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Afternoon notes for day26.

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@@ -42,8 +42,8 @@ Byron Trial, Day 26 (Week 7)
* Judge: It is either expert opinion or lay opinion...
* Crown: ... "Hackers and people who try to defile (?) the system to show that they are better ... and superior to people of certain levels of intelligence or ... skill"
-* Defense: the evidence of Oullet is entirely speculative on this point. There is nothing suggesting goat is an acronym.
-* Judge: It seems that it has to be if he can give this evidence from his personal experience. Whether Mr. Sonne meant that when he used it is a seperate issue than if goat gets used that way...
+* Defense: the evidence of Oullett is entirely speculative on this point. There is nothing suggesting goat is an acronym.
+* Judge: It seems that it has to be if he can give this evidence from his personal experience. Whether Mr. Sonne meant that when he used it is a separate issue than if goat gets used that way...
* Defense: Then it has not rerelevance without that point. There is Mr. Sonne's registration of that nickname from June 11 2009 on freenode. We have variations on flickr, twitter and the pirate bay. "the goat" makes some sense. But some of the others don't make sense if you expand it. We don't have any evidence of the first use of the name. And it there is nothing connecting it to the matter at hand. And the Crown's use of this is a very subtle use of character reference; going from the name to the acronym to Mr. Sonne's ego to it being of relevance to the court. Any value is greatly outweighed by the prejudicial effect.
* Judge: the prejudicial effect is the ...
* Defense: Yes.
@@ -75,16 +75,16 @@ Byron Trial, Day 26 (Week 7)
* Crown: They were involved.
* Judge: Setting aside the lack of connection to Mr. Sonne, where is the connection of that to the TCMN?
* Judge: Setting aside the relevance of the action of two members in the group to the rest -- that's like guilty by association! -- where is the connection?
-* Crown: We have counscelling to commit violence at the G20...
+* Crown: We have counseling to commit violence at the G20...
* Judge: Do we even know it was related to the G20?
* Crown: It was in the ASF of that case?
* Judge: Mr. Copeland, is the TCMN in the G20?
-* Crown: No. That isn't there. ... But if you read the ASF... No particular group was mentioned... The discussions there lead to the counscelling....
+* Crown: No. That isn't there. ... But if you read the ASF... No particular group was mentioned... The discussions there lead to the counseling....
* Judge: I have had a chance to read this yet...
-* Crown: Ms. Henderson was present at Souther Ontario Anararchist... (SOAR) meetings. ... Ms Henderson was well respected.
+* Crown: Ms. Henderson was present at Souther Ontario Anarchist... (SOAR) meetings. ... Ms Henderson was well respected.
* Judge: And there is no connection between Mr. Sonne and SOAR?
* Crown: No. But that connects to the TCMN...
-* Judge: ... You're basically trying to suggest that he had some connection to two woman who plead guilty to counscelling mischief... I don't even see the basis of the argument! ... I'm concerned that the relevance is non-existent!
+* Judge: ... You're basically trying to suggest that he had some connection to two woman who plead guilty to counseling mischief... I don't even see the basis of the argument! ... I'm concerned that the relevance is non-existent!
* Crown: The thread is this. Mr. Sonne offered to assist in an email the TCMN. The TCMN was giving a black block tactics...
* Judge: That first part is in? ... It would be pure speculation. They could have been out advocating that behavior at all sorts of places. In fact, looking at the evidence, it seems that this was related to another group Mr. Sonne had no connection to.
* Crown: ...
@@ -98,7 +98,7 @@ Byron Trial, Day 26 (Week 7)
* Crown: But in the agreed statement for that case, it says she encouraged people to smash windows.
* Crown: I'll pull up the email.
* ...
-* Judge: It's "Anarachism in the 21st century" ... black block tactics.
+* Judge: It's "Anarchism in the 21st century" ... black block tactics.
* Judge: Let me see if I've got this all right. Mr. Sonne is on the mailing list for the TCMN. He gets an email about a presentation where Hiscoscks and Henderson were going to speak about "black block or diversity of tactics". We have no evidence that Mr. Sonne attended or that he associated with these woman. Those emails are in, whatever they mean. Now you want me to accept that their guilty pleas and use that to infer about the nature of the talk?
* Crown: SOAR is the Southern Ontario *Anarchist* Resistance ... Logistics subcomittee...
* Crown: That is the only link I have your honor. I can't go any farther than that.
@@ -121,11 +121,265 @@ Byron Trial, Day 26 (Week 7)
**Break**
* Crown: It's long and in my opinion hard reading.
+* Judge: Let's stop for lunch and resume at 2:15
+**Lunch**
+* Defense: The witness is Mr. Fredrick Supinski
+* (Fredrick sworn in)
+* How old are you?
