think "digital passport" so aptly captures the identities in this system. It feels secure. It feels official. Unique, unforgeable and universal are amazing adjectives to describe it.

Also, I think it's important to consider that "digital passport" communicates very well that it's about "identity on the web" and it's clear that it could be used "around" the internet, for example for logging into websites.

Try this - ask people at a bar what a "digital passport" is. I've personally tried this many times myself and I was blown away at the results. Out of the people I asked, 50-60% thought it was for "logging into websites" or some variation thereof. The rest thought it was a digital version of a passport for traveling (I would love to have more scientific results for this, but these are just rough estimates). You could say the percentage should be higher, but I actually think this is a great figure, and in context, the figure would be even higher.

If you try this for "openname", "blockchain id", "passport", and other names, you just don't get the same results, unfortunately. As it turns out, "digital passport" is a powerful concept when talking to the average person.

Furthermore, I think it's very important for a fundamental generic protocol to have a concept that will be instantly communicated to people via the name (e.g. "electronic mail", "mobile phone", "private key", "domain name"), as opposed to a strong brand (e.g. "Square", "Circle"), which is great for a company. "digital passport" falls into the former category while "openname" falls into the latter. The former tends to gain more widespread adoption and become more fundamental. It is more likely to become a standard, and be adopted by cypherpunks, mainstream users, governments, and companies alike.

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shea256 commented Apr 5, 2015

@ricmoo

And digital passport could be thought of with a "government of issuance" of "the internet", in which case I think passport is even more apt, as a passport isn't merely identification, it's ideally a unique, authoritative, unforgeable, universal means of identification.

I think this was very well said. This is exactly why I think "digital passport" so aptly captures the identities in this system. It feels secure. It feels official. Unique, unforgeable and universal are amazing adjectives to describe it.

Also, I think it's important to consider that "digital passport" communicates very well that it's about "identity on the web" and it's clear that it could be used "around" the internet, for example for logging into websites.

Try this - ask people at a bar what a "digital passport" is. I've personally tried this many times myself and I was blown away at the results. Out of the people I asked, 50-60% thought it was for "logging into websites" or some variation thereof. The rest thought it was a digital version of a passport for traveling (I would love to have more scientific results for this, but these are just rough estimates). You could say the percentage should be higher, but I actually think this is a great figure, and in context, the figure would be even higher.

If you try this for "openname", "blockchain id", "passport", and other names, you just don't get the same results, unfortunately. As it turns out, "digital passport" is a powerful concept when talking to the average person.

Furthermore, I think it's very important for a fundamental generic protocol to have a concept that will be instantly communicated to people via the name (e.g. "electronic mail", "mobile phone", "private key", "domain name"), as opposed to a strong brand (e.g. "Square", "Circle"), which is great for a company. "digital passport" falls into the former category while "openname" falls into the latter. The former tends to gain more widespread adoption and become more fundamental. It is more likely to become a standard, and be adopted by cypherpunks, mainstream users, governments, and companies alike.

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@mwmeyer good point, we've experienced a lot of confusion around the word "openname" and this is one of the main things that got us thinking about a rename.

And yes @mwmeyer @cpacia, I think users will shorten "digital passport" to "dpass" over time. But I think it's valuable to officially refer to it using the full name, at least in the short term. Email started out as "electronic mail" in order to communicate that it's like mail but on the internet and then eventually people adopted the name "e-mail" and then just "email".

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shea256 commented Apr 5, 2015

@mwmeyer good point, we've experienced a lot of confusion around the word "openname" and this is one of the main things that got us thinking about a rename.

And yes @mwmeyer @cpacia, I think users will shorten "digital passport" to "dpass" over time. But I think it's valuable to officially refer to it using the full name, at least in the short term. Email started out as "electronic mail" in order to communicate that it's like mail but on the internet and then eventually people adopted the name "e-mail" and then just "email".

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jbenet Apr 5, 2015

  • electronic mail does not just mean GMail, or even SMTP, though in practice most mail travels over SMTP. electronic mail means digital correspondence over a computer network.
  • digital passport should be an open standard around identity + credentials on the internet, with many possible implementations. not an organization, or a specific network. In essence, a class of protocols, not a single one.

If you pursue that name for your one protocol, you'll likely get some of the benefits early on (good name, etc), and garner strong ill will / push back from people who will call it out as very presumptuous. (not even facebook called its identity thing a digital passport). I don't regard it a safe name to use for your one protocol. I do think it's a great name for the type of thing you're doing though.

I'd use it as a tagline: OpenName is a digital passport -- actually, you may want to do something like, OpenPassport which is more like a proper name and less like a class of things.

jbenet commented Apr 5, 2015

  • electronic mail does not just mean GMail, or even SMTP, though in practice most mail travels over SMTP. electronic mail means digital correspondence over a computer network.
  • digital passport should be an open standard around identity + credentials on the internet, with many possible implementations. not an organization, or a specific network. In essence, a class of protocols, not a single one.

If you pursue that name for your one protocol, you'll likely get some of the benefits early on (good name, etc), and garner strong ill will / push back from people who will call it out as very presumptuous. (not even facebook called its identity thing a digital passport). I don't regard it a safe name to use for your one protocol. I do think it's a great name for the type of thing you're doing though.

I'd use it as a tagline: OpenName is a digital passport -- actually, you may want to do something like, OpenPassport which is more like a proper name and less like a class of things.

