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<article class="h-entry">
<h1 class="p-name">w3c Annotations meeting <time class="dt-published">2014-04-02</time></h1>
<p><a href="#some-page-anchor">A traditional link (uses ID)</a></p>
<p><a href="#semantic">A legacy link (uses NAME)</a></p>
<p><a href="##OCR+and+manual+transcriptions">A fragmention link (uses text)</a></p>
<hr>
<p><a href="##the">The first element mentioning “the”</a></p>
<p><a href="##the++-1">The last element mentioning “the”</a></p>
<p><a href="#the++-1">The last element mentioning “the” (single hash)</a></p>
<p><a href="##b1">An element with an ID of “#b1”</a></p>
<hr>
<div class="e-content">
<p>
<a class="h-card" href="http://bleeds.info/">Randall Leeds</a>:
</p>
<blockquote id="#b1">
<p>
Annotations are additions - links, block quotes, inline - microformats and microdata; out of band webmention + pingback
</p>
<p>
we want annotations to be decentralized, so they need to interoperate with a data model and component models
</p>
<p>
We are going to need syndication and discovery for annotations
</p>
<p>
we want a more read/write web - we deserve the freedom to reference, not overload URI syntax forever
</p>
<p>
how do we go from out of band to inline? How do you show a remote annotation in the text you're reading
</p>
<p>
existing event targets are DOM element, but we want to target the data -the text of the page idea: event.dataTarget
</p>
<p>
how about a selection pseudo element - can we describe a selection, style it and not modify the DOM - like a:visited
</p>
<p>
we need feed discovery - Activity Streams. Also we need to publish locally and use WebMention <a class="auto-link" href="http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention">http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention</a>
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://www.cgallello.com">Chris Gallello</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
I'm PM on Office Online, working on accessibility - we have annotations in Office and visual studio already
</p>
<p>
red underlines in Word and breakpoints in Visual Studio are annotations form our point of view [machine generated]
</p>
<p>
we've been thinking about how to connect screen readers to annotations - to know there is one, to jump in and out
</p>
<p>
we can use an aria.annotationtype of "comment" and point to the element with the comment with aria.annotatedby
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://github.com/AnnaGerber">Anna Gerber</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
Annotation is used throughout the research process, and for teaching not just as part of publications
</p>
<p>
researchers need to annotate maps, 3D spaces, protein models, sensor data streams , textual variants
</p>
<p>
scholary annotation requirements: citable; precise; of segments/regions; many data types; within dynamic web apps
</p>
<p>
we need to migrate annotations across multiple copies of identical resources, or modified ones
</p>
<p>
stand-off annotation is needed to maintain integrity of original resources
</p>
<p>
we use the Annotea, OA model so have shared generic backend, but need protocols and APIs too
</p>
<p>
the OA model is extremely flexible, but diffciult to implement as the queries are hard to write
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://seanboisen.com">Sean Boisen</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
Logos is a digital library for biblical studies, with very rich annotation and cross referencing tools
</p>
<p>
our app is not out on the web, but a desktop app you download.
</p>
<p>
Bible has book/chapter/verse and we add word, but they are different between some bibles
</p>
<p>
we care about cross-lingual word alignment for annotations, which requires extra standardizations
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://whiteink.com">Nick Stenning</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
data models are simple; protocols harder, but user interactions are hard enough that we'd take us years to agree
</p>
<p>
a bookmarklet is basically a cross-site scripting attack. A standard known as content security policy breaks them
</p>
<p>
Browser extensions are not standardised - every user agent has its own extension model
</p>
<p>
Does anyone know for proposals to allow user-trusted code to run in the DOM in a standard way? Nope
</p>
<p>
we either need to spec ALL the things, or build for pluralism so there are many ways to do it
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://www.linkedin.com/pub/james-williamson/4/324/66b">James Williamson</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
As a publisher, having notes you take on Kindle not translating to ibooks is really annoying
</p>
<p>
we get complaints from readers all the time about the "1000 people marked this page" stuff in Kindle
</p>
<p>
we do pop-ups of footnotes and publication history in our online journals
</p>
<p>
we have third party annotations from reference management and social media crawling
</p>
<p>
the only way to annotate our works is with the "contact us" button that emails the publisher- can take 2 years
</p>
<p>
we have multiple different annotations at different levels of the publishing process paper/Word/PDF
</p>
<p>
we have extensive annotations in our new journals online product , and for assignments and quizzes
</p>
<p>
what happens to annotations when content has been deleted? Or out of print? [odd concept for web]
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://www.fjhirsch.com/">Frederick Hirsch</a>:
<blockquote>
<a name="semantic"></a>
<p>
people annotate books but also movies and sound too where you have to point at timestamps
</p>
<p>
teachers comment on student assignments and students can respond inline
</p>
<p>
provenance of annotations is important - this brings in identity issues. Iterating them is also hard
</p>
<p>
I don't think we should rework the Open Annotation data model, but we need RESTful search and JSON-LD output
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://github.com/AnnaGerber">Anna Gerber</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
we have covered the data model but not the protocol.
