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Development Meeting (28 April, 2018)

This is the log of Weekly General Development Meeting. It happens every Saturday 4pm UTC in the #development Discord channel.

ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:02 PM
@here Dev meeting this week starts now. Here's the agenda I currently have:

- Community Fund short-term goals and funding strategies.
- Testnet signers addition.

If you have anything, please feel free to add it to the list. And for next weeks meeting, remember that you can post items in advance at
Ellaism Community Weekly Meeting 11 Agenda · Issue #28 · ellaism...
Meeting time: Saturday 05/05/2018, at 16:00 UTC
Meeting location: Discord server

To be added. Please provide comments to add or correct agenda topics.
limax - Yesterday at 12:06 PM
The ComFund is now final, we can start sendind funds and preparing the marketing plans?
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:07 PM
Yeah I think it would be a good time for us to figure out some short-term goals, and discuss how do we do the funding. If needed, we can always use some Dev Fund balance, given that people agree.
limax - Yesterday at 12:09 PM
That's good and also we can send the funds from @terra-pescado and from the account I have for this
Towd - Yesterday at 12:10 PM
So, I have a proposal for a 4 week campaign drive, I can share here.  It's over 4 weeks.  I think we should run them to start and end around the time of the dev meetings.
If we launch next week, then this week, is our community fund donation drive.
I have some basic prizes listed in my proposal based on the funds we have, but if we get more, we can increase the prizes, or possibly extend the marketing drive.  Will post updated proposal below.
Ellaism Marketing Drive:
I’m proposing that winners to be chosen in a variety of ways, to exercise our communities various ways of voting.  I’m thinking of carbon voting, community fund signee voting (like a committee), Discord polling, and Twitter polls.   I think it is worthwhile to also sprinkle in some random winners just for fun.

Prizes will include bumper stickers and later t-shirts from our swag store.  For the final week, I suggest we blow out remaining funds in the community wallet for some ELLA prize awards as well.

People who wish to participate will need to register in some fashion for each week’s contest.  I think we could possibly vary this a bit, by possibly requiring  a Twitter handle for weeks that require Tweets, register a Discord, Medium, or Reddit ID for blog weeks.

Prizes will be 

Week 1:
Retweet @Ellaismproject (or another official twitter) a posts.
Prizes:  10 (5 random / 5 selected)  Winners will receive an Ellaism bumper sticker from swag store.

Week 2:
Post a tweet and explain why you like the Ellaism project.  Include hashtags #Ellaism and $ELLA in your tweet.
Prizes: 10 (5 random / 5 selected) Winners will receive an Ellaism bumper sticker from swag store.

Week 3:
Create a post about Ellaism on Facebook/Bitcointalk/Reddit/Medium etc., and share it on Twitter.  Include #Ellaism and #EllaismContest in your tweet.
Prizes: 5 random winners will receive bumper stickers.  5 winners receive Ellaism t-shirts from swag store.

Week 4:
Open ended entries.  Create something original the represents your support for the Ellaism project.  This can be videos, blogs, podcasts, artwork, just about anything.  Just have fun.  Share a link to your work on Twitter.  Include #Ellaism and #EllaismContest in your tweet.
Prizes: 5 random winners will receive bumper stickers.  5 winners receive Ellaism t-shirts from swag store.  Top 3 entries voted on by community will receive cash prizes
The idea is to build each week, first by building follwers for our official twitter. Then to grow the indivdual participation over the following weeks.  There's a lot of ways we can change it up to take advantage of all our community tools.
By using the swag store for prizes, it stays very economical.
I don't have prices yet on the t-shirts, but Terra is working on that, and we can adjust prizes based on budget.
The bumper stickers should fit into our current budget even if we raise no additional funds.
I'll pin this to the #marketing channel, and we can discuss more there if everyone is satisfied.
So this wee, we should just get the community aware that we're running a funding drive with all funds to be used for the campaign will finish fleshing out in marketing.  And we'll see how much we can pull together.
limax - Yesterday at 12:20 PM
I think that on the website we should move the "Donate" link close to the "Follow community" buttons
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:20 PM
Sounds like a good idea. I'll get this done tomorrow.
Towd - Yesterday at 12:20 PM
That is it form me.  I can take further discussion off to the #marketing channel.
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:21 PM
And if no objections, @Towd I want to give you @ellaismproject Twitter handle access in case you need to do some marketing.
Towd - Yesterday at 12:22 PM
Sure, I can share it with you if you like as well.
I'll whip up some basic artwork for the funding drive this week.
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:22 PM
Should work now. Check your email, or just go to
TweetDeck is your personal browser for staying in touch with what’s happening now.
Towd - Yesterday at 12:23 PM
Okay, thanks.  :smile:
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:24 PM
Sorry for being late guys but I'm here now! Is the meeting over?
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:24 PM
No it's more like just started. :smiley: But seems we don't have as many people this week as before.
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:25 PM
Oh. So, I had something in mind. Now that the com fund is almost done, shouldn't we plan out the roadmap kind of thing for the coin?
I mean we kind of know the market that we will be aiming for but if we move towards it that would be better rather than waiting.
Towd - Yesterday at 12:26 PM
Probably people tired of hearing about community fund for weeks.  :stuck_out_tongue:   Now we can get past this boring stuff, and back to discussing the project.  :smile:
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:26 PM
I mean having a things structured of how we will be moving forward should help the coin
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:28 PM
Besides I would always want to hear about additional stuff that we should pay attention to, and I'm always happy to change priority based on the community's need, given that our manpower is limited.
2018 Roadmap
Ellaism Core’s Roadmap in 2018. A stable Ethereum network without pre-mine or dev fees.
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:30 PM
Yes, agreed about the manpower. However, I believe we recently got some devs interested in ella since I can see that role given out
EllagramBOT - Yesterday at 12:30 PM
JayGatsbys: :cowboy:
terra-pescado - Yesterday at 12:30 PM
Hey all, I'm down with the above plan. I'll start on shirt next payday. 1 week from now
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:30 PM
However, what I want to say is, if we are aiming for Tokens to move to ella, we should have something which betters EOS/ETC when ETH goes to POS
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:30 PM
Something I'm thinking about is WebAssembly. It might be cool to do a hard fork to enable WASM scripting. That'll make us one of the only PoW WASM blockchain. (EOS is PoA/PoS, and the other one is Kovan PoA testnet.)

