29c3-5385-en-not_my_department_en.srt

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Guten Morgen meine Damen und Herren,

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ich freue mich sehr, dass ich hier bin,

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aber Deutsch ist nicht meine Muttersprache,

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daher werde ich weiter auf englisch sprechen.

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Es ist eine Ehre, hier zu sein.

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So the Chaos Computer Club to me is like family,

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and it is such an honor to be able to speak to everyone here,

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and it ridiculous that they asked me to give the keynote.

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I hope that I am not wasting 3000 collective hours

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of the smartest people of this planet with what I have to say

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in the next 60 minutes.

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I want to start by thanking everyone

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that is in the audience for being here

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and for some specific people,

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I want to call out Laura Poitress, who is this

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woman here, next to the woman with the camera,

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because she produced and edited the videos that we're going to see

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I have been working with her quite a lot

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and she is a very inspirational wonderful artist

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who I love deeply.

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And I'd like to start by playing a video,

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which is part of an art project we're working on,

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where many people are working on,

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and if we could play that first video,

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I think that would be a good way to start this off.

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Fantastic. So, <i>now</i> we have an Idea

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about what my talk will be about, right?

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Just in case that there is any question

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that I was going to change many horses midstream

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this is a location, it's called Bluffdale, Utah.

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And this is one of the largest datacenters

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that we know of the NSA is currently constructing.

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And there is the question of course about what it is they are trying to build,

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why they're building it,

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what exactly they plan to do with the space and

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how they will use the space

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and I am going to talk a bit about this - nice -

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and what I am hoping also to point out is, that this is everyones department.

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So in this case, what we see, is the construction of the actual bluffdale Utah Site.

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So this is the slow process. But there is not anything particular one might object to.

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In this process, it is just construction of a very large building.

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And I am gonna read some adresses now that were passed out

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when Winni, Laura and I did a show at the Withney(sp?):

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2651 Olive Street, St. Louis, Missouri, 63103 United States.

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420 South Grand Los Angeles, California, 90071 United States

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6/11 Folsam Street, San Francisco, California, 94107 United States

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51 Peachtree North-East Atlanta Georgia, 3030 United states

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10 South Cannala Chicago Illinois 60606 United States

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30 East Street South West Washington DC, 20024 United States

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811 10th Ave New York, New York, 10019 United States

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12967 Hollenberg Drive, Richtown

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These addresses are potentially domestic Interception points

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for the NSA in the United States.

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One of them is confirmed accoding to Marc Kline,

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who blew the whistle and discussed the fact

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that the NSA is doing domestic surveillance.

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I and many of the people believe that the purpose of this datacenter is to build

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something to store and process massive interception

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where some of the calculations by bill binnie,

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who was an analyst for the NSA for almost 40 years

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he thinks, that this center will be used to store the information

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for probably somewhere around 100 years.

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And so in theory we might say

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that that's not big deal and we have nothing to worry about.

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I very much want to make sure that we cover in this talk that's going to happen right now

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that this right here is in the back of everyones mind.

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A Datacenter, designed to store things for a 100 years.

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That seems like a reasonable theory for this.

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and if you read the information that is present about it,

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you will in fact see that that seems like it is problably an understatement

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and probably, since there is more than a single facility like this,

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that there is a possibility that the 100 years is just a short version.

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and that's an extremely scary proposition.

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So, part of the reason I want to show you that is

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that I want to lead with that, but I will tell you a quote, which is:

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"nothing strengthens the judgement and quickens the conscience like individual responsibility"

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which is a quote by a feminist known as Elisabeth Stanton.

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This I think is a useful thing when talking about things not being our department.

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Because, what do we have to do with the NSA?

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What do we have to do with this giant datacenter which is being built in bluffdale?

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well, in essence, part of the thing that is so scary,

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that with the internet  and with communication systems as they exist today,

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they really isn't a geographical border,

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that really changes what we can and can not care about in the ways that we used to.

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The fact of the matter is that the NSAs interception,

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those interception points, they will carry not only americans data,

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they will carry everyone's data for the internet.

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So, caring about this datacenter is in fact a very serious thing that we need to consider,

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because in fact it does impact everyone.

