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Development Meeting (31 Mar, 2018)

This is the log of Weekly General Development Meeting. It happens every Saturday 4pm UTC in the #development Discord channel.

ellaismer - Today at 11:59 AM
!rsvp ping
RSVPBotBOT - Today at 11:59 AM
@Nulligun @Towd @ellaismer @!ʍᴉʞ @psdev @limax @0xcaffe @DeSVaR
ellaismer - Today at 12:00 PM
@everyone  Our dev meeting for this week starts now. If you have anything you would like to discuss, it's time to raise your voice!
limax - Today at 12:02 PM
For the beginning since is the first time when we have a joined meeting with our telegram side of the community I want to say welcome and also to remind everybody that this will be momderated according to our CoC
https://github.com/ellaism/meta/blob/master/conduct.md
GitHub
ellaism/meta
meta - Ellaism Project Management
and now we can start :smile:
ok, i'll start
EllagramBOT - Today at 12:04 PM
JayGatsbys: Price before meeting...(edited)
limax - Today at 12:05 PM
ok, I understand, you can go again
EllagramBOT - Today at 12:05 PM
JayGatsbys: Haha
limax - Today at 12:05 PM
first as most of you know we are working closer to have Ella listed on ldvbank next week
this is important in my opinion because we will have many pairs as an options vor our members/investors
EllagramBOT - Today at 12:06 PM
JayGatsbys: Yes, nice that
limax - Today at 12:06 PM
including fiat
and also more pairs in the future
Bert - Today at 12:07 PM
Hey all, I've been doing my research, speaking to some community members, did some mining, etc. May be you can help me with a question I have. I'm wondering what the value of ellaism will be in the real world. Which application will separate it from other blockchains, besides technical specifications? Or, viewed from another angle, why would there be demand for the ELLA coin?
EllagramBOT - Today at 12:08 PM
JayGatsbys: On a more serious note, how can we have Bert without Ernie?
limax - Today at 12:09 PM
@Bert in my opinion you can look at Ella coin as an fairly distributed Ethereum like coin
Bert - Today at 12:09 PM
Hehe, my better half is putting the kids to bed... ow wait... that's weird(edited)
limax - Today at 12:10 PM
if you look at the principles and comparison you'll see that are fundamental differences
psdev - Today at 12:11 PM
I see BTC Relay on the roadmap with "other ..atomic swap and cross-chain operations" as a sub-bullet.  I likely dont understand the full value of BTC integration.  My feeling is that bridging to other eth-like chains would be more valuable than bridging to BTC
ellaismer - Today at 12:11 PM
Okay. Just forgot to put my agenda. I think there're one things we need to discuss today, about Community Fund bootstrap.
@psdev Yeah I agree ETH integration would also be valuable.
Bert - Today at 12:13 PM
@limax So if I understand correctly, you see Ellaism purely as an alternative to Ethereum as a smart contracts platform? So Ellaism being successful means people building apps on it?
ellaismer - Today at 12:14 PM
And @Moderators please note that the moderation features are done:

1. To warn users, .moderation warn @user <reason>. This will set a log in the blockchain.
2. To watercool a user, .moderation watercool @user <reason>. This will add the Watercooling role to the user for 10 minutes, allowing him/her to post only in #watercooler channel.
3. To kick/ban a user, .moderation kick @user <reason> and .moderation ban @user <reason>. Please use (1) (2) for most situations and only use this as the last resort.(edited)
limax - Today at 12:15 PM
@Bert this one point to start from, yes it is an alternative and more fair defined
also because of the way this community is build the development will be far for being centralised
ellaismer - Today at 12:16 PM
@Bert One important part for me is no dev fee no premine. Ellaism is the only coin within the Ethereum family.
limax - Today at 12:18 PM
I discussed in the last week with investors seeking to start developing on Ella just because of this
no foundation in controll of the development backed by big amount of premined coins
EllagramBOT - Today at 12:19 PM
JayGatsbys (in reply to @limax): Yes and other peoples upset and leaving that other coin Ellagem bcuz they found out about the premine. Ellaism better for many :thumbsup:(edited)
limax - Today at 12:19 PM
also any developers can join and contribute to Ella development without any central authority
we are still in infancy and we know that we have alot to improve in order to get and stay on the right way
EllagramBOT - Today at 12:21 PM
fsi56 (in reply to @limax): Im curious how to be a blockchain engineer? Any programming language advised?