+ * 31.
+* Tell us about your education background?
+ * High school graduate.
+ * Done work in information security. I'm a CISSP.
+* What line of work are you in currently?
+ * I'm in a company called (unpronounceable)
+ * (Business card passed around.
+ * Normally called G&D.
+* What does G&D do?
+ * Printing secure documents. Bank notes. Electronic payment cards... Government IDs: Passports, Health cards... Currency sorting machines for central banks.
+* You security card looks a lot like a chip card?
+ * Yes. ... It's a great way to show the point...
+* ...
+* What do you do specifically?
+ * Risk management, compliance and information security.
+* Can you explain what it takes to become a CISSP?
+ * There several components. Five years of practice within the industry. Then a written exam. Then you have to be vouched for by a member of the IC². Then there can be an audit.
+* What is the industry you're working in? What would it be called?
+ * Information security, security. Security is a broad area and could include locks, doors. Information security making sure your....
+* When did you get your qualification?
+ * I became fully certified in the September of last year.
+* How many other people at your location have that designation?
+ * I'm only aware of one other person...
+* What is TASK?
+ * It's how I initially got involved in the industry. It was started by an individual where people share information, do presentations. The format is a monthly meeting with two one and half presentations...
+* Where does it take place?
+ * The university of Toronto.
+* How many people go?
+ * I'd say 150. It depends. When law enforcement presents, more.
+* What sort of people present?
+ * Representatives of the Privacy..., Law Enforcement.
+* What sort of people?
+ * Students -- UofT now has a information security curriculum --, people who work at banks...
+* Is there formalized membership?
+ * Not really.
+* How do you end up presenting?
+ * You talk to the organizers. They see if your presentation is good enough. Sometimes people are asked to present. I was fortunate enough to have that happen.
+* You said fortunate? What does it mean to be asked to present?
+ * That you have a good reputation... I don't know how to explain it exactly.
+* What is SecTor?
+ * It's a security education conference. Security researchers are brought in... They present on the latest research... (police officer is talking to someone in audience, can't really hear)
+* (Woman in audience is having a seizure)
+* Judge: There's a mental issue in the audience. We'll have a fifteen minute break.
+* (Paramedics called; asked to clear the courtroom)
+**Break (much longer than 15 minutes...)**
+* Crown: I've provided a new thumbdrive without the password if you'd prefer to use that...
-(If she can't tell what the black block tactics without this email, how could Byron?)
-
+* Defense: How many people attend SecTor?
+ * ...
+* Defense: How does one make a name in the security industry?
+ * Share knowledge, doing research, passing on knowledge, using application?
+* Where does one share their skills? TASK and SecTor?
+ * And others.
+* Attending conferences for your CISSP?
+ * TASK, SecTor, bigger ones.
+* DO you get paid for?
+ * ...
+* Are you familiar with hacklab?
+ * Yes.
+* How are you familiar?
+ * I was one of the original members. It was originally a group at a friends place. We weren't building hardware or anything at that time. We were chatting. It quickly became clear that the condo wasn't the right place, so they were incorporated and got space in Kensignton.
+ * It's almost like a coop. Members pay a monthly fee, at the time $50, and you can use tools. Those tools are generally donated by members or organizations that don't need them. Sometimes members pool their money together...
+* You were one of the founders?
+ * I wasn't on the incorporation papers and wasn't on the lease. I ... for the security system.
+* How do you get into the hacklab?
+ * Deadbolt and password, two factor right there. And then there's a security system.
+* ...
+* When you talk about tools, I think of hammers?
+ * They do have hammers and screw drivers, but also soldering irons, laser engraver, two 3d printers..
+* What is a 3D printer?
+ * It's... The best way to describe it... It extrudes plastic or some other substance in a controlled fasion and go back and forth and build a 3D object?
+* Does Makerbot ring a bell?
+ * Yes.
+* What is it?
+ * I'm thinking more of RepRap. We also have a cupcake that I think is made by a Makerbot company.
+* How many members does hacklab have?
+* Judge: Are you still involved?
+ * No. I still attend open houses. At that time we had 35 members.
+* Why did you stop?
+ * I had a project that got put on hold. And I had lots of work that pulled me into Marcom. ... I would do hacklab related activities.
+* Judge: What would hacklab related activities be?
+ * Working on projects. For example, someone was trying to speed up the extruder.
+* What sort of things would go on at hacklab?
+ * Building hardware. One of the most popular was our toilet. It had a piece of hardware that would tweet whenever someone flushed. People were also designing 3D printers. And the laser engraver, laser cutter I guess, we got it on Cregislist and the control electronic was broken, so we replaced it.