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But even if we didn't use the internet,

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it impacts the people that we care about in a transitive way.

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So I'm hoping that in the course of the next 15 minutes

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I am able to convice you that these things are your department.

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And I of want to start to talk about what Robin Frankin talked about the last few years.

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Have any one of you seen these talks that they've given

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such like "We Lost the War"-Talk or "How society might collapse"? See a show of hands for that?

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Okay, About half of you.

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I want to say that they talked about this and they said we've know we lost the war,

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the surveillance state war.

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You know, basically, so many people have decided to

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go to the dark side, as it has been called.

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That is working on deep packet inspection, censorship equipment,

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Surveillance equipment, Targeting Information etcetera.

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This is in fact what has happened.

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If you look at the job that pays very well, that people aware of,

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they usually are systems of control types of jobs.

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There are research positions obviously that exists in the world,

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but it pays better to work for Lockheed martin that for a university.

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So people will choose I think for sometimes good reasons

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or for understandable reasons to do these types of tasks

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and sometimes will even moral arguments saying things like

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"because of stuxnet we were able to avoid violence or bombing of a factory".

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Of course the reality is that these things are not used alone,

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they're used together and in concert with bombings of factories.

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So, it's certainly worth mentioning, that these guys,

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Frankin Robb as well as many other people who did  not stand up and tell

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the congress about their ideas

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that these people were really on to something.

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And unfortunately, now we actually live in the world

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that they were describing that was coming. And it's an incredibly scary world.

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And in the last few years, I had the misfortune of being targeted

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by a large section of this world. And I can tell you that it's been

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a quite uncomfortable series of days. Just one day after the other

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is the way to take it, or the way to deal with it,

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and this is not a comfortable or easy way to live.

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When Frankin Robb talked about this, they still had some kind of hope in their voice,

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and I think that that was important.

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So I wanted to do was to try to take that hope and to focus on it

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and to try to take it say that and despite the fact that there are these opressive systems

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of control. And despite the fact that we do now live in a surveillance state

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that it may still - I think reasonably so - be possible to resist the surveillance state

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and to turn things around if we wish.

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And I think that there may come a time in which that is not true.

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I don't believe that this time has yet arrived.

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So, Frank wanted me to very much stress this notion that

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we can make this choice about what whe do about our time

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that is this notion of the dark and the light side.

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I personally don't think that this sort of black-and-white, white-hat, black-hat, ethics make any sense

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because I don't define my ethical or moral framework by making comparison black and white 1950 cowboys movies

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and I'd like to say that there's some nuance there.

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But there are some simple things that you can do to decide

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if you are working on something which is oppressive,

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and one of them is to ask yourself if you are working on a system

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that helps to control others or

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if you're working on a system that helps to enable others,

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to have control over their own lives.

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And this is a really simple test.

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If you're working on DPI, that will be deployed on people who do not get a say in it,

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you are probably working for the oppressor.

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It's not guaranteed, because there are many of layers of indirection.

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Bluecoat probably doesn't think of themselves as being a tool in a military dictatorship's toolbox

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but the reality is that when the Assad Gouvernment

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or the Burmis military dictatorship or their eleged free market companies in Bhurma use bluecoat

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which they both do, they have for some time and they will continue to,

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bluecoat is in fact, part of that system of control.

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Now, are they responsible?

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That's a good question. I don't have an answer to that.

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But I do have an answer to wether or not I think they play a role in it.

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And that is that they do.

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What role, that remains to be seen.

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And what I am hopeful about is that some people,

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especially people in this room, have actually made the choice

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that is the opposite of that. They've decided to work

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on systems wthat help enable people to be free.

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When for example we see that Mich Altmann from Noisebridge

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has dedicated his life to teaching people about electronics,

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and to open hardware and free software,

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and we see that he is enabeling people in a positive way.

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and this is something that we as a community I think should really step up

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commending people who do this. Bhanny Hueng (TODO sp?) who builds open hardware,

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he is a hero, when  - you can applaud that if you wish -

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[applause]

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the thing is, that I probably can't do it,

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but I wrote list of names of people that inspired me over breakfast one day,

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and it's pretty long, so I'm not gonna read all of it.

