#22667 replaced occurrences of master/slave terminology with leader/follower #2692

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@fcurella
Contributor

The docs and some tests contain references to a master/slave db configuration.
While this terminology has been used for a long time, those terms may carry racially charged meanings to users.
This patch replaces all occurrences of master and slave with 'leader' and 'follower'

@alex alex merged commit 8a95b4f into django:master May 20, 2014
@alex
Member
alex commented May 20, 2014

Thanks for taking the time to do this!

@PunKeel
PunKeel commented May 26, 2014

Are you serious ?
The meaning of a word is defined by its use, by the context.
In this case, master/slave is used by every database server, in every documentation (redis, mysql …)

NB: I don't say I'm against this change. Just that I don't see the point of changing two words with two others just because they have been used somewhere else.
For example, your avatar is red. Red, like communism. You should use a black and white color. Oh no, that's linked to racism too. Well. Let's remove colors, too, then ? ;)

@kamilogorek

Is that a real life?

@evildmp
Contributor
evildmp commented May 26, 2014

As you can see from beec056 the terminology we have actually used is "primary/replica". So thank you for your interest, but there's nothing to see here and you can move along now.

@jonathan3

Before the flood of white male HN dwellers truly kicks off and obliterates all reasonable discussion, I'd like to thank the Django team for taking the time to do this.

@wodim
wodim commented May 26, 2014

i'm just here for the laughs. is IT becoming too stupid? has science gone too far?

@jleclanche
Contributor

Discussion on the ticket: https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/22667
"Primary" and "Replica" aren't especially bad choices, but they're also wrong. The correct terms are master and slave. They've been used in databases, hardware setups, server setups and god knows what else for god knows how long.

I cannot f_ing believe this PR made it through and was given actual man hours when there are massive outstanding PRs and patches on trac that need real attention. And don't be surprised that this does make it on HN and probably later on the usual slashdot/phoronix and what not. This is stupid *and_ controversial which is exactly what tech media loves.

And to the HN/whatever crowd, don't post stupid memes here. This isn't the place.

Help yourselves and revert this, guys. Django docs, or docs in general are not the place to make up new terms for stuff that already exists.

PS: Quick heads up: This made it to 4chan and various other troll places. Do not be surprised if there's suddenly an influx of .. weird comments.

@jardaroh

This is silly.
Next we will remove all mention og objects because some people might feel objectified.
Or classes, because of the poor people that feels they are being discriminated against.

Sure, I understand that the use of words can hurt, but words themselves carry no meaning outside of it's use. Saying a car is yellow and calling a person yellow are two very different statements. We seem to have a new round of book burnings going on today...

@Gwildor
Gwildor commented May 26, 2014

Guys, just ignore this. These are bots who do this automatically for projects, which have been circling around on Github lately. There are also ones about feminism etc. The Linux kernel also had a PR like this a few months ago with a massive amount of responses on it.

Don't feed the trolls, and just continue to use master and slave.

@ajgon
ajgon commented May 26, 2014

Faith in humanity restored. Thank you guys. I just want to add, that this will also be bad for django itself, since almost every developer who is no aware of this will be confused, and trust me - he will be expecting that this is some bizarre django thing, not the well known pattern. Peace.

@lynnco
lynnco commented May 26, 2014

Thanks so much Django for doing this thing! <3

@gregferrell

Good move. Thank you.

@Thesoro
Thesoro commented May 26, 2014

Excellent stuff. Thanks for doing that.

@lynnco
lynnco commented May 26, 2014

I'm very glad for this change because as a PoC I felt very uncomfortable seeing and using this terminology in my code

@Ragzouken

glad to see big projects taking this seriously

@kittenpies

Thanks Django for making this important change to be more welcoming and inclusive to more members of the tech community. <3

@northofnormal

"they've always been called that" is a dumb reason to keep doing something, especially something that is hurtful or alienating. Kudos to Django for making this change!

@dstaley
dstaley commented May 26, 2014

The use of the terms master and slave in relation to databases (and hardware configurations) has always made me uncomfortable. I think the terms leader and follower are much more appropriate, and are actually more expressive. ❤️ to the Django team for making this change!

@tingley
tingley commented May 26, 2014

These terms have been in use forever, but that doesn't make them good. Fixing them has to start somewhere; good for Django for taking the lead.