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Looping in @georgetapia

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guylepage3 commented Apr 5, 2015

Looping in @georgetapia

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@jbenet wrote:

I'd use it as a tagline: OpenName is a digital passport -- actually, you may want to do something like, OpenPassport which is more like a proper name and less like a class of things.

👍

That sounds perfect.

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taoeffect commented Apr 5, 2015

@jbenet wrote:

I'd use it as a tagline: OpenName is a digital passport -- actually, you may want to do something like, OpenPassport which is more like a proper name and less like a class of things.

👍

That sounds perfect.

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That sounds perfect.

* perfect if you're going to stick with the word "passport" that is. :P

Try this - ask people at a bar what a "digital passport" is. I've personally tried this many times myself and I was blown away at the results. Out of the people I asked, 50-60% thought it was for "logging into websites" or some variation thereof.

I'll bet you'll have similar results if you ask them what a "digital ID", "digital login", "internet ID", "electronic ID", "web ID", etc. are.

I would be curious to know what Joe Average thinks about "ID" and "login", vs. "passport". Would she/he also share our concerns about the baggage associated with the word "passport"?

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taoeffect commented Apr 5, 2015

That sounds perfect.

* perfect if you're going to stick with the word "passport" that is. :P

Try this - ask people at a bar what a "digital passport" is. I've personally tried this many times myself and I was blown away at the results. Out of the people I asked, 50-60% thought it was for "logging into websites" or some variation thereof.

I'll bet you'll have similar results if you ask them what a "digital ID", "digital login", "internet ID", "electronic ID", "web ID", etc. are.

I would be curious to know what Joe Average thinks about "ID" and "login", vs. "passport". Would she/he also share our concerns about the baggage associated with the word "passport"?

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@jbenet wrote:

If you pursue that name for your one protocol, you'll likely get some of the benefits early on (good name, etc), and garner strong ill will / push back from people who will call it out as very presumptuous. (not even facebook called its identity thing a digital passport). I don't regard it a safe name to use for your one protocol. I do think it's a great name for the type of thing you're doing though.

People will think we're presumptuous? Great! That means they think this a problem worth solving. Better than apathy or confusion.

Is Openname really just a protocol? I signed up for a movement! 😃

@shea256 wrote:

I think it's very important for a fundamental generic protocol to have a concept that will be instantly communicated to people via the name (e.g. "electronic mail", "mobile phone", "private key", "domain name"), as opposed to a strong brand (e.g. "Square", "Circle"), which is great for a company. "digital passport" falls into the former category while "openname" falls into the latter.

You're right: Openname doesn't really communicate anything except for having something to do with a name, being "open" (which has its own negative connotations in some circles) and, as a friend who doesn't have a github account said, "something that is 'techie'".


@guylepage3 wrote:

I definitely like the simplicity of calling it "Passport" but I disagree. I feel users could get confused. "Is this a government issued?" I also feel that passport on it's own has already been fully defined as a passport.

On second thought, I agree simply using "Passport" would confuse people. I can imagine the tech support emails: "I don't have a passport, can I use my driver's license with your site?"

A nice thing about "Digital Passport" is that governments have gone with "Electronic Passport" or "e-Passport" for their passport book with RFID chip initiatives. That removes a potential point of confusion.


@guylepage3 wrote:

As for the "immigration issues"... Those individuals were having exactly that... "immigration issues". There is a good change that that had nothing to do with their passport.

I thought about this more - you're right. The people I know that have horrible immigration experiences (because of having a passport from a developing country) don't want no passport, they want a better passport. A better passport is their ticket to happiness.


I'm sold. Let's do this!


PS: I see @shea256 has already registered @digitalpassport and started work on https://digitalpassport.info/ - Great!

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larrysalibra commented Apr 5, 2015

@jbenet wrote:

If you pursue that name for your one protocol, you'll likely get some of the benefits early on (good name, etc), and garner strong ill will / push back from people who will call it out as very presumptuous. (not even facebook called its identity thing a digital passport). I don't regard it a safe name to use for your one protocol. I do think it's a great name for the type of thing you're doing though.

People will think we're presumptuous? Great! That means they think this a problem worth solving. Better than apathy or confusion.

Is Openname really just a protocol? I signed up for a movement! 😃

@shea256 wrote:

I think it's very important for a fundamental generic protocol to have a concept that will be instantly communicated to people via the name (e.g. "electronic mail", "mobile phone", "private key", "domain name"), as opposed to a strong brand (e.g. "Square", "Circle"), which is great for a company. "digital passport" falls into the former category while "openname" falls into the latter.

You're right: Openname doesn't really communicate anything except for having something to do with a name, being "open" (which has its own negative connotations in some circles) and, as a friend who doesn't have a github account said, "something that is 'techie'".


@guylepage3 wrote:

I definitely like the simplicity of calling it "Passport" but I disagree. I feel users could get confused. "Is this a government issued?" I also feel that passport on it's own has already been fully defined as a passport.

On second thought, I agree simply using "Passport" would confuse people. I can imagine the tech support emails: "I don't have a passport, can I use my driver's license with your site?"

A nice thing about "Digital Passport" is that governments have gone with "Electronic Passport" or "e-Passport" for their passport book with RFID chip initiatives. That removes a potential point of confusion.


@guylepage3 wrote:

As for the "immigration issues"... Those individuals were having exactly that... "immigration issues". There is a good change that that had nothing to do with their passport.

