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Enhance scalability for large scale deployments #1060

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g1augusto opened this issue Nov 3, 2017 · 63 comments
Closed

Enhance scalability for large scale deployments #1060

g1augusto opened this issue Nov 3, 2017 · 63 comments
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enhancement General tag for an enhancement performance Performance related affects big sites poller Data Collection related issue

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@g1augusto
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g1augusto commented Nov 3, 2017

Hi Everyone,

I am currently deploying a modestly large Cacti implementation, nothing too extreme but still I found on my way a roadblock given by processing power.

I have an 8 Gig RAM with 4 vCPU VM carved out of our ESX server with something like 80 Gig of disk space, these specs are dedicated only for CACTI

I have 5 pollers, and a total of 10K data sources distributed on 648 devices (and counting).

The problem is that I have 227 of the devices being polled by the main cacti poller (that also is tasked to actually store all the remote pollers data) and it simply could not proceed further, cpu spiked between 120% to 200% for the mysqld process during updates and it got worse when the spine processes where running on the main poller.

My question are the following:

  • Are these numbers too much for CACTI?
  • Should the main poller be only collecting the remote pollers data by design?
  • Should I fine tune something to achieve better perfomance (even...CPU processing well...)

I can provide any further detail you may need to assess this discussion, I hope this may lead to some guidelines in the documentation or in some changes into the design, I will go on with some tests and let you know.

First test will be to relocate all the devices from the main poller to a remote poller and check if the main poller then is capable of handling that load without local polling.

Between polling cycles I see the following alert from 2 of the remote pollers (even if on them the CPU is never above the 10%) , I believe it's about data sources missing data but it's not clear from the logs

image

Thanks in advance

@g1augusto
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to be honest I think CACTI may not be suited in this distributed fashion for any large deployment, I must confess I am thinking about moving to another direction unless proven wrong and for that I would be sorry:

Here the cpu utilization spike for the mysql process on the main poller, without running any spine process:

image

I tried moving the poller_output_boost table to MEMORY and then back to InnoDB without improvements.

Will be waiting for guidance, in case I cannot figure out a solution most probably I will need to move to another NMS, having performance issues monitoring 50% of our network is really worrisome

@ikorzha
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ikorzha commented Nov 4, 2017

jhonnyx82, I'm not an expert just an advanced user of the product. I run a master server on 2 Xeon 18 Core processors, 128GB DDR4 ram and Raid 6 SSD drives on a stand alone hardware. Your specs look very underwhelming for master server.
I have a master server and 4 pollers.
The only serious problem that I have encountered is that current design heavily rely on master server. That will be rectified in Cacti 1.2.x Until then it is very difficult to poll hosts via remote poller that has high latency over 100ms.

pollers

@g1augusto
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Thanks for your feedback,

Do you have a suggestion for the remote poller specs? seems that the requirement for those may be less demanding.

Also, I may have missed it...what are the improvements in version 1.2.x that you are referring to?

@g1augusto
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Just wanted to add that currently we have in production some 0.8 version servers that have lower resources than the new cacti 1.x servers. The 0.8 servers has more or less the same number of devices and show no such problem

@ikorzha
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ikorzha commented Nov 4, 2017

Version 1.2 hasn't been out but I heard from Cigamit that pollers in 1.2.x will have much greater autonomy. And as the result will act like a stand alone installs. They will maintain their own RRDs and might be even able to process Tholds alarms and send out notifications, how often they will sync with master server is unknown to me.
I personally eagerly awaiting its release to try, it suppose to be in Nov 2017 but probably delayed as Cigamit seems to be busy and absent lately.

I also have 0.8x install that I am migrating from. I have to say it does have a bit better performance if compared to Cacti 1.x with no pollers.

But no one can deny Cacti 1.0 strength a single pane of glass view of entire enterprise via Thold and Monitor plugin, as well as Howie's maps!

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Nov 4, 2017

I noticed too that the Logs tab is mangling the error message about things like 'poller_output_table' not emptied. If you view the log through the Console > Utilities > View Cacti Log, are the messages complete.