Towd - Today at 12:21 PM
In regards to the community funds:
“You guys come up with how to move the funds back to the original donators.” is the response regarding the return of Ella’s community funds.
I’m proposing if the funds are returned to the control of members of the Ellaism community, we offer a reimbursement to anyone who has departed and would like a refund.  I don’t think donations should be returned on principle, but I think it is a goodwill gesture to smooth over some of the frayed relations.  But I’m open to any suggestions.
EllagramBOT - Today at 12:22 PM
JayGatsbys (in reply to @ellaismer): @ellaismer you made me get into Ellaism. Please never leave the project :sweat_smile: You carry the Ethereum name with you.(edited)
Towd - Today at 12:24 PM
I'm getting some private messaging with some of their members this morning again.  I think that if we don't offer this up, we may as well write off the community fund.  Which is also fine with me.  I'm pretty tired of the subject at this point and debating with them.  However if we write off the community fund, we need to have all mining pools stop any mining to that wallet.
ellaismer - Today at 12:25 PM
Those two are both viable solutions, IMHO. If we can return the fund, that would indeed be better. Have we proposed how to do it?
Anyway, I think what we really need to do now is to start the new Community Fund wallet. And we need to know who are the signers.
Towd - Today at 12:26 PM
In regards to a new wallet, I have this list of proposed groups to act as signees:
Groups Represented:
Core Dev / Multi-Geth
Comfund-bootstrap
Code of Conduct
Website Development
Exchange Listings
International / Non-Native English
Miners
Telegram

Alternates:
Ella-Games
EllagramBOT - Today at 12:26 PM
xlimax (in reply to fsi56): i'm learning rust and go
Towd - Today at 12:26 PM
I do not have any individual volunteers.  I can start approaching people for slots.
I'm open to any suggestions regarding the inclusion of a group I may have missed.
ellaismer - Today at 12:27 PM
Yeah that would be great. We actually only need the signer list, as of now. After that, things will be pretty fast.
limax - Today at 12:28 PM
regarding this list is another thing linked
i intend to start next week some work on the website with @CryptoFern
one idea is to have members of working groups on website on the Team section
ellaismer - Today at 12:30 PM
@limax Yeah I think is what we have planned.
EllagramBOT - Today at 12:30 PM
zenrobot (in reply to @limax): Yes, we need a list on web with developers and other team members
limax - Today at 12:31 PM
also in order to have both presentation/opensource versions of the website I think we will start to populate the wiki on the github and cleanup parts of the website
ellaismer - Today at 12:31 PM
Yeah great!
limax - Today at 12:31 PM
this way we can improve the documentation and also mentain a clean presentation version for the website
Towd - Today at 12:31 PM
@ellaismer I figure one signer is plenty.  What I'm trying to do foremost is make sure everyone who signs is fairly isolated from other signers.  The last community fund obviously had a tight group of friends all signing.  So, they almost exclusively made up the party that departed.
limax - Today at 12:31 PM
with links to the wiki
psdev - Today at 12:32 PM
Ella strongly values principals.  Fairness, openness.  How does the potential for future monetary policy adjustment fit in these principals?  Does lowering the miner block reward have the potential for consideration?
limax - Today at 12:33 PM
anyone who want to participate to the website effort please join #website-development
ellaismer - Today at 12:34 PM
@psdev I don't think that would be a good idea. Our monetary policy is designed to balance a) capped total supply and b) long tail emission. (We had a lot more discussions on that here https://github.com/ellaism/meta/issues/9).