I thought about this more - you're right. The people I know that have horrible immigration experiences (because of having a passport from a developing country) don't want no passport, they want a better passport. A better passport is their ticket to happiness.


I'm sold. Let's do this!


PS: I see @shea256 has already registered @digitalpassport and started work on https://digitalpassport.info/ - Great!

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@taoeffect you mentioned a bunch of names with "ID" - I suppose you like that flavor of names better? Would you prefer something like "digital id" to "digital passport"?

I'm just personally less a fan of "id" because it seems more plain and less evocative than "passport."

That said maybe it could work, would love to hear your thoughts.

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shea256 commented Apr 5, 2015

@taoeffect you mentioned a bunch of names with "ID" - I suppose you like that flavor of names better? Would you prefer something like "digital id" to "digital passport"?

I'm just personally less a fan of "id" because it seems more plain and less evocative than "passport."

That said maybe it could work, would love to hear your thoughts.

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@ricmoo wrote:

It does seem like a mouthful, but I have always thought of my passport in a positive light, unlocking freedom to move around and see the rest of the world.

Completely agree. It's not only about positive light, it's also about importance. Your passport is a very important document for you and people keep it safe. When you're traveling, you don't want to lose your passport. There is a natural analogy here with a decentralized identity that people own. They can understand that if they lose access to their "digital passport" bad things will happen to them.

Also, I was talking to Umar Saif, who is leading a lot of IT efforts in Pakistan, about blockchain based ID and realized that if a country like Pakistan is to adopt blockchain based identity then the gov organization responsible for implementing the project is literally the same organization that currently issues passports to people (it's called NADRA). Calling it "digital passport" fits so naturally. Ordinary people can understand that they used to go to NADRA to get their passport and now NADRA is giving them their "digital passport" as well.

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muneeb-ali commented Apr 5, 2015

@ricmoo wrote:

It does seem like a mouthful, but I have always thought of my passport in a positive light, unlocking freedom to move around and see the rest of the world.

Completely agree. It's not only about positive light, it's also about importance. Your passport is a very important document for you and people keep it safe. When you're traveling, you don't want to lose your passport. There is a natural analogy here with a decentralized identity that people own. They can understand that if they lose access to their "digital passport" bad things will happen to them.

Also, I was talking to Umar Saif, who is leading a lot of IT efforts in Pakistan, about blockchain based ID and realized that if a country like Pakistan is to adopt blockchain based identity then the gov organization responsible for implementing the project is literally the same organization that currently issues passports to people (it's called NADRA). Calling it "digital passport" fits so naturally. Ordinary people can understand that they used to go to NADRA to get their passport and now NADRA is giving them their "digital passport" as well.

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ghost Apr 5, 2015

lots of great thoughts on this @guylepage3 I do like digitalpassport and it definitely meshes with the world of open source and world views. A global digital passport for all!!!

ghost commented Apr 5, 2015

lots of great thoughts on this @guylepage3 I do like digitalpassport and it definitely meshes with the world of open source and world views. A global digital passport for all!!!

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Thanks @youdiscoverus. I agree. Digital passport does have that global feel to it.

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guylepage3 commented Apr 5, 2015

Thanks @youdiscoverus. I agree. Digital passport does have that global feel to it.

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@jbenet wrote:

digital passport should be an open standard around identity + credentials on the internet, with many possible implementations.

Absolutely, agree on this. SMTP can be replaced, but "email" will live. We have thought about some protocol name separate from "Digital Passport" which is more developer-facing. Just like most Internet don't need to know about SMTP, they won't need to know about the specific identity/naming protocol being used for their "Digital Passport". Some options:

  1. Open Name System (ONS) -- this was inspired by DNS
  2. Secure Naming System (SNS)
  3. Secure Identity Protocol (SIP)
  4. DP/SN (Digital Passport over Secure Naming)

Other suggestions are welcome. These are just some ideas. Not really sold on any.

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muneeb-ali commented Apr 5, 2015

@jbenet wrote:

digital passport should be an open standard around identity + credentials on the internet, with many possible implementations.

Absolutely, agree on this. SMTP can be replaced, but "email" will live. We have thought about some protocol name separate from "Digital Passport" which is more developer-facing. Just like most Internet don't need to know about SMTP, they won't need to know about the specific identity/naming protocol being used for their "Digital Passport". Some options:

  1. Open Name System (ONS) -- this was inspired by DNS
  2. Secure Naming System (SNS)
  3. Secure Identity Protocol (SIP)
  4. DP/SN (Digital Passport over Secure Naming)

Other suggestions are welcome. These are just some ideas. Not really sold on any.

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@mwmeyer wrote:

I agree that something is slightly a miss with the openname branding. Firstly, it is very easy to mix up with other generic "OpenX" projects, especially OpenID which is in a related space.

Yes! I get so confused by all the OpenX projects. OpenCloud, OpenFlow, OpenStack, and so on. Everything is Open now.

Oh and adding more to the @jbenet comment above about electronic mail vs. SMTP. For OpenFlow, they eventually started using SDN (Software Defined Networking) to describe the standard/architecture and OpenFlow is one specific implementation of it. Here is an interesting excerpt from wikipedia:

SDN requires some method for the control plane to communicate with the data plane. One such mechanism, OpenFlow, is often misunderstood to be equivalent to SDN, but other mechanisms could also fit into the concept.
source

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muneeb-ali commented Apr 5, 2015

@mwmeyer wrote:

I agree that something is slightly a miss with the openname branding. Firstly, it is very easy to mix up with other generic "OpenX" projects, especially OpenID which is in a related space.