But as always, hard fork is a hard topic and needs some careful planning.
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:31 PM
That sounds like a good plan. EOS is attracting a lot of people because of that
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:32 PM
The fact is that you can already write WASM contracts nowadays easily (and much more securely). It's just that there's not much marketing yet so not a lot of developers are working on that.
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:33 PM
I know EOS does it in C++
But if we can add other languages too which are common then it would be a solid thing in ELLA
Writing contracts in solidity is challenging especially for the beginners
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:33 PM
We nearly don't need anything from Parity client -- it has WASM support. But it may be a lot of work on multi-geth, or we need to drop support for one, if manpower is really limited.

And as always, the problem is always conducting the hard fork.
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:33 PM
Also WebAssembly can increase the No. of Txns/sec
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:34 PM
@sc0rp1on Yeah, C++/Rust/etc all compiles to WASM.
@sc0rp1on It might still be in early stage to talk about no. of txns/sec (at least on Ethereum it requires a custom interpreter, which is not as well optimized as the other implementation), but for sure writing contracts in C++/Rust/etc is already attractive.
Still, I would hope that we can have a good community management structure before we conduct a hard fork. Otherwise it might be risky.
EllagramBOT - Yesterday at 12:37 PM
JayGatsbys (in reply to @ellaismer): :heart_eyes:
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:37 PM
EOS can process 50K txn/sec on WebAssembly.
I would say if we try that we should aim around it too, reason being if we want to be attractive, no of  txns has an effect on it. 
Yeah, we are at a very early stage but at the end if we want to be a global computer it is something that should be considered from the beginning.
About the HF, I guess Ella has  superb community for support and we should take enough time to make everyone aware and test everything. It's risky but together it can be done flawlessly
limax - Yesterday at 12:38 PM
I think that we can place the proposal in the roadmap
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:38 PM
Another thing about the roadmap I wanted to state is that we should hace some timelines
limax - Yesterday at 12:39 PM
This way we can have more discussions
And time to prepare
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:39 PM
Right now, it's just that we have the things we will like to do but having some even tentative timelines help! Like quaterly
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:40 PM
@sc0rp1on It may not be at that scope for us, I think. We're PoW, which means we trade some efficiency with decentralization.
The resource management implementation is also vastly different in Parity Kovan vs. EOS.(edited)
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:41 PM
Got it. But can we have something like RDN (for ETH) and LN(for bitcoin) as a future thing that can be considered?
EllagramBOT - Yesterday at 12:41 PM
JayGatsbys: nice
terra-pescado - Yesterday at 12:42 PM
This will also solve any asic worries people may have correct?
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:43 PM
@terra-pescado No ASIC is a totally different thing. WebAssembly is about transaction execution, and ASIC is about PoW. It needs to be dealt with separately.
Towd - Yesterday at 12:46 PM
Well, it does sound like a sexy idea.  I think having unique features helps separte us.  Beyond the zero pre-mine, the multi-geth client helps.  Something like this, could get us a lot of good attention.  Much better than being another masternodes project.  :smile:
terra-pescado - Yesterday at 12:46 PM
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:46 PM
@sc0rp1on Yes absolutely. We can have bridged PoA sidechain right now, which increases performance to a comparative level already. The only thing I haven't figured out is about coin distribution if I launch a sidechain -- nothing can be as fair as PoW, and coin distribution might be a problem if a PoA chain bridged to mainnet is launched by Core. But if a thrid-party launches one, I think that wouldn't be a problem.(edited)
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:47 PM
Coin distribution as in the rewards after the launch of the chain?
terra-pescado - Yesterday at 12:48 PM
Yeah I'm against MN. Want Ella to be unique. One of a kind, a diamond in the sea of coal if you will. Long term growth is more stable than "let's moon now!!"
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:52 PM
@sc0rp1on So in PoA there's no concept of mining, but for a PoA Ethereum chain, we still need some ways to pay gas fees. This makes it problematic because blocks are always produced by a set of  "authorities". (So here we trade centralization with efficiency, and it's as fast as PoS, for most cases, faster.)