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="#">Timothy Cole</a>:
<blockquote>
<p id="some-page-anchor">
for scholarly text we need individual words and phrases as anchors, even when adjacent content is updated
</p>
<p>
correction of OCR and manual transcriptions, and of automated part-of-speech tagging
</p>
<p>
we need proposed corrections to be able to be reviewed and annotated themselves
</p>
<p>
for example we annotate the scan with the original OCR and the OCR with the corrections
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://twitter.com/@EricAubourg">Eric Aubourg</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
STM is a small publisher with complex texts including arabic, hebrew and heiroglyphics
</p>
<p>
our policy is ePub firts, no DRM, one purchase for all formats
</p>
<p>
we have ePub with interactive maps of the Karnak temple that link to images of the wall paintings
</p>
<p>
referencing other works is required for scholarly publications, but page number doesn't work across editions
</p>
<p>
for epub we need something user-raedable and reader-processable - people like "page 23" not ids
</p>
<p>
we need it to be independent of paper, pdf, epub that can survive reflowing, and human readable
</p>
<p>
in epub you can mark the page boundaries of the original document in the HTML but doesn't go the other way
</p>
<p>
numbered paragraphs within chapters can work for finished works - easy to quote
</p>
<p>
we need readable shortcuts, not 64-character hashes - like link shorteners
</p>
<p>
we want the target refernce to be human processable
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://kevinmarks.com">Kevin Marks</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
q: isn't a quotation from the work the most robust reference across paper+ edocs 10 words are unique?
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://twitter.com/@EricAubourg">Eric Aubourg</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
yes, quotation is good and robust, and human readable, but it can be a bit long
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://fchasen.com">Fred Chasen</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
the interactions in the various different document viewers are cumbersome and inconsistent
</p>
<p>
creating the notes content first and then anchoring to the document makes more sense
</p>
<p>
robust note authoring shouldn't block what you are annotating. It should let you re-anchor after composition
</p>
<p>
we need to account for longer notes, that may be longer than the entire text
</p>
<p>
also define print styles for CSS so that users can print out the whole thing
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://twitter.com/@KristofCsillag">Kristof Csillag</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
at <a class="auto-link" href="http://Hypothes.is">Hypothes.is</a> we're working on an annotation system for the web and we have proposed solutions
</p>
<p>
annotating web documentsnis good, but we added PDF, Epub and would like to add scribd and google docs too
</p>
<p>
we define a target with generic selectors xpath, but also text position and text content selectors
</p>
<p>
by having multiple selectors we can use fuzzy matching to find the parts we want
</p>
<p>
there is a problem with dynamic sites, we need dynamic anchoring - comments can be oprhaned
</p>
<p>
knowing what is actually the target across documents can be very hard
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://kevinmarks.com">Kevin Marks</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
if you remove annotations when the document referenced is edited can't unfavourable ones be removed?
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://twitter.com/@KristofCsillag">Kristof Csillag</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
yes, but we can keep orphaned annotations and possibly keep old versions
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://github.com/AnnaGerber">Anna Gerber</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
how do you cope with copyright issues of keeping quotations?