@copumpkin

👍

@RobotDisco

Wow, this is awesome! Thanks!

@gesa
gesa commented May 26, 2014

👍
Great job @fcurella, thank you @alex & Django.

@selenamarie

Thanks @fcurella!

@maban
maban commented May 26, 2014

Thank you! :)

@joliss
joliss commented May 26, 2014

Awesome change, thanks @fcurella! "Primary/replica" sounds much better.

@acarback

Excellent.

@clundie
clundie commented May 26, 2014

Good. The old terminology should be made obsolete.

@ashaindlin
Contributor

Thank you so much for making this change!

@fhocutt
fhocutt commented May 26, 2014

Good change!

@ubiquill

Awesome change. Another reason to love the Django project :)

@coderanger

👍 👍 👍 👍 👍

@rivalee
rivalee commented May 26, 2014

Good change, thank you!

@fujin
fujin commented May 26, 2014

Great work. 👍

@onoffleftright

Excellent change! Actually dealing with a database replication issue myself right now. Semantics matter; even in technical documentation. I'll be using "primary" and "replica" from here on out.

@drcable
drcable commented May 26, 2014

Language changes through use. We have a chance to change language for the better(or at least, less-racist. I imagine there are people in this thread who don't think that's better), and we're taking it.

This is great work by django 👍

@nslater
nslater commented May 26, 2014

We switched to primary and replica at work a long time ago. Good move.

@joestump

@evildmp I'm 👍 on primary/replica over leader/follower. Thanks to the Django team for pulling in this PR!

@ElephantInTheServerRoom

Thanks to Django for making this change. For along time, I've wanted an alternative to "master" and "slave" because of their colonialism and slavery connotations, but could not think of one. "Leader" and "follower" are great replacements and I will use them from now on when documenting my database syncs.

@dannypage

I was explaing some hardware terms to a friend just a few weeks again, and really reflected on how bad those terms are, for many different reasons. Leader and follower make much more sense, thanks for your work!

@unixwitch

Nice work :)

@joey
joey commented May 26, 2014

Thanks for adopting more inclusive terminology!

@TheIronBorn

Well done. Thank you for switching terms

@mike-healy

Is Leader/Follower a dig at victims of cults?

@numberten

Glad to see that people aren't afraid to replace negative terminology, simply due to its widespread use.
👍

@beadsland

"Are you serious? ... In this case, master/slave is used by every database server..."

That the bias is systemic in the industry doesn't make it legitimate. Django has a choice here, to be a leader and change the language, or be a follower and continue to use problematic language because everybody does.

@jardaroh

@mike-healy very good question.

@juliepagano

Thank you for making this change!

@ccbean
ccbean commented May 26, 2014

+1 for primary / replica, thanks so much for making this change!

@CoralineAda

You are leading the way. Thank you.

@polotek
polotek commented May 26, 2014

This is worth doing. Thanks to the django maintainers and the community support being shown here.

@ben0x539

Definitely a good change and more importantly a symbolic step in the right direction. High fives all around.

@poetix
poetix commented May 26, 2014

Primary/replica is a good replacement terminology for something that's been giving me the heebie-geebies for a while now. Thanks to whoever thought up the alternative, and to whoever implemented it here.

@dstaley
dstaley commented May 26, 2014

Just a note to people suggesting primary/replica: the project is now using that instead of leader and follower.

@fujin
fujin commented May 26, 2014

@dstaley looks like there are some issues with that commit: beec056#commitcomment-6451514

@leafstorm

I would like to chime in agreeing with this change. In addition to not having racist connotations, primary/replica is a more accurate description of what happens in database replication.

@tkwidmer

Thank you so much for making this change.

@smokingpancake

Thanks as a DevOP, I've always had to endure BS snickering and jokes about being a dominatrix when trying to have a civil conversation about databases. Maybe there's hope this will change globally. And I much prefer primary/replica to the leader/follower, too, since that's a more technical pair that will be more easily understood....without the BS about being a dominatrix. :)

@silentbicycle

Thanks for making this change, hopefully this can set some kind of precedent.

@schjetne

I've objected to the terms master and slave in the computer world since about the early nineties when I was building my first computer and had to deal with those terms. I found it offensive at 13 years old and I still find it offensive. "It's always been that way" is the crutch of those terrified of change.