Yes! I get so confused by all the OpenX projects. OpenCloud, OpenFlow, OpenStack, and so on. Everything is Open now.

Oh and adding more to the @jbenet comment above about electronic mail vs. SMTP. For OpenFlow, they eventually started using SDN (Software Defined Networking) to describe the standard/architecture and OpenFlow is one specific implementation of it. Here is an interesting excerpt from wikipedia:

SDN requires some method for the control plane to communicate with the data plane. One such mechanism, OpenFlow, is often misunderstood to be equivalent to SDN, but other mechanisms could also fit into the concept.
source

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@muneeb-ali wrote:

Absolutely, agree on this. SMTP can be replaced, but "email" will live. We have thought about some protocol name separate from "Digital Passport" which is more developer-facing.

Sure, you and your friends could replace SMTP with your own custom protocol and call it email, but the rest of the world isn't going to call your email "email" unless its interoperable with their email.

In the beginning, Digital Passport (or whatever name is chosen) should refer to a specific specification, implementation & namespace, otherwise end users are going to be confused about why their Digital Passport doesn't work someplace that asks for a Digital Passport.

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larrysalibra commented Apr 5, 2015

@muneeb-ali wrote:

Absolutely, agree on this. SMTP can be replaced, but "email" will live. We have thought about some protocol name separate from "Digital Passport" which is more developer-facing.

Sure, you and your friends could replace SMTP with your own custom protocol and call it email, but the rest of the world isn't going to call your email "email" unless its interoperable with their email.

In the beginning, Digital Passport (or whatever name is chosen) should refer to a specific specification, implementation & namespace, otherwise end users are going to be confused about why their Digital Passport doesn't work someplace that asks for a Digital Passport.

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@shea256 wrote:

@taoeffect you mentioned a bunch of names with "ID" - I suppose you like that flavor of names better? Would you prefer something like "digital id" to "digital passport"?

I'm just personally less a fan of "id" because it seems more plain and less evocative than "passport."

That said maybe it could work, would love to hear your thoughts.

I think it's great that you've opened this topic to community feedback. That in of itself is a great sign.

My personal concern is not so much with the name as it is to see real decentralized ownership of identity happen. I care less so what it ends up being called.

You could call it a "Ferengi Credential" and I'd be happy with it as long as it worked, protected people's privacy, and people were using it instead of Facebook Login, etc.

That said, if the name you choose ends up negatively impacting adoption, that would be a concern that I think we would all share.

So far it seems like people are mostly rallying around "Digital Passport", for whatever reason. Myself and a few others have raised the concern that the word "passport" comes with the unnecessary baggage of reminding people of government bureaucracy, surveillance, and restrictions.

That is why I prefer words like "ID" and anything else that does not evoke such imagery.

However, again, if you can get privacy-preserving, decentralized ownership of digital identities working, then I'm happy.

Thanks for opening this up to community feedback! 👍

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taoeffect commented Apr 5, 2015

@shea256 wrote:

@taoeffect you mentioned a bunch of names with "ID" - I suppose you like that flavor of names better? Would you prefer something like "digital id" to "digital passport"?

I'm just personally less a fan of "id" because it seems more plain and less evocative than "passport."

That said maybe it could work, would love to hear your thoughts.

I think it's great that you've opened this topic to community feedback. That in of itself is a great sign.

My personal concern is not so much with the name as it is to see real decentralized ownership of identity happen. I care less so what it ends up being called.

You could call it a "Ferengi Credential" and I'd be happy with it as long as it worked, protected people's privacy, and people were using it instead of Facebook Login, etc.

That said, if the name you choose ends up negatively impacting adoption, that would be a concern that I think we would all share.

So far it seems like people are mostly rallying around "Digital Passport", for whatever reason. Myself and a few others have raised the concern that the word "passport" comes with the unnecessary baggage of reminding people of government bureaucracy, surveillance, and restrictions.

That is why I prefer words like "ID" and anything else that does not evoke such imagery.

However, again, if you can get privacy-preserving, decentralized ownership of digital identities working, then I'm happy.

Thanks for opening this up to community feedback! 👍

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One more thing:

If you do end up choosing "Digital Passport", you might want to promote/adopt the use of a shorthand like "dpass" (as others have mentioned already).

Dig-it-al Pass-port is five syllables long. E-mail is two syllables. Popular names tend to be shorter because shorter names are easier to pronounce and are also more memorable.

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taoeffect commented Apr 5, 2015

One more thing:

If you do end up choosing "Digital Passport", you might want to promote/adopt the use of a shorthand like "dpass" (as others have mentioned already).

Dig-it-al Pass-port is five syllables long. E-mail is two syllables. Popular names tend to be shorter because shorter names are easier to pronounce and are also more memorable.

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Another advantage of d-pass is that it hides the word passport. :)

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taoeffect commented Apr 5, 2015

Another advantage of d-pass is that it hides the word passport. :)

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How to write d-pass?

  • dPass
  • Dpass
  • D-pass
  • DPass

I'll throw in a vote for dPass. It just looks cooler.

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taoeffect commented Apr 5, 2015

How to write d-pass?

  • dPass
  • Dpass
  • D-pass
  • DPass

I'll throw in a vote for dPass. It just looks cooler.