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But the same is true for Lady Ada, Christine  Corbit(TODO: sp?) and amazing people everywhere

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People who dont have names, who are basically anonymous and

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in their community, but we should look to them, and we should look to them with pride

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and we should look to them with support and mutual aid and solitaridy.

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Because it's not just negative stuff.

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Not everybody in here works for FinFisher.

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And in fact, more people in here work against FinFisher, thanks for that!

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And so, to that end, we can make a choice about what we'd like to do.

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And it is possible to make a living making free software for freedom,

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instead of closed source proprietary malware for cops.

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[applause]

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But there is a cost to that

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so I want to point out something in this next video,

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where I am going to be be silent while it plays unlike the last, and it is a minute long.

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Speaker: Does the NSA routinely intercept american citizen's emails?

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No

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Does the NSA intercept american's cell phone conversations?

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No

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Google Searches?

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No

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Text Messages?

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No

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Amazon.com orders?

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no

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Bank records?

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No

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What judicial consent is required for the NSA to intercept communications and information involving american citizens?

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Within the United States, that would be FBI lead,

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that was a foreign act within the united states, the FBI would still have the lead

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and could work with NSA or other intelligence agencies has authorized.

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But to conduct that kind of collection within the United States you would have to go through a court order,

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and the court would have to authorize it.

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We're not authorized to do it nor do we do it.

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(JA) Well, I think you can all understand the subtext here, which is

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that I am protected and you are not.

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I bet that makes you feel really great.

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So that datacenter we were looking at,

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what he just testified in front of congress about,

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that was General Alexander, he is the most powerful person in the world,

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probably even more powerful than the president of the United States,

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or any leader of any other country.

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He controls the intelligence structure for the entire NSA and he has ties to the rest of the intelligence community as well.

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So what he is basically saying is, that, if there is an american - hypothetically in america - they'd probably be fine.

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Which does't really make me feel good, because

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there are seven billion people on this planet.

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Just a few of them are americans, why should the be treated specially in this regard?

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So that giant datacenter that we see, it's for all of you

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and it's also for me, because despite the fact that I am an american,

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being associated with Wikileaks is like, well, it's not a good time in America.

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So, there is a thing to be said here, which is, that,

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that guy is a fuckin'  liar, first of all.

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Because we know for a fact...

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[applause]

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from Marc Kline,

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that the NSA was in fact doing dragnet-surveillance of all of those things.

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So straight up, this guy is a liar.

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But then on top of being a liar, which is bad engough in this context,

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he doesn't even bother to pretend that you have any value at all.

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And that you have rights.

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And that your privacy is important and your human dignity matters,

236
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becuase of where you happened to be born and

237
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which flag he images you flying.

238
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that to me is very depressing and I feel

239
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like it actually gives the rest of humanity that lives in america a very bad name.

240
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Anbd so I am very sorry for that.

241
00:14:57,458 --> 00:15:01,694
But I want to talk about some other things, that tie together with that.

242
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because when we just think about massive surveillance and isolation,

243
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we will have quite a problem, quite a series of problems in fact,

244
00:15:09,705 --> 00:15:13,610
so let's talk about some things that all have commonality with the surveillance state.

245
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First of all: data retention and retro-active policing which is clearly a human rights violation in Europe.

246
00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:26,259
It's clearly the case that this type of activity taking place creates suspects out of everyone.

247
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and being a suspect is to already not be free in my experience.

248
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And in fact in the 1800s there was a british author who wrote

249
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"to be free from suspicion is the one of the first freedoms that is important for being free in the rest of your life".

250
00:15:42,027 --> 00:15:47,437
when you're followed around, when you're being investigated, because of the whim of someone,

251
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this is the beginning of the end of your freedom.

252
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So, it seems that data retention is the beginning of the end of many of our freedoms in bulk, and that is a very scary thing. (TODO: TIMING)

253
00:16:00,153 --> 00:16:00,153
And when people do retro-active policing, when they apply that lack of freedom in a very specific way,

254
00:16:06,180 --> 00:16:08,216
and when they take these actions,

255
00:16:08,216 --> 00:16:16,310
<i>they</i> depends, of course, on which state you happen to be in, which fiber optic cables happend to be in  use when your bits were crossing it,

256
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:20,810
but how does this actually play out?