Also, on the 'scalability' comment. I know some Cacti systems above 25k hosts, and they run just fine. With the changes planned for 1.2.x, remote polling will be much more scalable. There will be more load on the main database due to some fundamental changes in authentication and authorization in this release, but with todays servers (number of cores) and ssd/nvme disk, it should not be a problem.

Now, relative to timing, I honestly won't have free time until December to get enough time to do anything but spot bug fixes similar to the ones that I have addressed this morning.

Someone needs to encourage Howie to complete Weather Maps for Cacti 1.x. Which in Howies world, that means $$$. Someone please donate to him.

@ikorzha
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ikorzha commented Nov 4, 2017

I have to say I love Howie's work but I can't master enough funds to move the needle, in the past tried to donate $100 to him he wasn't interested :)

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Nov 4, 2017

jhonnyx82,

The reason for the increased load right now, is that each data collector is querying the poller_items table which adds more load on the main data collector. Also, the remote data collectors are using the same thread and process count as the main data collector. So, there will be two design changes in the 1.2.x release to address these problems.

  1. In the remote data collector, you will have the ability to define the number of processes and the number of threads. The value in Console > Settings > Poller will be the default for all new data collectors. So, the old value becomes a preset only.
  2. The remote data collectors will leverage their own poller_items table instead of the main data collectors poller_items table. This will not only make the remote data collectors more responsive, but reduce the load on the main data collector. Right now, that behavior only takes place in offline collection mode.

Currently, with your number of remote data collectors, combined with the process and thread count, that is what is leading you to the higher loads on the main server. You have to be careful, in the near term, that you don't run the system out of database connections. Though, once this change is made, you should see a pretty significant reduction in the main data collectors load.

@g1augusto
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g1augusto commented Nov 4, 2017

Thanks for the comments,

At this point I understand that with Cacti 1.1.x (we will see with 1.2.x) I need more processing power, allow me to ask some questions to help me through this:

First consider that at the time I started having issue the boost table size was around the following :
image

  • I believe I have done everything right in term of implementation and setup of the system but can you help me validating it or we can safely assume I just need more processing power for the Main poller?, for the number of the monitored device (total 650 and more or less 10K all SNMP get/walk data source and the boost table size ) is this expected?

  • In case we can agree that I need more hardware, can you suggest what should I request? I am asking this because I may have still a chance to put this into next year budget. It would be good to have an assumption for

    • devices: 650 - Data source 10K
    • devices: 1000 - Data source 25K
    • devices: 1500 - Data source 40K

PS : I think this may be an helpful part of the Cacti 1.x documentation (to justify this thread opened here in Github)

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Nov 4, 2017

Totally agree on the documentation side. We need help from volunteers to contribute to that effort. We are a small team and everyone has a day job presently.

From the sizing perspective, the worlds very largest Cacti users use all solid state disk, some SAS, some SATA, and others on things like PCIe attached, and NVMe. When using Flash disk, it's important to have some redundancy, raid1 is sufficient. I personally have lost multiple systems and learned early on that having a backup is essential in cases where you did not budget such a thing. Actually, I expected it, and in all cases had a backup.

From a memory perspective, that really depends on what 'else' you plan to do on the system. Cacti itself, outside of the RRDfiles, boost and data source cache tables, is not a big consumer of disk space or memory. So, a good 64GB or 128GB server is totally overkill, unless you have other data on the server that causes the MySQL server to grow with lot's of data. For example, if you are using the Syslog plugin, and you plan to hold large amounts of data in the Syslog tables, you will obviously need more memory.

On the memory side, if you have more main system memory than you have RRDfiles, and you have flash disk, boost is almost secondary. It does help from a wear perspective though, and it's required for remote data collection anyway. More memory is always better, but technically, the numbers above are generally acceptable.

So, to answer that question, I just don't have enough information.

Lastly, on the number of cores, well, how can you get a physical server with less than 24 these days? That's more than enough by the way. That's not to say, you could get less than 24. But any real server is going to have dual sockets, a good amount of memory, and rock star disk (PCIe/Flash).