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Finally, no doubt if you choose Digital Passport, those of us with more juvenile minds will snicker whenever we see it shortened to DP, as it invariably will. Another reason you might want to write it as dP. 😜

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taoeffect commented Apr 5, 2015

Finally, no doubt if you choose Digital Passport, those of us with more juvenile minds will snicker whenever we see it shortened to DP, as it invariably will. Another reason you might want to write it as dP. 😜

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hoffmabc Apr 5, 2015

Microsoft Passport was a disaster and that all I can think of when I hear this. Why not Universal Credential or OneCredential or OpenCred?

hoffmabc commented Apr 5, 2015

Microsoft Passport was a disaster and that all I can think of when I hear this. Why not Universal Credential or OneCredential or OpenCred?

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I've got it!

MULTIPASS!

multipass

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

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taoeffect commented Apr 5, 2015

I've got it!

MULTIPASS!

multipass

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

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cpacia Apr 6, 2015

@taoeffect perfect! (And that movie just happens to be on tv right now).

cpacia commented Apr 6, 2015

@taoeffect perfect! (And that movie just happens to be on tv right now).

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@taoeffect @cpacia Haha.. Awesome! We have talked about Microsoft Passport. This community has nothing to do with Microsoft. Passport definitely is not a negative thing. But I do like "Pass". Also agree with you on a short-hand form. I can see people calling it a dpass or something of the sort. I think we can let users adopt their own short-hand for this.

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guylepage3 commented Apr 6, 2015

@taoeffect @cpacia Haha.. Awesome! We have talked about Microsoft Passport. This community has nothing to do with Microsoft. Passport definitely is not a negative thing. But I do like "Pass". Also agree with you on a short-hand form. I can see people calling it a dpass or something of the sort. I think we can let users adopt their own short-hand for this.

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"Digital" is not magic pixie dust that will make or break your company or your offering. Neither is the word "open" a substitute for the hard work needed to make this project a success.

But calling it Open Passport addresses real concerns that your users would otherwise have, and it will do it without them having to ask.

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taoeffect commented Apr 9, 2015

"Digital" is not magic pixie dust that will make or break your company or your offering. Neither is the word "open" a substitute for the hard work needed to make this project a success.

But calling it Open Passport addresses real concerns that your users would otherwise have, and it will do it without them having to ask.

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@taoeffect wrote:

"Digital" is not magic pixie dust

Of course not! I apologize if I gave you that impression. I was comparing "Digital" with "Open" and pointing out that using digital with an existing object is a linguistic mechanism for indicating to consumers that a new concept shares characteristics with the original, yet is somehow different in a way that has something to do with computers.

"Digital" plays the same role that "tele-" played in an earlier era (tele-vision, tele-graph, tele-gram, tele-phone)

Open Passport addresses real concerns that your users would otherwise have

People will think we're the government and then either sign up or not sign up based on their political orientation?

examples of technologies that did not employ the use of the word digital

1/2 of this list are products. Onename, Nametiles, SocialMission are examples of products here.

computers (not "digital computers"), calculators (not "digital calculators")

Computers & calculators started out as mechanical machines! Amazing how far we've come!

@taoeffect <pulls up a soap box>

I love the soapbox! 😃👏🏻

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larrysalibra commented Apr 9, 2015

@taoeffect wrote:

"Digital" is not magic pixie dust

Of course not! I apologize if I gave you that impression. I was comparing "Digital" with "Open" and pointing out that using digital with an existing object is a linguistic mechanism for indicating to consumers that a new concept shares characteristics with the original, yet is somehow different in a way that has something to do with computers.

"Digital" plays the same role that "tele-" played in an earlier era (tele-vision, tele-graph, tele-gram, tele-phone)

Open Passport addresses real concerns that your users would otherwise have

People will think we're the government and then either sign up or not sign up based on their political orientation?

examples of technologies that did not employ the use of the word digital

1/2 of this list are products. Onename, Nametiles, SocialMission are examples of products here.

computers (not "digital computers"), calculators (not "digital calculators")

Computers & calculators started out as mechanical machines! Amazing how far we've come!

@taoeffect <pulls up a soap box>

I love the soapbox! 😃👏🏻

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I understand what you are saying.

But what is more important: that they understand that it is digital, or that they understand that it is not the same as every other kind of passport they have ever heard of?

And you need to convince early adopters still. Early adopters will prefer Open Passport. The rest will follow what they say.

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taoeffect commented Apr 9, 2015

I understand what you are saying.

But what is more important: that they understand that it is digital, or that they understand that it is not the same as every other kind of passport they have ever heard of?

And you need to convince early adopters still. Early adopters will prefer Open Passport. The rest will follow what they say.

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Early adopters will prefer Open Passport.

That's what I suspect at least. Creating a well done, scientific survey with them would give you a definitive answer.

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taoeffect commented Apr 9, 2015

Early adopters will prefer Open Passport.

That's what I suspect at least. Creating a well done, scientific survey with them would give you a definitive answer.

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cpacia Apr 9, 2015

Creating a well done, scientific survey with them would give you a definitive answer.

That I agree with. Usually, when you need to create a brand there's a ton of market research that goes into it.

cpacia commented Apr 9, 2015

Creating a well done, scientific survey with them would give you a definitive answer.

That I agree with. Usually, when you need to create a brand there's a ton of market research that goes into it.