257
00:16:20,810 --> 00:16:22,492
It depends, right?

258
00:16:22,492 --> 00:16:24,294
And it depends in a very specific sense.

259
00:16:24,294 --> 00:16:28,440
So for example, drone killings, and I am not  just talking about Ironware Lockies(TODO sp?) innocent 16-yearold Son in Jemen,

260
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:36,426
but drones killings of thousands of people. The targeting information is fed

261
00:16:36,426 --> 00:16:42,184
to the CIA and to other groups from surveillance listening points

262
00:16:42,184 --> 00:16:45,898
from intelligence factories. So there is a direct relationship

263
00:16:45,898 --> 00:16:49,545
between surveillance and support of straight-up murder.

264
00:16:49,545 --> 00:16:55,629
That is something which sounds scary, what makes it even scarier is the way those

265
00:16:55,629 --> 00:16:59,928
drone killings are carried out is that the central comittee, who gets to decide who lives and dies

266
00:16:59,928 --> 00:17:06,452
or obamas assasination star chamber, that central committee which sounds a lot to me

267
00:17:06,837 --> 00:17:06,837
a lot like some of the soviet redaract I remember from my childhood

268
00:17:08,617 --> 00:17:14,827
that central comittee decides non-democratically who gets to be assasinated.

269
00:17:14,827 --> 00:17:17,823
and it is just a hop or two away from surveillance.

270
00:17:17,823 --> 00:17:21,637
So when you assist a surveillance state you are literally helping to kill fucking children.

271
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That is something that doesn't help me sleep at night.

272
00:17:26,416 --> 00:17:29,935
and you can choose not to be part of that; almost every person here has made that choice.

273
00:17:29,935 --> 00:17:33,105
but if you're on the fence I guess you can guess what I suggest you go.

274
00:17:34,182 --> 00:17:35,831
But there are some more ties.

275
00:17:35,831 --> 00:17:39,159
Because let's say drone killing just seem a little bit too far off.

276
00:17:39,159 --> 00:17:43,929
Right? Well, in Uganda, there has been a proposal for some time now,

277
00:17:43,929 --> 00:17:48,703
which seems to be almost pushed back, but not quite,

278
00:17:48,703 --> 00:17:53,270
where they wish to make a death sentence for being a homosexual,

279
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:58,001
where aggrevated homosexuality is a crime. I think that is where you continue to flip your wrist.

280
00:17:58,001 --> 00:18:00,930
I am not quite sure what aggrevated homosexuality means.

281
00:18:00,930 --> 00:18:07,134
But this basic notion that someone would be forced to report on you or they would also go to prison,

282
00:18:07,134 --> 00:18:11,852
this is something which surveillance will impact greatly and it will make a huge difference.

283
00:18:11,852 --> 00:18:16,438
Of course, we can talk about wider things, such as the chinese suppression of the tibetan people,

284
00:18:16,438 --> 00:18:20,845
we can talk about police backdoors and so-called lawful interception malware

285
00:18:20,845 --> 00:18:24,742
we can talk about wars on agression in irak and afghanistan,

286
00:18:24,742 --> 00:18:27,381
the surveillance state touches everything,

287
00:18:27,381 --> 00:18:29,594
and it is more than that.

288
00:18:29,594 --> 00:18:33,665
It is the fact that the surveillance state is part of the system of control

289
00:18:33,665 --> 00:18:39,102
that causes much suffering. It may also bring some good things

290
00:18:39,272 --> 00:18:40,767
into this world, but with the secrecy,

291
00:18:40,767 --> 00:18:44,744
the surveillance state becomes totally unaccountable.

292
00:18:44,744 --> 00:18:48,271
So, we can look in some other things that are quite concerning.

293
00:18:48,271 --> 00:18:50,650
We can see that there are ties that are not as obvious.