@g1augusto
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g1augusto commented Nov 6, 2017

I was thinking it would help to distibute the BOOST mysql update through various processes, as I am checking that only one process is used and hence I guess that only 1 CPU is used but I may be wrong.

what do you think?

Another alternative, would it be possible to sync boost for times below 30 minutes (that is the minimum allowed I am using now) ?

@arno-st
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arno-st commented Nov 8, 2017

Can I jump into this conversation ?
I'm running into trouble on my cacti, ok I'm still using 0.8.8h due to missing weathermap on 1.x, but here is my situation:
Hosts:1044
DataSources:45817
And I'd like to have more but I don't think I can.
I'm using spine with this config:
Processes:20
Threads:15

Since we have a lot of performance problem on the server I need to talk to the server guy to find a solution, so now I try to find the basic think I need to ask, without looking on what I Have.
Can you give me guidance on cacti version 1.1.x is the way to go ? or wait for 1.2 and to bad for weathermap ?
Do I need to look for more poller, more server ?
So if jhonnyx82 has a large scall cacti config my is starting to be huge one no ?

Thanks for your input, but maybe this can be a talk on the forum

@ikorzha
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ikorzha commented Nov 8, 2017

Arno, I would highly recommend jumping on Cacti 1.1.28 the latest. It is stable and offer a number of enhancements vs 0.8.8h I myself in migration stage.
When it comes to Weathermap I have a working Weathermap version for 1.x from before Howie started a major re-write. It is a bit buggy but fully functional for editor and map runs. email me at ikorzha @ gmail com and I will email you a working copy.

@g1augusto
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my situation:
Hosts:1044
DataSources:45817
And I'd like to have more but I don't think I can.
I'm using spine with this config:
Processes:20
Threads:15

Well, as it was stated before, I think that 0.8x cacti has lower requirements than 1.x, as a matter of fact one of my 0.8x cacti server has the following numbers

Hosts : 680
Datasources : 33875

and I am not really having problems, I wish to move to 1.x to consolidate and automate mainly and on that it works very well.

As I mentioned one of the bottleneck looks to be the BOOST table copied back on disk even at 30 min intervals + the incidence of the connection that each spine process makes back to the main CACTI server in version 1.x.

From an internal discussion we were considering that since mariadb/mysql runs on a single process and the BOOST copy to RRD works mainly over one thread (this is my understanding, correct me if I am wrong) it may not get any benefit out of multicores unless the process is distributed between more instances.

I may (most probably) be wrong, but it's just an opinion.

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Nov 11, 2017

I'm looking at making a minor enhancement to the boost process. Right now, boost is a serial process, but it should be quite easily to parallelize it to N processes, but you will have to watch your load average. I think by doing this, the boost process can be sped up by a significant amount.

@g1augusto
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Thank you!

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Nov 11, 2017

jhonnyx82, you should consider reducing your number of processes to something smaller. This is also a reason for some of the delay. At some point, the number of concurrent threads hitting the poller_item table will cause contention on that table. Having it on SSD or Flash will reduce some of that pressure of course.

You can view this by showing a custom crafted 'show processlist' command in a loop while the poller is running. You will find some queries that are potentially delayed for several seconds. This is another reason that the 1.2.x design is so important. We take pressure off of the poller_items table by distributing it across the remote data collectors.

Again, this activity will not be started until some time in December. I may have a patch for boost ahead of that though as I started working on it last night.

@g1augusto
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Thanks for the info/suggestions,

I have the pollee item as a memory tae, I guess it will help.

Also I would like to validate your suggestion about thw number of process/threads but I need help on the custom process list you mentioned.

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Nov 12, 2017

Well, first, poller_item as InnoDB would actually be better, there will be less blocking actually. I know some very large sites that poll with 2-3 processes and 30 threads just fine. 90 threads is generally good enough. If you have some hosts/devices that have long polling time, spine should prioritize them first.

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Nov 12, 2017

Again SSD helps. SSD is as fast as a memory table actually.