Thank you. Great initiative.

@mdennehy

DB2 doesn't use master-slave, it uses primary-standby and occasionally replica. And it's been that way for quite a few years now, so it's by definition not universal, just widespread.

If using different labels for the same thing makes some developers feel more comfortable and it doesn't affect anything on the technical level, why even bother arguing? Just change it and move on. You lose nothing and probably gain developers.

@kmohrf
kmohrf commented May 26, 2014

yay! 👍

@jessepollak

👍

@viniciushana

That's great, thank you for making this change!

@jteneycke

Thanks for replacing the names ones with fewer negative connotations! Tech should be the leading the way with progressive social refactoring of language. 👍

@xamebax
xamebax commented May 26, 2014

Awesome. ♥

@bheitkem

Thank you for making this change. As jteneycke said, tech has the greatest influence in social change and I appreciate every step.

@minuteman3

👍 This is brilliant. Thank you, hopefully other projects will follow suit.

@johnbcoughlin

This is fantastic! Thanks for making an effort to use inclusive language, Django :D

@aanand
aanand commented May 26, 2014

Constantly impressed by the Python community's ability to be inclusive, considerate and ahead of the curve. Nice job, folks.

@micahherstand

Language is dynamic and always in motion, kind of like software. I'm very supportive of any language changes that make the project more inclusive. Thank you. 👍

@Monocotyledon

Glad to see this inclusive change gaining traction against status quo stagnancy!

@lionelbarrow

Great change, good work Django team! Don't let the nay-sayers drag you down -- this is a small step on the road to a more inclusive community.

@ffffux
ffffux commented May 26, 2014

Thank you for the work you put into this, I'm so glad to see this happen.

@amboy00
amboy00 commented May 26, 2014

@mdennehy Spot on. Way to go Django team.

@kellenfujimoto

Love it. To the dissenting mouth-breathers: you may not want to participate in a society of respect and inclusiveness, but you will be left behind just like the racists.

@madmalik

thumbs up

@kkszysiu

:feelsgood: :shipit: 👍

@vilhalmer

Thank you so much for ignoring the "it's always been this way" argument and getting this change made. Primary/replica is perfect terminology going forward.

@chatrjr
chatrjr commented May 26, 2014

I'm grateful my first encounter with problem terminology is in a commit that also provides more appropriate terms. 'Cause that would have been all kinds of discomfort.

@quephird

I approve of this. 👍

@locks
locks commented May 26, 2014

❤️ 💚 💙 💛 💜

@nickcolley

🚢 Nice to see positive comments on this type of issue for once with little challenge.

@nslater
nslater commented May 26, 2014

Going to follow Django's lead here.

Have created COUCHDB-2248 for a similar update to CouchDB.

@RHesketh

This is a great change, and should be an example to other open source projects.

@kristopherjohnson

Thank you. A very positive change.

@vexorian

This is a great idea. Simple wording change that improves experience for many.

@exclude
exclude commented May 26, 2014

primary/replica would be better.

but I don't see any problem with master/slave, if you see the problem is you not the term.

@zerkms
zerkms commented May 26, 2014

It's not the best idea to change well established terminology

xkcd: Standards

@paulsmith

👍 @fcurella!

@vexorian

We make new trendy names for "big data" and the spiral method every single new year. We should be easily able to get over slave/master :P

@aredridel

Or as many have called them for years: "writable" and "read-only replica"

@emilssolmanis

Is it at all ironic that this got merged into master?

@kerstin
kerstin commented May 26, 2014

Oh wow, I remember when I first heard and saw masters and slaves mentioned in IT contexts and how baffled I was by that. Thanks for suggesting these changes and cool to know that others have been using different terms for a while now, I wasn't aware of that! 🎉

@vexorian

Hey Github, could you please show that you are a safe place by removing the troll accounts like the "Feminist Software Foundation" ? It is a silly strawman (the issue with master/slave is mainly slave) these guys are contributing nothing to github and only look to make it less safe.

@adamyeats

👍 thank you for merging! <3

@vexorian

👍 But whatever, thank you Django for merging. It means a lot that you care.

@inc0
inc0 commented May 28, 2014

I feel sorry for people who will do apt-get update python-django after this one...