@shea256 shea256 changed the title from Proposed renaming of openname to digital passport to Proposed renaming of Openname Apr 13, 2015

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Hey everyone, thought of a couple more concepts I'd like to toss out:

  • keycard
  • passcard

These can either stand on their own (as shown above) or be modified:

  • digital keycard
  • e-keycard
  • digital passcard
  • e-passcard

Not personally sold on either yet but I think they're quite promising, as they convey both identity and access control (authentication) and they are a strong alternative to passport, pass, and id.

Thoughts?

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shea256 commented Apr 13, 2015

Hey everyone, thought of a couple more concepts I'd like to toss out:

  • keycard
  • passcard

These can either stand on their own (as shown above) or be modified:

  • digital keycard
  • e-keycard
  • digital passcard
  • e-passcard

Not personally sold on either yet but I think they're quite promising, as they convey both identity and access control (authentication) and they are a strong alternative to passport, pass, and id.

Thoughts?

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Not moved.

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larrysalibra commented Apr 13, 2015

Not moved.

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Hey guys.. Maybe some visuals will help as well...

screen-shot-2015-04-13-at-2 42 14-pm
screen-shot-2015-04-13-at-2 42 34-pm

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guylepage3 commented Apr 13, 2015

Hey guys.. Maybe some visuals will help as well...

screen-shot-2015-04-13-at-2 42 14-pm
screen-shot-2015-04-13-at-2 42 34-pm

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No comment on the linguistics of word itself, but the second image wins handily. Fewer words = better.

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taoeffect commented Apr 13, 2015

No comment on the linguistics of word itself, but the second image wins handily. Fewer words = better.

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Just thinking through some quick and dirty copy to communicate this. Not the best but a good start to get the mental juices flowing...

For auth services:

You know how you normally type in a word or phrase (a password) to login? Well now, we're getting rid of passwords and giving you a more convenient option. You get an identity card that represents you, and all you need to do is click your card to login. It's your pass_card_ instead of your pass_word_. Forget typing and remembering words, and just get a pass and click to login.

For identity services:

Your passcard is a representation of who you are. Your profile card is on your profile online and can be embedded and shown on your blog, website, or company team page. Just like you have a passport that identifies you when you're traveling, your passcard identifies who you are when you're surfing the web.

(for an example of the "card" representation of profiles, check out https://onename.com/about)

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shea256 commented Apr 13, 2015

Just thinking through some quick and dirty copy to communicate this. Not the best but a good start to get the mental juices flowing...

For auth services:

You know how you normally type in a word or phrase (a password) to login? Well now, we're getting rid of passwords and giving you a more convenient option. You get an identity card that represents you, and all you need to do is click your card to login. It's your pass_card_ instead of your pass_word_. Forget typing and remembering words, and just get a pass and click to login.

For identity services:

Your passcard is a representation of who you are. Your profile card is on your profile online and can be embedded and shown on your blog, website, or company team page. Just like you have a passport that identifies you when you're traveling, your passcard identifies who you are when you're surfing the web.

(for an example of the "card" representation of profiles, check out https://onename.com/about)

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Still not a big fan of either. "Passcard" - I've never heard this word.

Of the two I like keycard better - but I just think access and not identity. Have had lots of keycards that are are just white pieces of plastic. Could be just me.

I think both of these have similar translation issues - they aren't universal concepts either across cultures. Also don't have the "news-coverage-ability factor and the word-of-mouth-ability factor" as @shea256 termed it.

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larrysalibra commented Apr 13, 2015

Still not a big fan of either. "Passcard" - I've never heard this word.

Of the two I like keycard better - but I just think access and not identity. Have had lots of keycards that are are just white pieces of plastic. Could be just me.

I think both of these have similar translation issues - they aren't universal concepts either across cultures. Also don't have the "news-coverage-ability factor and the word-of-mouth-ability factor" as @shea256 termed it.

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Agree with @taoeffect about the second image looking better.

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larrysalibra commented Apr 13, 2015

Agree with @taoeffect about the second image looking better.

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hoffmabc Apr 13, 2015

Did someone suggest persona?

Did someone suggest persona?

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I have some bad "digital passport" news...
While we were in the valley attending the IIW Conference last week, we discovered that Microsoft will be reviving their, once dead, product "Passport". They see it as one of the new major features and will be forcing users to sign-up upon installation of Windows 10. Microsoft's new IE replacement browser, Spartan, will have Passport baked right in and will be Spartan's new SSO tool. They have been putting a lot of time, effort and marketing dollars into this product. For us to combat this would be extremely difficult.

So with that said it's looking like "digital passport" is no longer a viable option for the protocol.

As for "keycard", I feel a keycard is an access control tool issued for a temporary time period. Like a keycard that is issued by hotels to their customers so they may access their rooms temporarily. Does not sound super secure if it's a temporarily issued item. Feels like it could be revoked.

I am definitely liking "passcard"

@larrysalibra wrote:

"Passcard" - I've never heard this word.

Passcard is short for "Passport Card". The US and Canada are issuing these for frequent border crossing travelers. They've issued only 7 million passcards since 2008 so this is something we can own.

Passcard also suggests it's a tangible object. To me it sounds trustworthy and professional yet does not say tracking or government issued. Lastly, a passcard does a decent job suggesting both identity and access control. Most of the other names we've devised on this thread do not execute this well.