@g1augusto
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g1augusto commented Nov 18, 2017

Thanks for your input, allow me to provide an update:

I am currently running 60% of the network devices I intend to monitor, 2 remote pollers are in another continent (ASIA and NA) while 2 are on the same continent as the main poller (not the same site of course).

All data source are retrieved correctly with the same hardware I described earlier

8 Gig RAM with 4 vCPU VM carved out of our ESX server with something like 80 Gig of disk space

image

I have reduced the proces # from 4 to 3 with 30 threads max for spine ( I am considering going down to 2 in case I will see performance issues).

With the recent network devices monitored added, BOOST table grown to 1.5 GB

image

and I have verified through NETFLOW collected data that the amound of bandwidth required inbound is 1.1 Mbit/s

I was surprised to check with the same Netflow collector that there is a 1.6 Mbit used for outbound traffic from the main poller to the remote pollers, I would expect the inbound to be higher...

So besides the report here my questions, with an eye to the next release:

  • Is regular this amount of outbound data traffic? is it related to the spine process? will it change with upcoming next releases of CACTI? (referred to higher remote poller independency from the main poller)
  • Will inbound bandwidth requirements be reduced with the upcoming releases of Cacti? (Still about remote pollers being more independent and as I read, having their own RRD files)
  • If RRD files will also be on the remote pollers (just a rumor I read somewhere) how the interconnection and visualization will work ?
  • Is this amount of BOOST table going to cause an issue if growing more? will there be a BOOST copy improvement (multi process) in the upcoming releases ? I notice that one of my poller has an increased number of error at the same time that the main poller performs a BOOST copy process SPINE: Poller[2] ERROR: Spine Timed Out While Waiting for Threads to End (see below). Is there a way to see which data sources are impacted by this?

Main Poller

image
Remote Poller

image

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Nov 19, 2017

Those errors are due to the face that the data collection is not completing in a timely manner. Need more data to establish a correlation. The multi-process boost won't actually help the poller times at all, just the boost times. The boost table can grow up until you don't have more physical memory (for memory engine), or disk with InnoDB.

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Nov 19, 2017

Another point, for future release (like 1.2 when I get to it), would be to track the data collectors min/avg/max timing over time, so you can find the problem data collector.

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Nov 20, 2017

The first part of this performance enhancement is done here d3690a9 This moves processes and threads to the data collector. There is a corresponding spine change that will be put in place within the next day or so.

@g1augusto
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Thanks for your help, just came to mind something I forgot to ask from one of your reply:

Is it a good idea to move the poller_item table to MEMORY? Any reason to NOT do that?

jhonnyx82, you should consider reducing your number of processes to something smaller. This is also a reason for some of the delay. At some point, the number of concurrent threads hitting the poller_item table will cause contention on that table. Having it on SSD or Flash will reduce some of that pressure of course.

@g1augusto
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jhonnyx82, I'm not an expert just an advanced user of the product. I run a master server on 2 Xeon 18 Core processors, 128GB DDR4 ram and Raid 6 SSD drives on a stand alone hardware. Your specs look very underwhelming for master server.

@ikorzha Can you give me more details about your hardware specs? I am going to request dedicated hardware for the master server, also can you tell me if you are running at 1 minute or 5 minutes polling interval ?

@ikorzha
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ikorzha commented Nov 28, 2017

I am running 1min polling
specs
I also run boost in memory as to not to wear SSDs prematurely
boost

@g1augusto
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g1augusto commented Nov 28, 2017

Thanks a lot,

Can you also post the hardware detail? like

  • server model
  • ram
  • disks # and RAID used
  • cpu model and number

Will help me making a request to our management for approvals.