Most chains will write the monetary policy to its principles. We did that too.
psdev - Today at 12:36 PM
Similar to considering multisig signers, it may be worth thinking about PoA network node operators
PoA testnet has one signer
sorry, don't mean to derail
ellaismer - Today at 12:38 PM
@psdev Yeah definitely. We need more PoA testnet signers. However I don't yet have any concrete ideas of how we can proceed on this. I'm open to ideas.
limax - Today at 12:39 PM
i have another thing
i'm in discussions with developers that will build a new application for multi wallets
with exchange integrated
in the wallet
and Ella will be integrated there
EllagramBOT - Today at 12:41 PM
zenrobot: Sounds like a great idea
limax - Today at 12:42 PM
i'll work closer with them and we will provide feedback for this
in order to get the best user experience possible
Towd - Today at 12:42 PM
I love it!
limax - Today at 12:43 PM
also they intend to launch their own token for this on Ella
no premine
no airdrop
we need to provide them more technical info on this and this is where @ellaismer will have a lot to do :smiley:
ellaismer - Today at 12:44 PM
@limax Yeah please just let me know how I can help. :smiley:
limax - Today at 12:45 PM
this just started
they are open to new ideas and i hope this can be good for both sides
ellaismer - Today at 12:47 PM
Cool.
Towd - Today at 12:47 PM
I have some exchange stuff to cover next.
limax - Today at 12:47 PM
thank you @Towd
Towd - Today at 12:47 PM
It looks like we have a new listing with LDV Bank which is great!
I’m thinking if we can get listed on one more exchange, large to small size that will give people plenty of options regarding trading the coin.  This process started because of complaints regarding Cryptopia due to slow transfers and Stocks.Exchange due to it’s small size and low volume.
Currently, we’re looking at Bittrex and KuCoin for two larger exchanges with free coin listings. I can start the process with them, but  I have a feeling for success, we’re going to need to show an active community and solid trade volume.
Question from me:  Should I go ahead and start the process, or would we like to take a month and build up the community first?
In regards to another small or med sized exchange, I’m open to a couple suggestions right now from any favorites from people here.  I’ll start the process with them immediately.
EllagramBOT - Today at 12:48 PM
JayGatsbys (in reply to @Towd): Tbh i never had problems with Cryptopia
Towd - Today at 12:49 PM
Same here, Jay.  I think we're mostly covered for our market cap at the moment.  But, I'd like to hear from everyone else.  I'm happy to table things for a month or so, if we think we're good with the addition of LDV Bank.
terra-pescado - Today at 12:49 PM
1 day transfer in, 1 day out with cryptopia. Plus low volume
Towd - Today at 12:50 PM
I don't think we have the volume to spread ourselves over 5 or 6 exchanges right now.
zenrobot - Today at 12:51 PM
I think we must build our team and community first , and the go for a bigger exchange. My opinion
terra-pescado - Today at 12:51 PM
But yes, market cap is low. But better exchange could increase market cap
Towd - Today at 12:51 PM
@terra-pescado A large exchange does not magically bring volume.  We need to drive up interest in the coin as well.
limax - Today at 12:51 PM
i agree with @zenrobot
terra-pescado - Today at 12:52 PM
I'm really excited about the ldv listing.
limax - Today at 12:52 PM
we need to improve our awerness program complementary to the website review(edited)
zenrobot - Today at 12:53 PM
Maybe it’s a good thing to put some timing on community works, like 2-3 months for growing/building and then search a bigger exchange since summer?
Towd - Today at 12:53 PM
Then maybe we should hold off on pursuing Bittrex and Kucoin until we grow the community a bit more.  I think we only get one chance at a first impression.  Although, I know I can always reapply if they give us feedback regarding our size.  If you all would prefer, I'll go ahead and apply now, I have all the documents ready.