I'm all for "passcard"

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guylepage3 commented Apr 13, 2015

I have some bad "digital passport" news...
While we were in the valley attending the IIW Conference last week, we discovered that Microsoft will be reviving their, once dead, product "Passport". They see it as one of the new major features and will be forcing users to sign-up upon installation of Windows 10. Microsoft's new IE replacement browser, Spartan, will have Passport baked right in and will be Spartan's new SSO tool. They have been putting a lot of time, effort and marketing dollars into this product. For us to combat this would be extremely difficult.

So with that said it's looking like "digital passport" is no longer a viable option for the protocol.

As for "keycard", I feel a keycard is an access control tool issued for a temporary time period. Like a keycard that is issued by hotels to their customers so they may access their rooms temporarily. Does not sound super secure if it's a temporarily issued item. Feels like it could be revoked.

I am definitely liking "passcard"

@larrysalibra wrote:

"Passcard" - I've never heard this word.

Passcard is short for "Passport Card". The US and Canada are issuing these for frequent border crossing travelers. They've issued only 7 million passcards since 2008 so this is something we can own.

Passcard also suggests it's a tangible object. To me it sounds trustworthy and professional yet does not say tracking or government issued. Lastly, a passcard does a decent job suggesting both identity and access control. Most of the other names we've devised on this thread do not execute this well.

I'm all for "passcard"

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The rumors of Microsoft launching "Passport" (again) make it very hard to go with Digital Passport I think. We'll constantly have to explain to people that "No, it's not the Microsoft Passport. It's a different Digital Passport". Bummer.

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muneeb-ali commented Apr 13, 2015

The rumors of Microsoft launching "Passport" (again) make it very hard to go with Digital Passport I think. We'll constantly have to explain to people that "No, it's not the Microsoft Passport. It's a different Digital Passport". Bummer.

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@hoffmabc I think persona might have come up at some point but we didn't really explore it because Mozilla Persona is still in everyone's recent memory. It's much more recent than Microsoft's failed Passport experiment of way back. Given what we knew just a week ago, "passport" would have been safe to use while "persona" would have been more difficult. But... now that we know that Passport is being revived, it seems the term/concept "passport" is off limits now too :/

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shea256 commented Apr 13, 2015

@hoffmabc I think persona might have come up at some point but we didn't really explore it because Mozilla Persona is still in everyone's recent memory. It's much more recent than Microsoft's failed Passport experiment of way back. Given what we knew just a week ago, "passport" would have been safe to use while "persona" would have been more difficult. But... now that we know that Passport is being revived, it seems the term/concept "passport" is off limits now too :/

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hoffmabc Apr 13, 2015

The funny thing is the more this discussion continues the more I like just OneName. Your OneName credential.

The funny thing is the more this discussion continues the more I like just OneName. Your OneName credential.

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The funny thing is the more this discussion continues the more I like just OneName. Your OneName credential.

👍 for leaving it as OpenName and OneName and not confusing people further with more name changes.

Passcard... well, at least it's not Digital Passport. 😛

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taoeffect commented Apr 13, 2015

The funny thing is the more this discussion continues the more I like just OneName. Your OneName credential.

👍 for leaving it as OpenName and OneName and not confusing people further with more name changes.

Passcard... well, at least it's not Digital Passport. 😛

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Hm, what about calling the underlying protocol the "Open Name System (ONS)" and using passcard to refer to the identity layer that consumers see?

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shea256 commented Apr 13, 2015

Hm, what about calling the underlying protocol the "Open Name System (ONS)" and using passcard to refer to the identity layer that consumers see?

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jbenet Apr 13, 2015

Hm, what about calling the underlying protocol the "Open Name System (ONS)" and using passcard to refer to the identity layer that consumers see?

👍

jbenet commented Apr 13, 2015

Hm, what about calling the underlying protocol the "Open Name System (ONS)" and using passcard to refer to the identity layer that consumers see?

👍

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Happy with both ONS (Open Name System) and Blockchain Naming System (BNS), both will remind people of DNS.

Passcard = profile (and profile specifications)

which is built on ONS (or BNS) for the actual name registrations and resolvers etc.

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muneeb-ali commented Apr 13, 2015

Happy with both ONS (Open Name System) and Blockchain Naming System (BNS), both will remind people of DNS.

Passcard = profile (and profile specifications)

which is built on ONS (or BNS) for the actual name registrations and resolvers etc.

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👍 I really like passcard and BNS (Blockchain Naming System)

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guylepage3 commented Apr 13, 2015

👍 I really like passcard and BNS (Blockchain Naming System)

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ItsProf Apr 13, 2015

ONS, BNS and passcard sound good. I think we have the new names boys ;)

ItsProf commented Apr 13, 2015

ONS, BNS and passcard sound good. I think we have the new names boys ;)

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👍 BNS

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@muneeb-ali

The rumors of Microsoft launching "Passport" (again) make it very hard to go with Digital Passport I think. We'll constantly have to explain to people that "No, it's not the Microsoft Passport. It's a different Digital Passport".

Anyone remember InfoCard aka Windows CardSpace?

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The funny thing is the more this discussion continues the more I like just OneName.

Same feeling. Maybe @shea256, @muneeb-ali & @guylepage3 want to pick new company name and let us use Onename. 😉

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👍 I really like passcard and BNS (Blockchain Naming System)

Not bad! 👍 Can still use "passcard is your digital passport" in early marketing copy.