@heikki
heikki commented May 28, 2014

I have been puzzled by this thread for a day and a half. The best result from googling led me to this:
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/05/empathetically-correct-is-the-new-politically-correct/371442/

@CheatEx
CheatEx commented May 28, 2014

#22667 replaced occurrences of master/slave terminology with leader/follower #2692
alex merged 1 commit into django:master from fcurella:patch-5 8 days ago

Guys, I think you forgot something...

@heikki
heikki commented May 28, 2014

.. the next best to this: http://imgur.com/gallery/MTlJr

@Koviko
Koviko commented May 28, 2014

This whole thing is ridiculous...

@funny-falcon

@suprMax I'm Russian in at least 5 generations. I have nothing against history of my nation. I'm proud to be Slavic and Russian.
If word "slave" were formed after "Slavic", it is just a history. Since that many achievement were maid by Slavic nations.

@07151129

@funny-falcon

hystory

lrn2pravopisanie

@robinbentley

Completely and utterly pointless.

@dzautner

This is hilarious.

@johnvpetersen

What's interesting is how this change makes things more inclusive. I seriously doubt that there is a single instance of anybody who refused to use this framework on the basis of taxonomy. And if there was, there was always the remedy of forking (perhaps we should change that term too...) and making the change there. Done & problem solved. BUT - if you are expressing outrage today but nevertheless, used the framework, then IMHO, you, at best, are feigning outrage and in reality, it is more important for you to appear to be outraged than actually outraged. It's really nothing more than propping up your social cred and in reality, being a hypocrite.

If it is something that matters to you, great. What is off-putting is the outrage that some have toward others for not having the same outrage. A non-functional change like this - to the trunk is a bit of a misguided and naïve decision.

@jordanekay

Thanks for making this change! Much needed.

@ghost
ghost commented May 28, 2014

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who dislikes this terminology. I've shrugged it off when others use it but I've also avoided it in my own speech/writing/naming conventions.

@vexorian

@speakingcode : It's a db, not a history lesson -.-

@chrifpa
chrifpa commented May 28, 2014

<3

@Nincodedo

:|

@davidcelis

Not really sure why this matters.

It is exactly a master/slave relationship. The slave does exactly what the master says or it gets out of sync. If it was a leader/follower relationship, the yarn would break and the child would wander away.

@artschwagerb Please read the entire discussion before you contribute. A separate patch was merged in quickly after this one that changes the terminology to primary/replica, which is also widely used and understood.

@lucjan
lucjan commented May 28, 2014

"Please read the entire discussion before you contribute." haha joker....

@fprochazka

This is a joke, right?

@bornmw
bornmw commented May 28, 2014

This is a great move!
Hopefully that's just the beginning.
We need to rename icons to something else b/c religious stuff assaults some people
And Daemons -- why would anyone want to have daemons in HER system? They are satan!
Agents - I hate them, especially special agents, don't want no KGB staff on my lappy!
That's just top three for starters

@jarinudom

Any time someone uses the term "political correctness" as a pejorative, I automatically assume they're about to say something borderline racist, haha.

Anyway, I am not super gung ho about this change but what's the harm in being a little culturally sensitive about slavery?

Also this is going to be hilarious for some of you when prospective employers check out your GitHub history

@dannyob
dannyob commented May 28, 2014

Thanks for doing this.

@rachelkelly

thanks for doing this. language evolves, I've always found this terminology to be uncomfortable, and I was disappointed when I learned it was standard, many years ago. glad for this step in the right direction.

@jamtur01

Good change. +1.

@non
non commented May 29, 2014

👍

@jasonrhodes

👍 for the change, but this is a really depressing thread…

@zenhob
zenhob commented May 29, 2014

👍

@zenparty

👍

@gwachob
gwachob commented May 29, 2014

+1 This should change, and good on the Django project for stepping up when obviously it isn't easy to convince everyone of the merit of the change.

@qu1j0t3
qu1j0t3 commented May 29, 2014

I think this is a very positive step. Thankyou!

@ksze
ksze commented May 29, 2014

Let me play the devil's advocate. I'll probably get burnt for writing this:

What if we keep using the master/slave terminology precisely because we recognize that slavery is a thing of the past and that we can give new meanings to the words? Words by themselves have no meaning. Each and everyone of us human beings give meaning to words through usage and interpretation.