@zenrobot   From my research, in this regard we should really encourage more of our users to spend a little time on Reddit.  Posting news and commentary.  That site is sited by multiple exchanges as a factor they take into account when considering a listing.
limax - Today at 12:55 PM
@Towd you are right
Towd - Today at 12:55 PM
We can also work on our marketing through April with regards to that contest I mentioned last week.
zenrobot - Today at 12:55 PM
Yes, we all need to put more effort on reddit
limax - Today at 12:56 PM
we need this effort to be coordinated on all media
Towd - Today at 12:56 PM
Encourage people outside our meeting to hop on Reddit once a day and make a reply to some post.  Ellaismer is posting good news, but we have no discussion there.  It's a good natural first place for new investors to visit as well.  So it serves two purposes.
I'm guilty of this as well.
roccinio - Today at 12:57 PM
@Towd just give it a shot.even if they deny you can always return apply. That way you can gain time . Me for example I would love to trade etn for Ella bit it is too much of a hassle. But with kucoin it would be a breeze. How else can you increase volume?
zenrobot - Today at 12:58 PM
Me, as telegram admin will encourage people to comment and share reddit posts. Jay and Ai are very active on TG and sure will help too
Towd - Today at 12:59 PM
Is there any small to med sized exchange someone here would like to suggest here and now?  I'll throw our application papers to them.  Otherwise, with the addition of LDV Bank, I think we can close the exchange listing issue for at least a couple weeks.
@roccinio I'd prefer to hold on the big exchanges for at least a week or two and get our house in order before we apply, unless I'm in the minority.
Towd - Today at 1:00 PM
I do not personally subscribe to the theory that a big exchange listing will bring volume and a price jump.
roccinio - Today at 1:00 PM
You know best! I just wish Ella was on kucoin. But it will happen eventually
Towd - Today at 1:01 PM
I like Kucoin too.  We'll apply there for sure when we're ready.
roccinio - Today at 1:01 PM
Speaking personally I would never go and buy Ella with the current exchange. But maybe I am the minority
Towd - Today at 1:01 PM
Ok, final thing on exchanges:  Some of the larger exchanges like Poloniex specifically, but maybe others want KYC information on all core developers.   I think I know the answer, but I have to ask.  @ellaismer, would you be opposed to submitting personal information if it was kept private by the exchange?  This is just me being thorough and lets me mark some exchanges off my list.
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:03 PM
almuntje (in reply to @zenrobot): Yes, of course
ellaismer - Today at 1:03 PM
@Towd I cannot submit my personal information, that's all.
We don't actually have anything like the "core developers" as they defined. This coin doesn't have premine or dev fee, and that concept does not make much sense. "Ellaism Core" is just a team name.
Towd - Today at 1:04 PM
Got it.  And yes, many of them have applications structured around ICOs and business teams.
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:04 PM
zenrobot (in reply to almuntje): You and @JayGatsbys are doing a super great job
almuntje (in reply to zenrobot): We are keeping the chat clean. Ban all the fud
Towd - Today at 1:04 PM
That's it for me on exchanges for now then.
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:05 PM
almuntje (in reply to zenrobot): I dont have a Reddit account but I can make one and to be active there
JayGatsbys: I think NovaExchange would list Ellaism. Nova is nothing special but just one easy one.(edited)
zenrobot (in reply to almuntje): Our job is to encourage people to comment on Reddit, not only ourselfs(edited)
ellaismer - Today at 1:06 PM
And our Match traffic stats is out https://imgur.com/gallery/5UU3M
Together with our Dev Fund financial report, if anyone's interested in doing a review: https://github.com/ellaism/meta/blob/master/finance/2018-03.md

I'm drafting the monthly community updates, and I would hope we can do a brief review before we close the meeting.
GitHub
ellaism/meta
meta - Ellaism Project Management
Towd - Today at 1:06 PM
NovaExchange  sounds good.  I'll do an application there for us.
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:07 PM
JayGatsbys (in reply to @Towd): I think Novaexchange would list Ellaism. Nova is nothing special but its just an easy one to get a coin listed on. They didnt close down and they wont close down. Novaexchange is not that bad.(edited)
almuntje (in reply to zenrobot): Ok, got it. Reddit will come on my radar :muscle:
maskekar - Today at 1:10 PM
let me know if you guys need localization aka translation
limax - Today at 1:10 PM
this is one good point
especially for the website
and another point for separing presentation side from documentation
it will be easier to get the presentation part translated in many languages
Towd - Today at 1:14 PM
Okay, final subject if we're tabling the bulk of  exchange stuff.  Outside of increased Reddit activity, here my proposed marketing plan for April:
A four week contest that gives away ELLA to participants and winners to raise awareness regarding our project.