So if the rewards are set to zero, then we need to allow zero-fee transactions, and we're open to network attacks. If otherwise, then block fees are always collected by "authorities" who will handle distributing it. In that case, Core cannot be the one holding the private key. However, we can have some special purpose PoA sidechains launched by third parties, and I think there'll be no problem for that.
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 12:54 PM
I think we can still put the PoA sidechain consideration and have it discussed since it seems like it needs a lot of discussion and we dont need to implement right away.
About WebAssembly we can set it for sooner
Also, sorry for being out of touch but did we accomplish the cross chain operations?
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:55 PM
@sc0rp1on No, not yet. I haven't done much regarding BTC relay, but it's on my list.
limax - Yesterday at 12:56 PM
The WASM proposal can be coupled with the marketing campaign and we can gain more donations and interested developers maybe
Towd - Yesterday at 12:57 PM
@ellaismer I think I remember waaay back, that you mentioned there may be some security issues with implementing the BTC relay and you would need to put it on hold for a while.  Is that still an outsanding issue, or am I missremembering?(edited)
I'd say if we decide to go with the WASM proposal, we should not market it until after the hard fork.  Then market heavily once it's launched.  No reason to over promise on something we're still considering, IMHO.
ellaismer - Yesterday at 12:59 PM
Yeah I agree. We don't market unfinished projects.
ellaismer - Yesterday at 1:00 PM
@Towd There's some security issues with current dapps working on BTC relay. That's what needs works.
Towd - Yesterday at 1:00 PM
@limax We could consider a second funding drive for a second WASM specific marketing campaign when we're closer to launch.  (If we decide to go that route.)
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 1:01 PM
So let's put these things to priority
2. BTC relay and Atomic swaps
3. PoA sidechain consideration
Others can list the priorities too and we can put them in a roadmap and have a tentative timeline for them. Nothing binding but a realistic and achievable timeline
ellaismer - Yesterday at 1:02 PM
And regarding WASM, if we carry it out, I would need a lot of help in community management.
Towd - Yesterday at 1:03 PM
I'd like some time to study this WASM stuff.  But it sounds interesting.  We should get the community talking about it and gauge interest.
terra-pescado - Yesterday at 1:03 PM 
This is what I have been reading in regards to the foundation discussion.(edited)
Wild Apricot Blog
6 Steps to Start a Nonprofit the Right Way and Get Your First Payi...
Free resources and checklists: Here's exactly what you need to know about how to start a nonprofit in today's world and get your first paying members.
limax - Yesterday at 1:04 PM
@terra-pescado This we (like me and you :smile: ) can continue discussing about(edited)
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 1:04 PM
Definitely. We can all work together towards the community management. Get everybody familirize with the upcoming fork and get the support.
terra-pescado - Yesterday at 1:05 PM
This is my personal priority list:
1. Create t-shirts 
2. Order more stickers
3. Create keychain
4. Work on foundation setup with limax
Towd - Yesterday at 1:06 PM
@terra-pescado Keep me posted.
limax - Yesterday at 1:06 PM
I want to ask if anyone have something to comment about the current campaign started by @sc0rp1on
If you are ok with sharing that on telegram too
Towd - Yesterday at 1:09 PM
Personally, I think its very cool.  Cross promotional stuff is effective and fun.  And can help both projects.
limax - Yesterday at 1:09 PM
That was my point also
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 1:10 PM
Just so you know we have changed the draw to weekly since we didn't receive any response today.
I think people still dont know about it. There is 30K+ Ella bought in last 24 hours.
terra-pescado - Yesterday at 1:11 PM
I'll buy 500 right now if I'll be the only entry :p
limax - Yesterday at 1:12 PM
And this is another thing to consider, that's why I think is fair to let our telegram side to know about
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 1:12 PM
Haha, you will be the only one but we changed it to weekly now
limax - Yesterday at 1:13 PM
terra-pescado - Yesterday at 1:13 PM
Is it posted on Twitter?
limax - Yesterday at 1:13 PM
I think you should post in #telegram at the end of this meeting(edited)
ellaismer - Yesterday at 1:14 PM
I can retweet if there's a post already, but I just suggest we call it "giveaway" instead of "airdrop" to avoid any confusion.
terra-pescado - Yesterday at 1:14 PM
Or contest
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 1:15 PM
Yes, we can create a tweet for it
limax - Yesterday at 1:16 PM
Ok with giveaway is even better
You can edit the message here
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 1:17 PM
I will get a graphic made cuz of low characters on twitter. Will tweet by tomorrow
limax - Yesterday at 1:18 PM
Next, @Nulligun I saw that the wiki subproject is now on github.
We can start to put md files?
Nulligun - Yesterday at 1:19 PM
Yep it should be ready later today.  If you edit the main wiki, a webhook will trigger and regenerate the static pages at    Just making some final tweaks.
Ellaism Wiki - Ellaism
Welcome to the meta wiki!
And since it's served with GitHub Pages,  that will let us pull content from the static pages with javascript and have it appear on other sites.
limax - Yesterday at 1:21 PM
Ok, we can work together on the structure and after that we can collect first the informations from the website
We can  use for the start categories from the website
ellaismer - Yesterday at 1:23 PM
limax - Yesterday at 1:24 PM
also we will have at some point I presume
ellaismer - Yesterday at 1:24 PM
Yeah I'll get the trigger and the domain done really soon.
limax - Yesterday at 1:25 PM
The only problem I see for now is how we will manage to keep the same info on webpage and wiki for some parts
Nulligun - Yesterday at 1:26 PM
The mining pool page for instance, we can have the list of pools pulled from the wiki with some javascript.
limax - Yesterday at 1:26 PM
We need to split some md files on the webpage(edited)
Yes @Nulligun we should really think about a good way to provide all kind of info from the wiki in order to help  @kubu00 also with his work on EllaBot
At one point he can pull a lot of info in one command
ellaismer - Yesterday at 1:32 PM
I don't have any good idea on that as well, but if we cannot figure out a good solution now, maybe let's continue the discussion on #website-development.
And one last thing I want to discuss is the testnet:

1. I propose we enable WebAssembly on testnet recently, so we can test out whether it works well for us, and gather confidence if we carry out a WebAssembly hard fork on mainnet.
2. We need more signers. I remember @psdev once posted that he's interested. And if there's anyone else, please post a message at and I'll get information on setting up the authority and carrying out testnet hard fork soon. One important requirement is that you're able to host a node that's always online.
Shikinseki Testnet · Issue #29 · ellaism/meta
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 1:35 PM
I agree with both
limax - Yesterday at 1:36 PM
Ok, I have some nodes if needed
And I can provide more
terra-pescado - Yesterday at 1:36 PM
Can a node be hosted on a mining rig?
ellaismer - Yesterday at 1:37 PM
@limax Let's have at most one authority node per party/person. It's about decentralization so having more don't benefit.(edited)
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 1:37 PM
I think he meant about the testnet
limax - Yesterday at 1:37 PM
@ellaismer I can provide like give access :smile: (to the vm's)(edited)
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 1:38 PM
I can provide node if required too. Can setup om vultr. Costs about 5usd so not an issue. However, I can only do it after 6th
ellaismer - Yesterday at 1:38 PM
I understand, but it's always better if the person can host it themselves, because you will need to generate a private key in this process.(edited)
limax - Yesterday at 1:38 PM
Ok, understand
ellaismer - Yesterday at 1:39 PM
Okay, so we have @psdev @sc0rp1on and @limax for now. I'll get the instructions soon. Note that this requires a hard fork on testnet.
If there're more people interested, please just PM me or post a comment on the link above.
@terra-pescado I don't think mining rig would work. You need an always online server or something like that.
terra-pescado - Yesterday at 1:40 PM
ellaismer - Yesterday at 1:41 PM
And I guess that's all. Last chance if you still have additional stuff to discuss. :smiley:
sc0rp1on - Yesterday at 1:42 PM
That's all, except we need to put the tentative timelines IMO
psdev - Yesterday at 1:43 PM
looking forward to testnet fork
ellaismer - Yesterday at 1:43 PM
@here And don't forget to post items you want to discuss for the next meeting here:
If nothing else, I guess this is the end!