@kikin81
kikin81 commented May 29, 2014

👍

@jaegerpicker

Thanks for the change! Primary/replica are clearly the better terms.

@lamont-granquist

FWIW, I'd prefer "primary" and "secondary" or "backup". I just find the word "replica" sounds awkward.

@matteius

I agree with practically all of you on this one. You all nailed this really really well!

The true irony for some is that we actually do still live in an age of leaders and followers, yet the irony for others is that the terms quickly changed to primary and replica while 1/3 continued to pick on the English word choices of a native Italian.

Most funny to me is everyone that defends the tradition of the technology terms master and salve appear to be from that I clicked through was from a red state. I personally prefer the Blade runner terms, over a history of slavery—it is really true we should frown about slavery.

Well played!

@karmajunkie

I find the number of people standing up FOR the use of 'slave' ridiculous. Can't help but feel that 20 years from now your kids are going to find these threads appalling.

@dmishe
Contributor
dmishe commented May 29, 2014

@karmajunkie what's wrong with the word slave?

@mkawalec

Wow, django <3

@Stunner
Stunner commented May 29, 2014

The way to change the connotations of a particular word or phrase is not to swap it for something else but to use it within a different context. Master/Slave has been used innocuously for decades in computing and has absolutely nothing to do with 'racist overtones', anyone who thinks so needs to get out of the 19th century. Very disappointed that people wasted their time making such a change.

Watch... next the master branch will be renamed.

@doktornotor

This change is on par with the idiots demanding an apology for using the term "black hole" and suggesting to replace it with "white hole". Brain transplant, anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc1zGRUPztc

@MattWindsor91

@matteius Combo breaker: I've argued in this thread in favour of keeping master/slave, and I'm not even from the US.

(In before someone decides that since I'm from the UK, my opinions concerning slavery are meaningless.)

@ghost
ghost commented May 29, 2014

How long until red-black trees are replaced with Native American Endangered Species Person-Oppressed African or African Descendant Person Trees?

@minexew
minexew commented May 29, 2014

When are we going to abolish the terms whitelist/blacklist? It is very racist and implies that black is somehow worse.

:^)

@joneslee85

Also we should abolish 'left/right'. It's discriminating against left-handed ppl. Why 'righteous' == correctness?

@jakubfi
jakubfi commented May 29, 2014

This whole thing, together with "good change"-style comments is like an IT version of "likes" for helping children in underdeveloped countries... And it makes me really sad - I always thought we're those focused on doing actual things, not dicking around. Silly me.

@krainboltgreene

@jakubfi Unsurprisingly I can do both. I do both.

@richaagarwal

Thanks, django!

I generally think it's useful to avoid language that can trigger strong emotional responses beyond its literal meaning in the context provided, if the goal is to not produce a strong emotional response. Luckily, we often have many words to choose from when making such choices! This does involve knowing your audience, which can sometimes be tricky if you only interact with certain crowds. There are also books you can read if you're scared of asking someone!

@MattWindsor91

Slippery slopes aside, this change sets a bad precedent for ‘solving’ previous injustices by making any reference to them, no matter how contrived, taboo and verboten. We don't pretend injustices didn't happen, we tackle them head on. Slavery* is wrong, and we do need to fight against it. But a web framework is the wrong battleground and political correctness the wrong weapon.

*Actual slavery where the slave is entirely unwilling, not BDSM roleplays etc.

@dunric
dunric commented May 29, 2014

I can't believe this request was merged 👎 I find offensive ignorant people without understanding of context and meaning of synonyms having influence to break things which are completely innocent by themselves. Pure nonsense and false correctness.

@draganHR

Master should be called Aladeen, and Slave should be called Aladeen

@Meira
Meira commented May 29, 2014

I find it particularly notable that the vast majority of the pro-"primary/replica" arguments are subjective and general, while most of the pro-"master/slave" arguments are more objective, practical, include coherent reasoning, and are more grown-up.
Is one side loaded with guilt and fear, while the other side stays logical and practical?