Week 1:  Retweet @EllaismProject tweets.  3 random winners chosen  (50 ELLA prize)
Week 2:  Tweet about Ellaism including some hastag.   3 best tweets chosen. (100 ELLA prize.)
Week 3:  Community posts and blogs about what makes ELLA unique and important.  3 best chosen  (100 ELLA prize chosen by community)
Week 4:  Open format contest.  Videos, blogs, tweets, forums, pictures and artwork, etc. about ELLA.  (2winners of 100 ELLA prize,  Grand Prize for 250 ELLA for a top submission-- all voted on by community)(edited)
We could use carbon voting or other means.  I’ve seen some other coins run similar contests and they can do a lot ot create buzz as each week builds on the last.  To participate people will have to register each week to show their participation.  People can’t just randomly post on a forum and expect to win.
ellaismer - Today at 1:17 PM
@Towd My only concern is the budget. The first three weeks is 400 ELLA, and the last week is 2000 ELLA. We only have one fund now -- the Dev Fund, and that's more than 1/6 of the money we have...
Towd - Today at 1:17 PM
We can also adjust prize allocations based on the recovery of our community funds.
That is true, I can lower prizes.  Let me readjust numbers.
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:17 PM
JayGatsbys: @RATTY999 is also a good member here...
Aurocheen - Today at 1:18 PM
Ill gladly fund the first week
ellaismer - Today at 1:18 PM
@Towd I think within 400-500 ELLA in total would be more reasonable.
@Aurocheen Wow great. So we have 100 ELLA already! :smiley:
zenrobot - Today at 1:18 PM
Better adjust prices @Towd
Towd - Today at 1:19 PM
This still means we are burning a little under 2k ELLA.  But, hopefully we'll be getting close to 14k Ella from our old fund.
Aurocheen - Today at 1:19 PM
Oh thought it was pr winner, I can fund first 2 weeks then if its total
Towd - Today at 1:19 PM
It's why I'm chasing it.
zenrobot - Today at 1:19 PM
My today tweet :point_right: https://twitter.com/z3nr0b0t/status/980131616088522753?s=21 :wink:
zenrobot (@z3nr0b0t)
Good work and ideas in today @ellaismcore dev meeting.  Community moving forward, good future is coming. @ellaismproject $ella https://t.co/MsagsNP3zY
Twitter
Aurocheen - Today at 1:21 PM
otherwise I can do 300 Ella for first week if it is 100 pr winner as well
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:21 PM
almuntje (in reply to JayGatsbys): Why is that Jay?
limax - Today at 1:21 PM
we will find a ballance
i'll also contribute
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:22 PM
JayGatsbys: I know him from some other groups. He is good person seems to be active outside Telegram.
limax - Today at 1:22 PM
and i'm sure that will be more to contribute(edited)
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:23 PM
almuntje (in reply to JayGatsbys): He wants to be active for Ellaism?
JayGatsbys (in reply to almuntje): Hope so :cowboy:
Towd - Today at 1:23 PM
How about the prices now?  50 x 3 for first week.   100 x 3 for second.   100 x 3 for third  100 x 2 + 250 for fourth.
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:23 PM
JayGatsbys (in reply to almuntje): Well find out when he reads all this...
Towd - Today at 1:23 PM
Also, I understand how tight funds are, so why don't we hold a week and get the community fund set up and let's see if we get the funds back from Ethergem.
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:24 PM
almuntje (in reply to JayGatsbys): If you know him, it must be something good
Aurocheen - Today at 1:24 PM
Thats a good idea
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:25 PM
JayGatsbys (in reply to almuntje): Smart guy he is(edited)
almuntje (in reply to @Towd): I dont want to get paid for doing some work for Ellaism.
ellaismer - Today at 1:25 PM
And @Towd Week 2 looks like what our Twitter faucet is doing. If there's anything more effective we can also use part of that fund.