@ikorzha
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ikorzha commented Nov 28, 2017

719064-B21 HP HPE ProLiant DL380 Gen9 8SFF Configureto-
order Server
Part NumberDescriptionQty
719064-B21HPE DL380 Gen9 8SFF CTO
Server1
817963-B21HPE DL380 Gen9 E5-2697v4
Kit2
805353-B21HPE 32GB 2Rx4 PC4-2400T-L
Kit3
749974-B21HP Smart Array P440ar/2G FIO
Controller1
690827-B21HP 400GB 6G SAS ME SFF SSD
6
720478-B21HPE 500W FS Pwr Supply Kit2
733660-B21HP 2U SFF Easy Install Rail Kit1

@g1augusto
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Thank you again,

this will help me making a request.

I suppose you use also plugins like weathermap - syslog - thold - without having gaps on your graphs

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Feb 13, 2018

I would be looking for any errors in the log related to gaps in polling, then there is a boost debug file area in Settings > Performance at the very bottom. That is where boost debug log will go. Without a detailed analysis of your log's, it will be hard to debug. If your database is on flash and you are running MySQL 5.6+ or MariaDB 10+, you can convert the poller_output_boost table to InnoDB without worry.

The 1.2 enhancement for threads and processes at the data collector level, you should be able to chisel in before the 1.2 release. I won't have time till the weekend to help you with that though.

@g1augusto
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I just noticed that from the virtual to physical server migration I forgot to set a parameter I had on the virtual one:

Maximum Data Source Items Per Pass in the boost settings was set to 10,000 and now I set it to 100,000 as with the new hardware I guess it should be able to accomodate it.

I will give it a run and today or tomorrow I will set the log level as agreed, just I would like to know if these log level settings are fine to collect the necessary log data:

  • Generic Log Level:
    • LOW
  • Selective Plugin Debug :
    • poller.php
  • Selective Plugin Debug
    • none
  • Selective Device Debug
    • none
  • Poller Syslog/Eventlog Selection
    • Errors

Just asking to not waste time on providing some evidence.

PS : Boost Debug Log is populated but until now I got no logs written in there, does it write only when the log level is set to debug? with the settings above will it write some logs in there?

Thanks,

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Feb 15, 2018

I thought they would write simply be the presence of the file. However, I have not reviewed that code in quite a long time.

@g1augusto
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Update:

I have not yet applied the debugs on the main poller but the Maximum Data Source Items Per Pass set to 50,000 (default) seems that gave some improvements as I could see only some gaps in the last 24 hours against much more when I had the old value of 10,000.

now about the debugs: I should enable them and leave the server then go and look at the timestamp of one of the occurrences (as it does not happen at regular intervals) and since I need to have this server in production now, can you validate that the debug settings I listed before will be ok and will not make the server unusable or generate false positives ?

Thanks in advance, I will be waiting for your much appreciated thoughts

cigamit added a commit that referenced this issue Sep 23, 2018
- Design Enhancement for Large scale Cacti Implementations
- Spine changes still required
- Testing still required
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cigamit commented Sep 23, 2018

Okay, the first half of this is done. I still have to update spine, and create a periodic full sync column and setting to perform a full sync periodically in background.

cigamit added a commit that referenced this issue Sep 23, 2018
- Add full sync cli tool
- Add force full sync option under settings
- Display last sync time from the Data Collectors page
- Upgrade script to add new poller column
cigamit added a commit that referenced this issue Sep 23, 2018
@g1augusto
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Thank you,

this is great news indeed!

Just to give an update, I am running in a quite stable condition with dedicated hardware for the main poller for a while now

image

Again number of DS is not too extreme but on top of that there is THOLD (nice job, some room for improvement but very nice) and @howardjones Weathermaps (well that to try and build a use case to try and get some support to have it into our network, hardly without GUI :( )

I know you are working hardly on the release 1.2 and that is really an achievement, but along with that can you find some time to publish some guidelines on how to upgrade safely from 1.1.38 to 1.2 (final) ? It would help a lot.