+* What sort of people at hacklab?
+ * Artists, network admins, programmers, people would bring their kids buy, people going around in Kensington.
+* Was there a general attitude?
+ * Safety, abiding by the law. There's a lot of people who think because of the word hacker that we were going to help the "hack", especially on our IRC channel.
+* Judge: IRC?
+ * Internet Relay Chat
+* You know Byron SOnne?
+ * Yeah. We met at TASK.
+* How long ago?
+ * 4 or 5 years ago.
+* At the meeting?
+ * Or at the pub night.
+* What was your relationship with him?
+ * We were acquaintances at TASK, and he was in the same industry. We became closer at hacklab. I was looking at having him do some consulting for me. He was a CISSP and I wasn't, and I thought he was a better candidate do some things.
+* He seemed to live at hacklab?
+ * He was there on a weekly basis. He would clean the lab.
+* You have an interest in rocketry?
+ * Yes.
+* How long?
+ * Since the Challenger launch. My parents pulled me out of school to watch. I used to launch model rockets.
+* Apart from a childhood interest, did you have another interest in rockets?
+ * Yes. In April 2009, I was getting into open source. I used to be a Windows Admin and then it kind of dawned on me.
+* Can you explaining what Linux is.
+ * For the most part, Linux is an open source piece of software...
+* Judge: Spell Linux?
+ * ...
+ * It's an open source piece of software, so anyone who wants to make modifications can, and its free. You might be familiar with Red Hat.
+* Linux has a following?
+ * It's used for lots of companies for servers.
+* There's a divide between Linux and Windows users?
+ * ... A bit like Windows and Mac.
+* How does that fit into your interest in rocketry?
+ * I was subscribed to a Linux magazine. It taught me a lot and exposed me to lots of information.
+* What magazines were you reading?
+ * I think the one the court was would be most interested in is the Linux Journal.
+* (passed something)
+* Do you recognize this?
+ * Yes, it's a magazine I bought in 2009.
+* Was there anything in particular that caught your eye?
+ * An article on rocketry.... May I look? (Yes) Portland ... rocket...
+* I read the article: Linux powered rocket goes... What was this interested?
+ * ..
+* Judge: Can I stop you there. I assume that open source means the same thing...
+* What does open source means?
+ * All the designs are open source
+* Judge: So you can find it easily on the Internet?
+ * You could have it mailed. It's not really about where you get it, it's about the designs being freely available.
+* Judge: Go on.
+* Did the open source part catch your eye?
+ * Yes. It made it more approachable. I started researching how I could replicate it. I found out about the CRA. If you want to build rockets over a certain strength, you need to register.
+ * I'd started designing the aeronautics of the rocket. Tracking how it rolls and moves.
+* That was of interest to you?
+ * Yes. If you want to figure out how high up it went, you need...
+* Would this be involved in guiding or steering the rocket?
+ * No. In theory you could design such a thing, but you need to a physical drive system.
+ * There isn't anything on the books against having a steering system, but you can't target something.
+* So, to make sure I've got the clear?
+ * ... I would be using digital gyroscopes, which couldn't steer.
+* To be clear, the ones you were designing couldn't be steered?
+ * No.
+* What is telemetry?
+ * Sending back information... Sometimes the parachute won't deploy, so you'll loose information if it crashes...
+ * Sometimes you'll send images or videos if you have that sort of system on board.
+ * Some information you won't be able to beam down, but will be stored on an SD card...
+* What kind of information would you want to collect?
+ * The angle of the rocket, the acceleration, the roll. If it spins rapidly it could indicate a design flaw or problem with a fin.
+* How does the collecting this data relate to your project?
+ * The Portland state aerospace society had big components that cost a lot. I'd like to make a smaller version that costs less.
+* (Journal made an exhibit)
+* (passes something new)
+ * Schematic
+* Why did you obtain this schematic?
+ * I wanted to base my desing off it.
+ * You can see parts being removed.
+ * ... 802-11 -- wireless networking, the same as in modern laptops.
+ * Some other systems have lots of microcontrollers. I wanted to use fewer or an x86... (explains different architectures) ... I saw one motherboard that was the size of a stick of gum.
+* You're going over this and designing your own version?
+ * Yes.
+* Where were you?
+ * The very early stages. Because of my own company, I couldn't invest in expensive hardware.
+* You mentioned certifications? How did you find out about this?
+ * I googled. I found out about a club in Toronto, NAPAS and also CAR.
+* What did you learn ...
+ * CAR certifies within Canada, NAPAS arranges launch days where they organize a space and set things up to launch... They provide a lot of oversight to the hoby.
+* What does the certification involve?