Compare:
"This is a very positive change" (personal opinion), "I was always baffled by this terminology" (also personal opinion), "We should use more inclusive language" (very general, implies that the current language is exclusive, and that is a different topic on its own), "Groups of people can be uncomfortable with this terminology" (a suggestion, not a fact)
versus
"Clear and common terminology is better than newly invented and uncommon" (fact), "The words themselves are not good or bad" (fact), "Using new terminology makes the docs less useful for newbies as well as makes experienced users wonder if they understood it correctly" (easily proven, try google search of "master/slave" - tons of tutorials; not the same for the new pair), "Assuming that slavery is a racist idea is Ameri-centric and racist itself" (history knows too many white slaves, black slave owners to assume it is racist), "Replacing the words will not change history or reality" (hopefully, an obvious fact).

Conclusions are up to the reader.

Personal note:
My posts don't seem to make it through the moderation on google group (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/django-developers/Y_Tq7w4PAeI).
Apparently, my feedback is no longer appreciated by django core devs, so they chose to not hear me (note django's Code of Conduct: "When we disagree, try to understand why." Seems like this code works in only one direction)

@lu-zero
lu-zero commented May 29, 2014

django might focus on getting more usable and less icky (uwsgi headaches to name one, non-pythonic etc...) @Meira you might consider different python frameworks that fits better python.

@tokibito

The correct terms are master and slave. Use of wrong term is not pythonic.

@Meira
Meira commented May 29, 2014

@lu-zero Actually, this does make me doubt the adequacy of the course Django is taking! Seemingly small issue, but the treatment I personally received made me wonder if this is indeed the community I want to be a part of.

@PAEz
PAEz commented May 29, 2014

@Meira Beautifully stated.

@lu-zero
lu-zero commented May 29, 2014

@meira I'm currently making a replacement of the only django application
I'm using (patchwork) in flask, if you want to help you are welcome :)

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 2:37 PM, PAEz notifications@github.com wrote:

@Meira https://github.com/Meira Beautifully stated.


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/django/django/pull/2692#issuecomment-44526918
.

@vexorian

"I find it particularly notable that the vast majority of the pro-"primary/replica" arguments are subjective and general, while most of the pro-"master/slave" arguments are more objective, practical, include coherent reasoning, and are more grown-up."

Almost as if you had confirmation bias or something.

@lutoma
lutoma commented May 29, 2014

Thanks @fcurella and @alex! Ignore the haters <3

@davidcelis

I find it particularly notable that the vast majority of the pro-"primary/replica" arguments are subjective and general, while most of the pro-"master/slave" arguments are more objective, practical, include coherent reasoning, and are more grown-up.

@Meira: I found it notable that the vast majority of the pro-"master/slave" arguments are just statements of appeal to tradition. There are a handful that claim it is more descriptive terminology, but I haven't personally seen a good reason for why primary/replica is not also descriptive.

I also found it notable that the vast majority of rage being expressed is on the part of people against the change. @andr0s' comment right above me is a bit too convenient, but just look through half of the other comments on this thread.

EDIT: The comment I mentioned got deleted by the author or a contributor, but it said (paraphrased): "Master is offensive to feminists, change it to 'mistress' d1ckheads!"

@lemontooth

Assuming that slavery is a racist idea is Ameri-centric and racist itself (history knows too many white slaves, black slave owners to assume it is racist)

  • Hi there, master/slave is racially charged, might we swap it out?
  • Not for me it isn't!! Black people enslaved white people too! You... racist!!!

scratches head
Yep, prime example of an objective, practical, coherently reasoned, grown up argument you got there.

@ghost
ghost commented May 29, 2014

@krainboltgreene I bet you i will. $100.000. Terribly written framework anyways.

@dalu
dalu commented May 29, 2014

The Django masters are also deleting comments that they don't like.
The Djangoists are the real slavers

@mowings
mowings commented May 29, 2014

The most interesting thing about this PR is the sheer amount of furor generated. Sure, the changes to the docs basically solve a non-existent problem. At the same time, the new terms aren't exactly confusing either. While I'd prefer master || primary -> replica || slave || secondary, I don't recall anybody getting this excited over Zookeepers followers and leaders. [Edit: missed the change to primary/replica]

Maybe it's generational -- y'all are all just so ... verbal.

@jm3
jm3 commented May 29, 2014

👍

@vnaylon
vnaylon commented May 29, 2014

Great change. The argument that “it’s been that [wrong/offensive] way forever” is not sufficient.