@howardjones
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This has reminded me that I haven't done any testing with multiple pollers :-)

cigamit added a commit that referenced this issue Sep 23, 2018
After initiali install remote data collector will not operate properly
without a full sync.  So, we add a new column that instructs the main
data collector to perform a full sync at the next poller run.
netniV pushed a commit to netniV/cacti that referenced this issue Sep 23, 2018
After initiali install remote data collector will not operate properly
without a full sync.  So, we add a new column that instructs the main
data collector to perform a full sync at the next poller run.
cigamit added a commit that referenced this issue Sep 24, 2018
Getting closer now.  Still have to work on Spine.
cigamit added a commit that referenced this issue Sep 24, 2018
Getting closer now.  Still have to test online/offline behavior.
cigamit added a commit that referenced this issue Sep 24, 2018
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cigamit commented Sep 24, 2018

@jhonnyx82, this is pretty stable at the moment. Though please note, I have to finish spine yet. You should just be able to upgrade your primary system to 1.2, and that upgrade should cascade to all the remote data collectors automatically. So, basically, you only have to upgrade one system. How's that. Now, don't just go out and upgrade your production system without setting up a parallel installation and calling me a liar first. That system won't upgrade all tables, so you should manually run the upgrade_database.php script from data collector (I will attempt to add this to the things to be done before release).

This information and much more needs to be added to the documentation of course and the cron user needs write access to the web site of course to cascade the upgrade.

Before upgrading, you should perform a full sync from the primary server to all remote data collectors so that data collection is not impacted immediately after upgrade.

Once the change is complete, offline mode will continue to work as before. The primary changes in behavior are as follows:

  1. The remote data collectors leverage the concurrent process and thread limits of the data collector, the two settings are no longer global
  2. Each data collector will obtain it's poller_items from the local database
  3. Each data collector will bulk insert into the central servers poller_output and poller_output boost tables in online mode. In offline mode, they will continue to dump locally as before.
  4. The remote data collectors will bulk publish host uptime, etc. details to the central server after polling is complete
  5. The remote data collectors will bulk publish rrd_next_step to the central server after polling is complete.
  6. The central server will periodically perform a bulk synchronization, which right now is service impacting (though I'm looking for a way that is not). You can control the frequency of this bulk full sync from Settings > Poller.

That's all I have as an update for now.

@g1augusto
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Thanks, this is really gold

I will be waiting that you complete the spine update to match this and when you will feel comfortable that 1.2.x is good for release then I will start this new journey into it, as it comes something will require fixes so I will have to make sure to prep my backups well (including RRD files this time!) :)

nice job really

cigamit added a commit that referenced this issue Sep 25, 2018
This setting will help Remote Agent Timeout situations.  The setting is
the Settings > Poller section.
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cigamit commented Sep 26, 2018

Latest spine working flawlessly with the new design. Put a fork in it. @jhonnyx82, it would be nice to see how load and traffic changes with this update. Main server load should drop pretty heavily.

@cigamit cigamit closed this as completed Sep 26, 2018
@thurban
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thurban commented Oct 8, 2018

UPDATE: seems like the upgrade process didn't update all files on the remote pollers, so forced a run now. Looks good now.

@netniV
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netniV commented Oct 8, 2018

I would have thought starting a script server would be occurring on a thread of it's own to keep things concurrent.

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netniV commented Oct 8, 2018

I think you should open that as a new issue @thurban and we can track it separately.

@thurban
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thurban commented Oct 8, 2018

I can confirm that this has indeed a huge positive effect on polling times. Using latest spine and cacti reduces remote polling time by up to 90%.

Great work. and sorry for the confusion

@netniV
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netniV commented Oct 8, 2018

Wow, that's good to hear!

@cigamit
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cigamit commented Oct 8, 2018

@thurban, but does the script server comment still apply? Please advise, then if it does, open a separate ticket as @netniV suggested. 90% is awesome by the way.

This change should also allow some interesting horizontal scaling opportunities as well since once of the largest scaling issue is contention between threads getting to the poller_items table, which are now separated by data collector therefore reducing contention.

@thurban
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thurban commented Oct 8, 2018

No ignore the Script Server comment I had earlier. It was a manual/human error.

@netniV netniV changed the title Design Enhancement for Large scale Cacti Implementations Enhance scalability for large scale deployments Dec 31, 2018
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