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://twitter.com/@KristofCsillag">Kristof Csillag</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
right now we don't care about copyright - we are focused on making the annotations robust
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://whiteink.com">Nick Stenning</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
there are difficult problems around how you display disappeared content to the user, and how to reanchor
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://tantek.com/">Tantek Çelik</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
the anchoring problem is important - cool URLs don't change
</p>
<p>
question the assumption of annotation providers, how about self-hosted annotation, anchor and context too
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://kevinmarks.com">Kevin Marks</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
we should standardize multiple anchor formats - link, cite, text, image, audio snippet rather than how to be fuzzy
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://github.com/AnnaGerber">Anna Gerber</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
when thinking about anchoring, focus on the content, not just the document format
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://twitter.com/@robertcasties">Robert Casties</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
At the Max Planck Institute for the History of Science, we have historical sources in many forms
</p>
<p>
we want to weave a web of knowledge as Jürgen Renn says
</p>
<p>
when you can collect of all the annotations on a source you get a semantic network of the source
</p>
<p>
we want to annotate images in a resolution independent way, we also want to show relationships and provenance
</p>
<p>
we want more complex co-ordinates and representations [why not use <a class="auto-link" href="http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-preview/image-maps.html">http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-preview/image-maps.html</a>] ?
</p>
<p>
we could use GeoJSON to point to images how would we add this as selectors?
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="https://twitter.com/@raquelalegre">Raquel Alegre</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
at University of Reading, I work on CHARMe which annotates climate datasets
</p>
<p>
Scientists get huge numbers of options for data from data providers, but the annotations aren't lined
</p>
<p>
A climate Dataset may be a table, a time series, a map a 3d model or an animation
</p>
<p>
climate data users reserach timing, specific areas of the world, and comparing datasets
</p>
<p>
climate data comes in 2d, 3d and 4d formats - layers of images at different res or sensors
</p>
<p>
we need ways to point to space and time -we have geolocation and time units for most of this
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://greggkellogg.net/">Gregg Kellogg</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
how can I use an API without coding for it? Define operations on classes and properties
</p>
<p>
annotations are the results of operations acting on entities
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://about.me/jsonhaag">Jason Haag</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
I'm from the IEEE Learning Technology Standards Committee and we are working on storage APIs
</p>
<p>
our Tin Can API is based on <a class="auto-link" href="http://activitystrea.ms">activitystrea.ms</a> - Actor, Verb, Object
</p>
<p>
the xAPI records learning experiences using activites
</p>
<p>
IEEE wants to use EPUB3 as sustainable format for technical content, with action tracking by xAPI
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://23rdCenturyRomance.com">Jake Hartnell</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
I'm a science fiction writer - heres a shameless plug for my book a 23rd century romance
</p>
<p>
in 2018, web annotation will be implemented in the browser we can refer to anything
</p>
<p>
the annotation document needs to be stored somewhere - think of it as channels
</p>
<p>
the browser queries all the channels the user subscribes to, kinda like rss feeds and they load in a sidebar
</p>
<p>
Annotation is a kind of advanced linking
</p>
<p>
the browser should provide a space for these attached documents to live and be viewed
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://gerardocapiel.com">Gerardo Capiel</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
annotation is a powerful tool for accessibility of non-textual content when authors forget to put it in
</p>
<p>
images tend to lack proper descriptions and mathematics is often done as images, not MathML
</p>
<p>
Video description has even less support
</p>
<p>
today, Blind and vision impaired students get support by others annotating video and images
</p>
<p>
we need unified standards for annotation so that the efforts of people who do accessible annotation this can spread
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://creativecommons.org/staff#puneetkishor">Puneet Kishor</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
Copyright is a rats nest. I'm not a lawyer, I want to avoid unleashing the rats. I work at Creative Commons
</p>
<p>
our job at Creative Commons is to keep this unfettered by the law
</p>
<p>
annotations may not start out with enough original material to be copyrightable, but could grow into cliffs notes
</p>
<p>
every annotation should carry the information with it to determine legal status [presumably cc license]
</p>
<p>
people can assert what they want in the way of attribution and commercial use with CC license
</p>
<p>
our latest version of Creative Commons, CC4 will cover database licences too, Should be stable to use now
</p>
<p>
Creative Commons don't restrict people, they enable people. That's always the goal.
</p>
<p>
you can only licence what you create, not someone else's stuff. The snippets [anchors] should be fair use
</p>
<p>
copyright attaches to original authorship fixed in a tangible medium - CC lets you disclaim
</p>
<p>
</p>
</blockquote>
<a class="h-card" href="http://tantek.com/">Tantek Çelik</a>:
<blockquote>
<p>
both APA and MLA citation styles for tweets include the entire text of the tweet - they don't mention licensing
</p>
</blockquote>
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</article>