@jberkus
jberkus commented May 29, 2014

FWIW, the PostgreSQL project has always used the terms "master" and "standby" to refer to a single-master system, throughout our documentation. For that matter, other DBMSes with single-master replication use the terms "Primary/Replica" and "Primary/Secondary" -- more than use the terms "Master/Slave", which are used more frequently to refer to antique HDD configurations under IDE. So the assertion that the "industry standard" is "Master/Slave" is demonstrably false.

@ghost
ghost commented May 29, 2014

I disagree with this because, you know, when master tells slave to do something he ought to do it, no objections. While the terms leader/followers are more politically correct, they do not serve as effectively as master/slave.

@lysenko
lysenko commented May 29, 2014

Github must ban the government of Mauritania.
http://www.npr.org/programs/specials/racism/010828.mauritania.html
Cite:

The government goes to great lengths to deny the problem. It has banned the word "slave" from use by the media, and foreign journalists risk arrest and deportation for investigating the issue.

@davidcelis

While the terms leader/followers are more politically correct, they do not serve as effectively as master/slave.

@mannol1 Irrelevant. The terms being used are primary/replica. Please read the entire discussion before contributing.

@zerkms
zerkms commented May 29, 2014

@davidcelis to be honest - replica term (from my perspective) means that something is identical to something else.

Whereas the slave server doesn't have to be so. It's frequent the slave server only holds part of the master server data.

Finalizing: the slave term expresses a role, whereas the replica term expresses the data attribute/quality.

IE: slave server in mysql replication schema may hold NO DATA at all. I wouldn't call it replica in this case, just because it's not.

@d1ffuz0r

@mannol1 >While the terms leader/followers are more politically correct
Absolutely incorrect for Europe. Such double standards

@karlht
karlht commented May 29, 2014

Thank you to the Django developers -- leader/follower reads with much less baggage attached for me.

@eliziario

I really don't care. Call it sun/earth, smurgasbordnic/flatuvalicxlkt, remove the feature, delete the documentation. I don't care, but please, just stop. All conceivable POVs have already been exposed ad nauseam.

@ghost
ghost commented May 29, 2014

If only this sort of interest formed around more meaningful issues. Development should be free from political and social obligations and as such this is not much more than an end-user confusing step. On the other hand why not, if it pleases someone - it's just syntax.

@andr0s
andr0s commented May 30, 2014

Do you guys know why this silly commit got so many negative comments? I
will tell you why.

Because people tired of propaganda. Politicians tell us what we should and
should not do, how we should think about some things and should not. They
promote craziest fanatics on media which claim that, say, "men" sounds
discriminative and should be banned. If you guys are white Americans
(French\Spanish\whoever) then why the f_ck you should be responsible for
what your grand-grand-grand-parents did? Even worse - if your parents moved
to the US after the slavery had been destroyed then why the f_ck you should
feel any kind of blame? You have all just been brainwashed. You are judged
for the crime you did not commit. And the worst thing is that you agreed
with that.

And it all turns into such a stupid thing as this commit.

Do you know who are real slaves now? You. Those who say 'okaaay' when some
sly people tell you what you should think and do.

Don't be sissy, fight for your freedom!

2014-05-30 7:48 GMT+07:00 Luke Carbis notifications@github.com:

Should I make a PR for this?
https://github.com/lukecarbis/django/compare/patch-1

Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#2692 (comment).

@isotopp
isotopp commented May 30, 2014

I think we need to reform Python and its use of WHITEspace. This is all wrong.

@Dundee
Dundee commented May 30, 2014

I think you should rename Django to something less offensive, because it can reffer to movie "Django Unchained" which contains slaves and violence!

You should take example from http://www.vislab.uq.edu.au/nb/jokes/computers/pc_unix.html and take this seriously.

@MattWindsor91

I don't see how preferring the original terms is fallacious. In terms of documentation, it is genuinely confusing for documentation users to use terminology different from that which they're used to.

One could argue that some people here have been using the appeal to novelty =p

@haasip-satang

Don't you think this also reads a lil funny then: "Let's remove the terminology master and slave and merge our changes into django:M A S T E R" ;) Maybe you should change the branch name too (or is that ok because there are no slave branches ;-P ? )

@canweriotnow

Please. It is a valuable contribution.
On May 29, 2014 8:48 PM, "Luke Carbis" notifications@github.com wrote:

Should I make a PR for this?
https://github.com/lukecarbis/django/compare/patch-1


Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#2692 (comment).