294
00:18:50,650 --> 00:18:53,605
The military trials of political prisoners in Egypt,

295
00:18:53,605 --> 00:18:55,937
the genocide of the syrian people right now,

296
00:18:55,937 --> 00:19:00,144
the british and swedish justice regarding Julian Assange,

297
00:19:00,144 --> 00:19:03,715
the right-wing nazi-sympathisers here in germany,

298
00:19:03,715 --> 00:19:06,277
that gave murdering nazis passports and help

299
00:19:06,277 --> 00:19:09,627
and are still not held to account,

300
00:19:09,627 --> 00:19:15,273
the oppresioning crackdown on wikileaks related or WL-tainted people,

301
00:19:15,273 --> 00:19:18,776
companies that sell equipment to brutal dictatorships and authoritarian regimes,

302
00:19:18,776 --> 00:19:23,974
for both surveillance or censorships, sometimes both

303
00:19:23,974 --> 00:19:28,159
the reality is that secret police and spying agencies

304
00:19:28,159 --> 00:19:31,599
actually change our ability to govern ourselves freely.

305
00:19:31,599 --> 00:19:35,105
And they do it in such a way that it is not obvious,

306
00:19:35,105 --> 00:19:37,652
and it is seemingly impossible to resist.

307
00:19:37,652 --> 00:19:41,512
Because these things itself are secret, it becomes extremely difficult for us to know

308
00:19:41,512 --> 00:19:43,169
where to begin resisting.

309
00:19:43,169 --> 00:19:47,108
Add it's core, in the United States, where this has gone,

310
00:19:47,108 --> 00:19:52,403
is that there are secret laws, with secret interpretations, and a total lack of accountability.

311
00:19:52,403 --> 00:19:57,644
And fundamentally, what these things are, is that they are oppressive, vanguard approaches,

312
00:19:57,644 --> 00:20:05,493
to authoritanianism, they are insultingly paternalistic and allegedly above the law.

313
00:20:05,493 --> 00:20:11,158
If you ever had the opportunity to meet the people that work in these intelligence agencies that are still there,

314
00:20:11,158 --> 00:20:15,877
some of them are quite good, they're fundamentally awesome people.

315
00:20:15,877 --> 00:20:19,790
But then, when it comes to their job, they're in a pretty terrible place.

316
00:20:19,790 --> 00:20:22,991
That is if they wish to keep their job they are not really free to dissent.

317
00:20:22,991 --> 00:20:27,538
If we look at people, for example like Bill Binnie or Thomas Drake, what  we see is

318
00:20:27,538 --> 00:20:30,127
that when you dissent, you'll get crushed.

319
00:20:30,127 --> 00:20:33,257
Your Family Life will be ruined,

320
00:20:33,257 --> 00:20:35,906
there are huge costs to telling the truth.

321
00:20:35,906 --> 00:20:40,021
And there are huge costs to asking for a more just system.

322
00:20:40,021 --> 00:20:43,030
Bill Binnie actually really blew my mind in a peticular way.

323
00:20:43,030 --> 00:20:47,018
I thought surely a way working for the NSA for 40 years, we wouldn't have a lot in comon.

324
00:20:47,018 --> 00:20:54,632
But it turns out, that he said to me that he thought that the spying was actually an immoral things,

325
00:20:54,632 --> 00:20:58,043
but that maybe during the cold war it was a neccessary evil.

326
00:20:58,043 --> 00:21:02,107
That is, he thought that maybe they could prevent total atomic warfare.

327
00:21:02,107 --> 00:21:06,370
And at the same time he recognised that it was not the right thing to spy on people.

328
00:21:06,370 --> 00:21:08,598
that this should not be the end in itself.

329
00:21:08,598 --> 00:21:10,891
I was really touched by that, because

330
00:21:10,891 --> 00:21:13,116
usually it is the case that someone would say

331
00:21:13,116 --> 00:21:16,836
"except for americans. you can spy on everyone but not on americans."

332
00:21:16,836 --> 00:21:21,757
And for him the turning point, as i understand it, was that he decided that it was wrong to spy on everybody.

333
00:21:21,788 --> 00:21:23,882
And when they decided to spy on americans, it was clear

334
00:21:23,882 --> 00:21:28,413
that they couldn't be trusted to spy even on any single person

335
00:21:28,413 --> 00:21:32,751
and to do it in a way which would be producing justice.

336
00:21:32,751 --> 00:21:37,895
That was very surprising for me. It actually made me change my mind about the people who might work for the NSA.

337
00:21:37,895 --> 00:21:42,833
but then it turns out that he suffered a great deal as a result of having that opinion.