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:26 PM
almuntje (in reply to JayGatsbys): Nice
Towd - Today at 1:27 PM
The contest is to get more people from the community and not in leadership roles active in raising ELLA awareness.  they will need to register for the contest each week to participate, so people who just tweet will not randomly win prizes.
Yes, we can shorten it, and remove week two.  Or I'll change the format to something else.
ellaismer - Today at 1:28 PM
@Towd I mean maybe we can use part of our Twitter faucet fund for Week 2. Didn't mean to remove it...
Towd - Today at 1:28 PM
So, I'll hold off on more details for one more week while we try to secure funds.  If we don't secure funds, we can do a donations drive, and budget the contest around the amount we raise.
ellaismer - Today at 1:29 PM
@Towd Dev Fund can also sponsor some, as long as we don't burn money too fast.... Like 400-500 ELLA or something.
Towd - Today at 1:29 PM
Maybe week two, we do a "mega-faucet" to advertise the faucet and increase it's rewards for a week.  No winners just increase payout on the faucet.
Yeah, I don't want to burn through our coffers, we've worked hard to raise them.  I'm just trying to kick things in gear and get people talking.
ellaismer - Today at 1:31 PM
Another thing is if we do that, we may want to do it with manual review instead of using the @TwitterFaucet bot. This auto bot does not currently generate us many quality content.
Towd - Today at 1:32 PM
Yeah.  Posts need to be manually approved for quality in any part of the contest.
You guys send me suggestions this week and we'll re-open next week after we see what funds we secure.
That is it from me.(edited)
ellaismer - Today at 1:33 PM
Okay cool!
If we can wait a few minutes, I'm going to post our monthly community update here for us to do a brief review.
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:34 PM
almuntje: Can we close with a good word about why to buy Ellaism for the people who are open to invest in Ellaism?
JayGatsbys (in reply to almuntje): Haha i have faith(edited)
Towd - Today at 1:36 PM
Ellaism is an Ethereum clone using a blend of ETC and ETH code, and intends to use exclusively “proof of work” to secure the blockchain.  It benefits from a zero pre-mine and has no mandatory developer fees with all support and development donated freely by the community.  We believe this makes our coin one of the most honest pure Ethereum projects, and something that is uniquely interesting as a platform for serious developers, educators, and enthusiasts.
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:37 PM
almuntje (in reply to @Towd): :wink:
Towd - Today at 1:37 PM
LOL
limax - Today at 1:37 PM
we have even more than that
ellaismer - Today at 1:38 PM
@Towd I think that's a particularly good one! Where did you get this? I think it may be a good idea to put this on our website. :smiley:
Towd - Today at 1:38 PM
That's the opening paragraph from my exchange pitch document.  And thank you!!!  :smile:
Everyone is free to cut and paste that wherever they like.
EllagramBOT - Today at 1:40 PM
almuntje (in reply to @Towd): On Reddit
ellaismer - Today at 1:40 PM
And here's a draft monthly community update: https://gist.github.com/ellaismer/491365f03ff332c701063e2e1043bac7
Please take a look and let me know if I missed something. :smiley:
Gist
Monthly Community Update (March 2018)
Monthly Community Update (March 2018)
limax - Today at 1:43 PM
are the links on logs working?
ellaismer - Today at 1:43 PM
Fixed. Sorry!
Towd - Today at 1:46 PM
That was a fun meeting thanks everyone and post in the #comfund-bootstrap if you would like to offer to act as a signatory for one of ELLA's interest groups on the community fund wallet!
Details in #comfund-bootstrap
limax - Today at 1:47 PM
Same here with anyone who want to help with the #website-development
ellaismer - Today at 1:48 PM
Cool. If nothing else, let's close this meeting! @here(edited)
!rsvp set-date 7 April
RSVPBotBOT - Today at 1:48 PM
RSVP date set to 7 April.