@lemontooth

@CaptainHayashi

In terms of documentation, it is genuinely confusing for documentation users to use terminology different from that which they're used to.

Oh come on. How is that going to confuse anyone? People that dense won't make it through the tutorial anyway, let alone using multiple databases. If anything, the change makes the documentation more descriptive. And for "no one will be able to discover this", google "django master slave" and look at the first hit. Just the snippet provides you with enough information. Also this.

@zerkms

to be honest - replica term (from my perspective) means that something is identical to something else.

And that is what it describes, literally, in the context of this change (not accounting for lag/sync problems).

@haasip-satang

"Let's remove the terminology master and slave and merge our changes into django:M A S T E R" ;) Maybe you should change the branch name too (or is that ok because there are no slave branches

How original. But yes, you are correct, this was about the compound "master-slave" only.

@GrueMaster

Oddly, the term is used in a lot of industries to describe a controller/dummy relationship. The railroad industry has used them for as long as they used multiple locomotives to move cargo.

If we are going to be eliminating the term Master, what will replace the title of the college degree beyond Bachelor, but before Doctorate? How about the title of a higher ranked chess player or the head of a college?

How about the phrase "he's a slave to his work" often meaning that he lets his work come before his personal life? What about remote control systems? Will we be renaming these communication links too?

And lets not forget the religious implications. People that are devout are considered slaved to their master (God).

Interesting responses on stackoverflow.com regarding this topic. One poster suggests using "pimp/ho".

This entire topic is rubbish, and I find it offensive.

@canweriotnow

@GrueMaster

This entire topic is rubbish, and I find it offensive.

👍

@gngeal
gngeal commented May 30, 2014

It is incredibly US-centric to assume that "master/slave" are "racially charged terms". There have been many societies where slaves and freemen were not separated along racial or ethnic lines, for example, the Roman Empire. Witness the cultural imperialism face of the PC movement at its finest!

@lemontooth

@GrueMaster:

If we are going to be eliminating the term Master
[yadda yadda about how it is impossible to nuke "master" from the english language]

Fine, but this PR wasn't about any of that. It was very specifically about replacing "master/slave" with "primary/secondary" in the Django documentation on Multiple Databases, terms that are more descriptive and widely used. "Master" is still used in other contexts than database replication in the documentation. Nobody expressed a desire to change the term for higher ranked chess players.

Interesting responses on stackoverflow.com regarding this topic. One poster suggests using "pimp/ho".
This entire topic is rubbish, and I find it offensive.

Yes, very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Much constructive.

@gngeal

Witness the cultural imperialism face of the PC movement at its finest!

Now that is some kind of fresh madness.

@tamamoe
tamamoe commented May 31, 2014

What's going on here?

@Frogging101

Ugh, this is bullshit. Why should anyone give a damn about the terminology? Keep your feels out of computing.

@Frogging101

Also, when did the social justice army invade GitHub? Nowhere is safe anymore.

@minexew
minexew commented May 31, 2014

@Frogging101 Running around the Internet spouting incoherent subjective arguments to make oneself feel beneficial to the society is easier than writing good code.
As if you forgot to realize how stupid the average person is and that half of the population is by definition dumber than that. GitHub has no access barriers, making it very susceptible to attacks from SJW and their sheep. Try the same on LKML and you'll get blown out in minutes.

@wlipa
wlipa commented May 31, 2014

The true master here is a kind of linguistic puritanism to which, unfortunately, many are slavishly devoted.

@conatus
conatus commented Jun 1, 2014

👍

@distransient

Forget all the openly bigoted opinions ITT; this is a great PR!

@Tak
Tak commented Jun 2, 2014

👍

@6079-Smith-W

"master/slave" is ungood crimethinkful oldspeak. plusgood rectify unword.
Is Minitrue doubleplusgoodwork truthwise. chocorat anyone?

@Carreau Carreau referenced this pull request in ipython-contrib/jupyter_contrib_nbextensions Jun 9, 2014
Merged

Add license terms file #76

@celber
celber commented Jun 9, 2014

Hi, i feel personally offended by racist name of this repo while it associates with tragic story of one american slave. I demand changing its name to "My Web Pony".

@jacobian jacobian locked and limited conversation to collaborators Jun 9, 2014
@alex alex locked and limited conversation to collaborators Jun 9, 2014
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