338
00:21:42,833 --> 00:21:47,203
So maybe it doesn't change my mind that much about the people who are still there.

339
00:21:47,434 --> 00:21:55,037
But, fundamentally, human rights, in theory, should be something that we can work for collectively as a human race.

340
00:21:55,037 --> 00:21:56,642
As a group of people.

341
00:21:56,642 --> 00:21:59,006
And yet it doesn't really seem that is, what is happening.

342
00:21:59,006 --> 00:22:00,840
There is a lot of rhetoric about it.

343
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,130
But when you kill hundreds of thousands of people it is very difficult

344
00:22:03,130 --> 00:22:08,507
to talk about the benefits of technologies in a way that doesn't seem like grouping.

345
00:22:08,507 --> 00:22:17,159
So, it happens that we develop these psychological defenses to it, so

346
00:22:17,159 --> 00:22:20,507
half of the people I that i have met and discussed this with,

347
00:22:20,507 --> 00:22:23,528
when this is the first time they considered the surveillance state,

348
00:22:23,528 --> 00:22:29,238
they talk about it in terms of their initial reaction where they've put it in five minuts of thought, and they say

349
00:22:29,238 --> 00:22:30,830
"well, it doesn't concern me".

350
00:22:30,830 --> 00:22:35,217
Or "it won't impact me. In fact the only people who are getting it,

351
00:22:35,217 --> 00:22:36,592
are people who deserve it."

352
00:22:36,592 --> 00:22:38,711
you know they are under a legitimate investigation."

353
00:22:39,742 --> 00:22:42,479
not actually sure, what a legitimate investigation is,

354
00:22:42,479 --> 00:22:46,882
when you can't hold people to account when there are secret laws, the rule

355
00:22:46,882 --> 00:22:53,113
by-law and the rule of-law is not the same thing. Rule-by-drecree doesn't mean it is just, simply because it is written down,

356
00:22:53,113 --> 00:22:56,172
especially if the interpretation is secret.

357
00:22:56,172 --> 00:23:00,944
So, After people recognise - maybe - that it may impact them,

358
00:23:00,944 --> 00:23:03,571
there is a fantastic set of things that takes place,

359
00:23:03,571 --> 00:23:07,101
and one of them is that people will try to minimize their role in it,

360
00:23:07,101 --> 00:23:12,502
saying lines like "well, it won't be possible to sort me out or find me in this massive data set"

361
00:23:12,502 --> 00:23:15,125
or "even if I do stand down, nothing will happen to me".

362
00:23:15,125 --> 00:23:19,066
And then, eventually, if they happen to be as unlucky as I have been in the last few years,

363
00:23:19,066 --> 00:23:25,149
they'll say something along the lines of "well, the system works and no injustice will occur, because this state is benign."

364
00:23:25,442 --> 00:23:30,803
There are not many people who I met who have gotten to that stage who actually continue to think that for that long.

365
00:23:30,803 --> 00:23:34,757
it  might be worth considering that perhaps we have to get to that point,

366
00:23:34,757 --> 00:23:41,688
to recognize that there is great foldey in that set of thougts and plan to thinking that.

367
00:23:41,688 --> 00:23:44,788
It might be the case that the surveillance state that exists

368
00:23:44,788 --> 00:23:50,006
in fact is negative even if we do not yet understand fully its negative effects.

369
00:23:50,006 --> 00:23:54,232
So, you see this also as social defense in groups,

370
00:23:54,232 --> 00:23:58,625
as a reaction, I think probably the split between wikileaks and openleaks is the greatest

371
00:23:58,625 --> 00:24:04,783
example of the fact that groups, even effective groups, will split and then have bad blood

372
00:24:04,783 --> 00:24:11,030
and then in fact they will deliver utter failure, and it is very sad, tragic even,

373
00:24:11,030 --> 00:24:14,225
and this kind of stuff is something which, even trying to resist,

374
00:24:14,225 --> 00:24:17,364
that we aren't quite aware how these types of things happen.

375
00:24:17,364 --> 00:24:21,085
History shows us certain ways how these kinds of splits might occur.