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larrysalibra commented Apr 14, 2015

@muneeb-ali

The rumors of Microsoft launching "Passport" (again) make it very hard to go with Digital Passport I think. We'll constantly have to explain to people that "No, it's not the Microsoft Passport. It's a different Digital Passport".

Anyone remember InfoCard aka Windows CardSpace?

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The funny thing is the more this discussion continues the more I like just OneName.

Same feeling. Maybe @shea256, @muneeb-ali & @guylepage3 want to pick new company name and let us use Onename. 😉

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👍 I really like passcard and BNS (Blockchain Naming System)

Not bad! 👍 Can still use "passcard is your digital passport" in early marketing copy.

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So it looks like we have @jbenet @muneeb-ali @guylepage3 @georgetapia @larrysalibra and myself all in favor of (or at least fine with) passcard for the user identity product and Blockchain Naming System (BNS) for the underlying protocol. And it seems like @taoeffect and @hoffmabc are fine with or mildly in favor of this as well?

Seems like we're as close as we've ever been to consensus. Should we move towards finalizing this? Last comments? @cpacia @starkness @denisnazarov @MrChrisJ would you like to chime in?

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shea256 commented Apr 14, 2015

So it looks like we have @jbenet @muneeb-ali @guylepage3 @georgetapia @larrysalibra and myself all in favor of (or at least fine with) passcard for the user identity product and Blockchain Naming System (BNS) for the underlying protocol. And it seems like @taoeffect and @hoffmabc are fine with or mildly in favor of this as well?

Seems like we're as close as we've ever been to consensus. Should we move towards finalizing this? Last comments? @cpacia @starkness @denisnazarov @MrChrisJ would you like to chime in?

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hoffmabc Apr 14, 2015

Consider me fully on board with those two.

Consider me fully on board with those two.

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Am on board with Passcard and BNS. 👍

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taoeffect commented Apr 14, 2015

Am on board with Passcard and BNS. 👍

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BNS > DNS 🚀

P.S: "Login with passcard" sounds awesome.

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muneeb-ali commented Apr 14, 2015

BNS > DNS 🚀

P.S: "Login with passcard" sounds awesome.

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cpacia Apr 15, 2015

Maybe @shea256, @muneeb-ali & @guylepage3 want to pick new company name and let us use Onename. 😉

My roomate said the same thing today when I was talking about it. "What's wrong with Onename? That's a great name."

On that note, when I think of the product I think of it as a decentralized identify or a blockchain identity.

I think a name that captures that in a user-friendly word or phrase would be perfect. I have no idea on what that would be. Passcard or any variation of pass doesn't seem to capture it for me.

cpacia commented Apr 15, 2015

Maybe @shea256, @muneeb-ali & @guylepage3 want to pick new company name and let us use Onename. 😉

My roomate said the same thing today when I was talking about it. "What's wrong with Onename? That's a great name."

On that note, when I think of the product I think of it as a decentralized identify or a blockchain identity.

I think a name that captures that in a user-friendly word or phrase would be perfect. I have no idea on what that would be. Passcard or any variation of pass doesn't seem to capture it for me.

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Don't tell me. Show me. I understand that an iPad is a magical device. It makes perfect sense when you touch it.

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taoeffect commented Apr 15, 2015

Don't tell me. Show me. I understand that an iPad is a magical device. It makes perfect sense when you touch it.

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That's to say, there comes a point (maybe around 132 comments into a GitHub issue), where the name you choose ceases to make much of a difference, and focus should move to what the thing actually does.

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taoeffect commented Apr 15, 2015

That's to say, there comes a point (maybe around 132 comments into a GitHub issue), where the name you choose ceases to make much of a difference, and focus should move to what the thing actually does.

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I probably could have phrased that better (sorry if those comments came off poorly).

I'm excited for what you folks do. Either Passcard or Onename seem like fine names to choose, and it seems like there are no major objections to either name. Whichever you choose, I wish you luck and can't wait to see what you come up with! 😄

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taoeffect commented Apr 15, 2015

I probably could have phrased that better (sorry if those comments came off poorly).

I'm excited for what you folks do. Either Passcard or Onename seem like fine names to choose, and it seems like there are no major objections to either name. Whichever you choose, I wish you luck and can't wait to see what you come up with! 😄

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@hoffmabc wrote:

Consider me fully on board with those two.

@taoeffect wrote:

Am on board with Passcard and BNS. 👍

Amazing! Looks like we're almost ready to lock this in.

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shea256 commented Apr 15, 2015

@hoffmabc wrote:

Consider me fully on board with those two.

@taoeffect wrote:

Am on board with Passcard and BNS. 👍

Amazing! Looks like we're almost ready to lock this in.

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OK, seems that passcard and BNS it is folks!

Well done everyone, excited to see the new face of this system in action.

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shea256 commented Apr 17, 2015

OK, seems that passcard and BNS it is folks!

Well done everyone, excited to see the new face of this system in action.

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Thanks everyone for the comments! Loved the community driven discussion. Now need to turn this into a community driven development of the code and protocol as well ;-)

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muneeb-ali commented Apr 17, 2015

Thanks everyone for the comments! Loved the community driven discussion. Now need to turn this into a community driven development of the code and protocol as well ;-)

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Absolutely, completely agree :)

Closing out this issue and working on making the appropriate name changes.

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shea256 commented Apr 23, 2015

Absolutely, completely agree :)

Closing out this issue and working on making the appropriate name changes.

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