+ * two parts for your level one. There's a written exam that you need 100% to pass. And then there's a demonstration that you can safely launch and recover your rocket.
+* What type of rocket of your level one?
+ * About 2-3 feet in length, they'll get up several thousand feet.
+* What other levels?
+ * 2-3, then there's 4 where you have to design your own rocket from scratch. This follows up with a successful launch.
+* Was this rocketry idea discussed at hacklab?
+ * Yes. It was my side project at hacklab. There was interest from other members in the lab, especially Byron.
+* What was Byron's involvement?
+ * He wanted to put a camera in. And he started researching building engines. He saw that as a way to save money in the long run, as we went for higher levels of certification. We were interested in starting a company. We're both entrepreneurial.
+* Was there discussion of the certification?
+ * Yes. The Ministry of Natural Resources is interested to make sure there aren't any negative effects... Transport Canada is involved because your sending things through aerospace. And later we became aware of an additional requirement before building an engine...
+* What was the state before arrest?
+ * We had decided to not build the rocket, because we needed to get permits first. We were looking into finding someone with NAPAS who was already licensed and we could work with.
+* So, I want to get into some chats.
+* Can you explain how that works? Hacklab has an IRC channel?
+ * Hacklab has a channel on a third party site, freenode.org. You join the channel, #hacklabto. Maybe it was #hacklab.
+* Kind of like watching television. If I "tune" in to #hacklabto I can see conversation?
+ * You don't necessarily have to pay attention, you can just check and see if anything interesting is happening or if someone has talked to you.
+* It's open?
+ * To anyone, around the world.
+* How do people identify themselves?
+ * they use aliases.
+* You?
+ * Fredrick, my name.
+* Byron?
+ * the_goat.
+* Can you capture chat logs?
+ * A server could. Or anyone participating in the conversation.
+* How many people were on?
+* Judge: This is the hacklab channel?
+ * A couple dozen.
+* You can see others?
+ * Yes.
+* If you're on a chat room, can you have a private chat?
+ * Yes. You don't even have to be in the same chat room. Just double clikc.
+* No more difficult than double clicking on a handle.
+ * Yeah.
+* I'm going to show you some excerpts. Can you identify them.
+* Starting the first one? It's an excerpt, not a full day of chat.
+* How long might a chat last?
+ * The chat goes on indefinitely. people come and go.
+* Are you familiar with this excerpt?
+ * So far it is familiar.
+* I see your name. And this is hacklab chat?
+ * Yes.
+* And, to the best of your knowledge, the_goat would be Byron.
+ * Yes.
+* Byron posts a phot and mentions a price.
+* At @Optic comments. That's another member?
+ * Yes.
+* And you know who Optic is?
+ * Optic is Dan Fraser.
+* Optic asks why you need it, Byron responds that you can use it to make cheap rocket fuel with sugar, Optic responds that it isn't expensive, but large ones are hard to find. You chime in about licenses, Byron says that it would only be illegal if he got caught, and you say that something in aerospace would be.
+* Talk about that?
+ * Well, I'm sure a rocket would get noticed in aerospace.
+ * Once you get certified, you could do it properly.
+* You then provide some links?
+ * On registration...
+* You then mention a launch.
+ * I was planning on going.
+* Byron talks about how he's a long way from launching and preparing to make fuel. You tell him that he needs to be careful of limitations on rocket fuel. Why do you say that?
+ * I didn't want us to run into any issues.
+* Byron talks about p-t-z the camera. What does that mean?
+ * Pan, Tilt, Zoom.
+* Byron says: Next material, ... clay. There's crazy science that goes into rocket design.
+* You respond that Byron was going for level four already and then a goofy face.
+ * ...
+* (Discussion of what :P means)
+* Nozzle?
+ * To direct the propulsion...
+* You talk about working with someone and Byron agrees...
+ * Yes.
+* ... (jokes about not wanting to live near Byron; Byron talking about going slow)
+* Comment about stepper gears for pressing rocket engines.
+ * Getting beyond the area I'm really familiar with.... Automated...
+* You talk about how if one manufactured them and then registered them, you could sell them...
+* You talk about not knowing what's involved...
+* Then there's elmood. Who is elmood?
+ * His name slips my mind. I don't recall if he's on hacklab's board. But he's an active hacklaber, ... Oh, I remember Andrew Kilpatrick.
+* elmood asks what is that and Byron responds that it if for making Potassium Chlorate.
+* Alistair jokes about limbs being blown off. Byron responds that doing things safely is what is taking as long. And that he'll be happy if he is launching rockets in a year. Do you recall that?
+ * I was presumably logged in, but I probably wasn't looking at the screen.
+**We reconvene tomorrow at 10am.**
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