376
00:24:21,085 --> 00:24:25,324
But it isn't the case that we fully groked this historical lessons

377
00:24:25,324 --> 00:24:31,803
so it is quite sad that we focus so much of our energy on degrading things,

378
00:24:31,803 --> 00:24:35,522
like something does a great thing and someone sais "Ah yes, but this one thing"

379
00:24:35,522 --> 00:24:38,625
and the discussion becomes about this one thing.

380
00:24:38,625 --> 00:24:41,523
I think in fact it might make sense to focus on the good things

381
00:24:41,523 --> 00:24:46,788
as well, it is true that sometimes people produce free hardware but it has one binary BLOB

382
00:24:46,788 --> 00:24:49,564
that does not mean that we should not thank this person and give him credit,

383
00:24:50,084 --> 00:24:56,283
in fact to really praise them for putting so much effort to make everything as open as possible

384
00:24:56,283 --> 00:25:02,376
and it's too bad one thing is not open, but maybe we could put in some effort to open up and free that one thing.

385
00:25:02,376 --> 00:25:10,495
It is basically the same statement, but the way it is stated allows us to think of it in being in it together.

386
00:25:10,495 --> 00:25:16,026
And it helps to keep people together, and it helps to keep people motivated to work together in fact.

387
00:25:16,026 --> 00:25:20,749
I think, it is a useful idea, to try to take this tact.

388
00:25:20,749 --> 00:25:27,285
We also have these psyhcological defenses about the physical world, which I personally have experienced quite a lot.

389
00:25:27,285 --> 00:25:31,659
For example, that notion that warrants are required to enter your house.

390
00:25:31,659 --> 00:25:36,522
Your physical location is somehow protected is a very quite notion I certainly don't believe that anymore.

391
00:25:36,522 --> 00:25:39,449
it is a little sad, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

392
00:25:39,449 --> 00:25:42,295
In the United States, there is a thing called the Patriot Act,

393
00:25:42,295 --> 00:25:45,867
and section 2.15 of the Patriot act essentially sais

394
00:25:45,867 --> 00:25:49,545
"Something" and it's interpreted completely differently.

395
00:25:49,545 --> 00:25:53,590
that is there is a secret interpretation of section 2.15 of the Patriot Act,

396
00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:58,572
and if you ask Bill Binnie about this, what he would say is that everything is fair game.

397
00:25:58,572 --> 00:26:03,215
That is to say, regardless what you thought, the constitution said

398
00:26:03,215 --> 00:26:07,012
(regardless what you think the united nations declaration of human right sais)

399
00:26:07,012 --> 00:26:09,321
that's not what is really going on.

400
00:26:09,321 --> 00:26:13,125
And so, this defense that the people have, they're journalist, they're protected,

401
00:26:13,125 --> 00:26:16,357
no one will do anything to them, it's nonsense.

402
00:26:16,357 --> 00:26:21,065
every journalist in the United States that is subject to the warrantless wiretapping's tentacles,

403
00:26:21,065 --> 00:26:24,350
is being surveilled, regardless of the journalistic protections.

404
00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:29,538
Every member of congress, everybody in this room, probably especially everyone in this room.

405
00:26:31,123 --> 00:26:34,820
And of course people will say "You know, don't cross the border with anything".

406
00:26:34,820 --> 00:26:38,976
That's so stupid, so for example, when I cross the border with a telephone,

407
00:26:38,976 --> 00:26:43,464
I am actually not allowed to tell you what happened to my telephones. And obviously,

408
00:26:43,464 --> 00:26:45,720
it was a mistake to cross the border with a telephone,

409
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,461
it wasn't so much of a mistake, because the telephone connects to the telephone system,

410
00:26:50,461 --> 00:26:54,692
and every phone number in that phone  had been used to make or receive calls,

411
00:26:54,692 --> 00:26:58,481
so it's not like the data wasn't already in the hands of the oppressor.

412
00:26:58,481 --> 00:27:01,559
It was in fact the case that it was just slightly better indexed.

413
00:27:03,036 --> 00:27:05,312
But it also had some extra numbers in there, just for fun.

414
00:27:07,004 --> 00:27:09,470
I mean, if you're going to have a surveillance state,

415
00:27:09,470 --> 00:27:12,209
that is going to get people for guilt for association,

416
00:27:12,209 --> 00:27:15,615
you might want to make sure that there are a few jerks in your phonebook, right?

417
00:27:22,121 --> 00:27:26,474
But the reality is, well, I can cross the border without anything of consequence

418
00:27:26,536 --> 00:27:31,537
that is, me deciding to become subdued, and it is me, deciding to except the oppression.

419
00:27:31,571 --> 00:27:34,015
And everyone here can make that choice,

420
00:27:34,015 --> 00:27:36,384
But I say "Fuck that! That is not a choice we should make!"

421
00:27:36,384 --> 00:27:40,483
That's in fact a coping mechanism, and these kinds of coping mechanisms

422
00:27:40,483 --> 00:27:45,665
are a responsive a lack of agency, a response of total helplessness.

423
00:27:45,665 --> 00:27:49,746
For example, people run throigh their mind, "How will I eat, How will I feed my children"

424
00:27:49,746 --> 00:27:53,301
"How will I educate them if I don't play along, if I don't comply?"

425
00:27:53,301 --> 00:27:55,032
They'll make my life hell".

426
00:27:55,032 --> 00:27:58,232
Part of the problem here, and it is funny to say it here in Europe,

427
00:27:58,232 --> 00:27:59,875
becuase it has a much different context,

428
00:27:59,875 --> 00:28:01,985
part of the problem here is the state.

429
00:28:01,985 --> 00:28:06,213
When the state has the power make you make those kinds of thoughts appear in your head,

430
00:28:06,213 --> 00:28:10,981
and it allows you to create that, and make those choices, we become less free.

431
00:28:12,735 --> 00:28:17,632
So, maybe, recognizing those coping mechanisms and trying to progress to the next one,

432
00:28:17,632 --> 00:28:20,724
trying to progress to the next thought could be helpful.

433
00:28:20,724 --> 00:28:21,967
I think that it is helpful.

434
00:28:21,967 --> 00:28:26,550
For me, and what I have tried to do is that I have tried to recognize that

435
00:28:26,550 --> 00:28:29,721
I am trying to cope with a situation that is impossible to cope with at times.

436
00:28:29,721 --> 00:28:36,154
there is really nothing quite going your night like feeling an entire State is stepping on your throat.

437
00:28:36,893 --> 00:28:39,801
It is not even great at talking about on parties.

438
00:28:39,801 --> 00:28:42,642
I mean, there is not really much that is good about it.

439
00:28:42,642 --> 00:28:48,401
But, there is some good that can come of it. And that is to show other people that it is not total.

440
00:28:48,401 --> 00:28:52,679
That it does not nearly end in tears. I mean, It might, but it doiesn't every single day.

441
00:28:52,679 --> 00:28:55,097
You have to choose how this goes.

442
00:28:55,097 --> 00:28:58,115
I had the oppoertunity to meet the Dalai Lama in India,

443
00:28:58,115 --> 00:29:01,868
about two weeks ago, and to me, the tibetan people who had escaped from tibet

444
00:29:01,868 --> 00:29:06,241
under the opperssive chinese rule, people who had been shot, their stomachs ripped out,

445
00:29:06,241 --> 00:29:12,059
there skull cracked open, their teeth knocked out, their families jailed, you name it, they experienced it.

446
00:29:12,059 --> 00:29:17,391
And I realized, I had no problems. By comparison especially, but I recognized something:

447
00:29:17,391 --> 00:29:23,092
these are the friendlies, niciest people you can imagine. I mean, it is really quite a touching thing,

448
00:29:23,092 --> 00:29:28,405
despite the fact, that about a hundred years ago they were a brutal theocracy, they certainly have learned since then.

449
00:29:28,405 --> 00:29:33,331
And it is the case, that we can decide how it is we cope with these things.

450
00:29:33,331 --> 00:29:39,323
We can become increasingly cold and atomized, we can become destroyed, we can undermine our communities,

451
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we can work against our own interests in the long run or we can try to find joy in the life we have,

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and we can try to have a better world than the one we have just come from, that we have experienced.

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When I look at Bill Binny and Thomas Drake and Justelin Radcliife and john Quircue(sp?),

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who are some amazing whislteblowers in the United States